Storage updates and much more ?

[David13]

Hi my phone stopped updating my apps saying it did not have enough main memory storage space. I went to the app management and removed some apps. When the phone apps are updated it seems to still rely on my main memory but I am not certain ? I assumed all update space taken for instance was placed on the SD card not the main memory. I am beginning to think that the SD card only allows the actual installation of the application only. However I seem to have lots of main memory left but it seems only a small portion gets applied/allocated for my apps. So even though I have main memory space left I cannot use it ? I want to some how utilise my SD card much better and the main memory too. If worst comes to worse I will have to stop the updates to my phone for some apps. I thought that would create a security risk if any of my apps were not up to date though.

What am I doing wrong ? I am new to android and am a bit baffled. In terms of the above information I am not sure if I am correct in what I am saying ? I sincerely hope I am wrong or that I can alter what is going on in some way to sort it out.

What I want to achieve is the updates going to my SD card, to have the ability to move some apps to my SD card which appear not too (not mentioned above) , remove any problems with updating due to the above issues.

Many thanks and please ask a number of questions if you need to understand anything I have written. I am no techie. Thanks.

 

[Hadron]

Can you tell us a bit more about your phone: model and OS version, for example, and anything you can about the storage partitions on the device? It would help to know what we are dealing with if we are to straighten this out.

Modern android phones generally have a single internal storage partition for apps, data and media. This "internal storage" is also called SDcard by the phone's OS. If the device has a removable card as well this will have a different name (which can vary a bit). This is why people talk about an "external sdcard" when they mean the real, removable one. Most modern (android 4 or later) phones also cannot move apps to the external card at all, though some manufacturers retained or added back that feature after Google removed it. It's easy to tell: Settings > Apps > Downloaded, look at some of your apps, and see whether they have a "move to SD" button (which may be greyed-out if the developer doesn't support moving). If you don't have it, your phone does not support it.

Some phones which started out with older OS versions have something more like the old android 2 storage setup, with separate internal spaces for apps/data and media (the latter may be called "sdcard"). This is why I asked if you can give us more detail about your setup, as these things are not the same in all phones. Some of the things you say make me wonder whether you have this type of setup.

As I said, most phones these days don't have a "move to sd" option, but I'm guessing that you do from your post. This can only move some apps, and when it does it only moves part of the app (and none of the app data). If you move an app to SD the parts of it that are moved should also move when you update it, but I could imagine it temporarily using internal space during installation (and of course the elements which don't move will use internal space).

 

[David13]

Wow thats really helpful thank you. Being a bit new to the android world and the linux based system I do get a bit confused still though. Oddly I shouldn't as Linux based ops can often be better than say Windows mobile ops.

Just to clarify therefore I do have an SD card portion in file manager - One says Internal and you can switch tabs to the other which says SD card basically. Now from what I understood above your saying the SD card tab in file manager is not actually the TRUE SD card but in fact still the internal memory ?

In my phone storage i have a Default storage location set as SD card too. It does ask me to mount and unmount also there. And it has different colours for the different sections of storage Apps , pictures and video etc etc.

As far as I can tell my phone has access to just the external SD card I slotted into it beyond the internal storage.

The phone is Huawei Ascend Y300 and started with Android 4 but I upgraded to the latest Android version about 3 months ago. It says 4.1.1 now in the Android version section. I occasionally get problems with Android apps stopping if I use them them at a very quick pace. That could be the memory issue I talked about.

I do have the "move to SD card" ability in settings via the button you talked about in settings.

I am not sure whether the updates are going to the internal or external SD card memory. This means my second paragraph above is an important question probably in terms of where to find the updates and whether there internal/external.

I am fearing i have bought the wrong phone as it was a lower end "new model" 1 year ago. But it was still a "good quality" android phone. I bought it at

 

[lunatic59]

There's a bit more explanation about the sdcard partition in http://androidforums.com/android-lounge/852209-sd-card-help.html#post6599510.

The Huawei Ascend Y300 has only 4 GB internal storage and 512 MB ram, so yeah, you will have to be diligent about keeping your memory requirements lean. One of the things you might want to look at if you get low memory warnings are the size of your mail and messaging databases. There are kept in the system area and can bloat up fairly quickly if you sent a lot of texts with media attached (MMS) or have email set up as POP3.

You can also go to menu>settings>applications and select the all tab and list them according to size. Many times a quick cache cleaning will free up a good chunk of memory. Be advised you want to clear the cache and NOT the data for the app.

 

[David13]

High I read your link lunatic59. Its interesting what is said by one participant also about where the application bits go. One part as the 'head' has to be initially on the phone so it can point to the 'body' of the app on the SD card. What folder in the file manager shows me the applications 'head' so i can see how many resources are used for that part ? The SD card is less relevant since it has 16 GB of storage so I would not really need to look at the 'body' of the application unless I can work it out from there somehow.

A follow up answer from Hadron would be helpful to me if he/she has time to come back.

I'd be interested to know if there is anything else I can do about freeing up space. The biggest pain is there are Google apps like there keyboard , music and other things I never use but the phone wont let me remove the factory set apps. Also how much of the files can I shift onto the sd card that exist internally without moving system or 'head' pointers to the external SD cards. I have copied over all of my PDFS now from internal to external but wondered what else I can get away with. If there are some really cool ideas to solve my problems I'd be interested in them.

I should add I have done as lunatic59 stated setting my text messages to keep much less and set my Gmail to only keep 3 days worth on it. With doing all the above mentioned I have freed up about 115 MB for my applications segment. That leaves 1/4 app space for me now. That should fill quickly though if the updates fill the memory. Do the settings changes on email/messages delete old folder messages as well ?

Perhaps one more app can change the operating system a bit ? Probably a disallowed thing mind.

Many thanks.

 

[Hadron]

It may depend on the setup for your particular phone. On most recent phones the partition it calls "/sdcard" is internal, but what your file manager is calling "sd card" may well be the real thing (actually I suspect so - a directory called "internal" is unusual, and suggests that your file manager is making the distinction). An easy way to check would be to see how large the thing it calls "sdcard" is - your removable card is 4* the size of your internal storage, so if "sdcard" is < 4 GB it's internal, if > 4 GB it must be the actual card.

You would probably need to root the phone to look at all part of apps. For example, try looking in /data/app - that's where the .apk files (app installers) go, but without root my guess is that you won't be able to look there. If your file manager doesn't offer the option, try installing ES File Explorer, then go up to "/" (the linux root directory) and you should see /data from there.

(Rooting means gaining administrator access - requires hacking the phone software, and precise procedures vary between phones, sometimes between OS releases).

Pre-installed apps are less of a pain than you think. They are installed in a separate storage partition, called /system, so are not using the space that your own apps use. Updates to them do however, and app data use internal space. So if there is a system app you are certain you won't use, you could go to Settings > Apps > All, select the app, "uninstall updates" if that option is available, clear data (to save space) then disable (again, if available). If it lets you do all of those then you've gained as much space as you would by uninstalling the app.

The reason they don't let people remove pre-installed apps is to avoid having to deal with people breaking their phones by removing stuff they thought was unimportant but turned out not to be (don't be fooled by the name "factory reset", all that does is erase user-installed apps, data and settings - it doesn't restore anything that's been removed). Again, you can remove such stuff if you root the phone, but that's entirely at your own risk (many manufacturers and carriers will consider the warranty void if you do).

 

[lunatic59]

If you are considering rooting and Hadron's caution wasn't dire enough to make an impression ...Many apps provide services for other parts of the OS and if you remove them, you can disable certain features or make your phone unusable. More importantly, system apps are not easily restorable like simply installing an .apk file. And once deleted, even a factory reset will not recover them. You will have to locate and flash a stock rom image to get them back. If you plan on rooting and deleting those apps, please check back here first before you do anything so we can make sure it's safe for you to delete those without any negative impact to your phone.

 

[David13]

Okay thanks for the help. I think my best solution is to perhaps uninstall anything I probably wont use. I wont root the phone. I have FORCE STOP , UNINSTALL UPDATES and CLEAR DATA available in individual app information. I assume force stop stops all upcoming updates and Uninstall updates uninstalls ALL. Does CLEAR DATA remove all files ? I plan to update those I use of of course. Will security be okay on the phone as long as I "FORCE STOP" or do I need to "clear all data" as well as "stop updates" too ?

Many thanks for the help.

 

[lunatic59]

Okay thanks for the help. I think my best solution is to perhaps uninstall anything I probably wont use. I wont root the phone. I have FORCE STOP , UNINSTALL UPDATES and CLEAR DATA available in individual app information. I assume force stop stops all upcoming updates and Uninstall updates uninstalls ALL. Does CLEAR DATA remove all files ? I plan to update those I use of of course. Will security be okay on the phone as long as I "FORCE STOP" or do I need to "clear all data" as well as "stop updates" too ?

Many thanks for the help.

Force stop will only stop the running processes for that app (if there are any) and will not free any ram. This is used to kill apps that are frozen or misbehaving. If you force stop an app it doesn't disable it permanently and can easily start again. I wouldn't use it at all if possible.

Clear data removes any user data and sets the app back to the state it was when you first installed it. Anything you saved through the app like logins or bookmarks will be lost. Uninstall updates does exactly what it says, but this could free up some space for you. Just be aware that the play store will continue to nag you about updates for the app unless you uninstall it completely or disable it.

There are no additional security concerns with clearing caches, data or updates, so I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[David13]

Hi thanks for the helpful posts.

If I use an app regularly but don't update it can this cause problems - eg for both phone operation and security issues perhaps ? Note before you'd answered for a 'not in use' app. not an active 'in use app'. I have noticed space become available which is good so far.

Can you tell me if I can use something to find out if one app is causing a slow phone operation. eg- My keyboard often cannot catch up with the typing and crashes. Luckily I can go back and it picks up where it has left off. Also I do get problems with settings on my calendar crashing with the Google calendar app (not the android system calendar I note ).

My theory is the external SD card warnings about apps not working as well sometimes is causing the above to happen.

Thanks so much for your help.

 

[lunatic59]

Hi thanks for the helpful posts.

If I use an app regularly but don't update it can this cause problems - eg for both phone operation and security issues perhaps ?

I would say that is the app works fine now, then not updating shouldn't cause a problem. The vast majority of updates are to accommodate new devices or add new features. You should read what the update entails, however, to see if addresses a bug or security hole. One thing that might save you a little space is if there is an app that requires an update, remove it from your phone and then reinstall it from the play store. The play store will push the latest version so there technically won't be any updates.

Can you tell me if I can use something to find out if one app is causing a slow phone operation. eg- My keyboard often cannot catch up with the typing and crashes. Luckily I can go back and it picks up where it has left off. Also I do get problems with settings on my calendar crashing with the Google calendar app (not the android system calendar I note ).

Slow phone operation can point to several things. One would be a slow phone. Older or cheap phones trying to run intensive current apps -- games especially -- can lag like a camel dragging a battleship through the desert. You could also have a bad data connection and if the app requires sync, it will wait for that to happen.

My theory is the external SD card warnings about apps not working as well sometimes is causing the above to happen.

Thanks so much for your help.

App crashes and buggy behavior can be an indicator of a failing SD card, especially if the apps in question are running from the SD card. Try removing the SD card or getting a new one and see if that helps at all.

 

[David13]

Can I finish with a question about running apps and authenticators ?

I have running apps like contacts and text messaging by default. I dont see why I need them running if I'm not using them. So I removed them and my hotmail email app i no longer use. They come back on reboot though which is not a disaster as most of us don't restart phones more than every 3 weeks. A way round this would be gratefully excepted though.

Also I have the Google app authenticator which is used for things like secondary authentication on signing into gmail and several other things actually. It is a long term solution for me as I believe that passwords in 10 years time will no longer be secure without this anyway so might as well get used to it. Will this cause a lag on my phone and how would I check if it constantly runs in the background ? They have revolving numbers every thirty seconds but I am unsure if that includes when the app is 'up and being used' only or if its constantly happening in the background.

Also of greater importance - I set Google play to 'not automatically update' but to inform me now instead. To look at what it is about to update with do I look in Google play where it says 'Whats new for this app'. I have a feeling it not the actual update information but just what is new. I cannot seem to work out where else to find this information ?

I cannot think of any other memory or RAM usage on my phone that I should be aware of unless you haven't covered them with me.

I'll thank the posts at the end of all this thread when the time comes as you both have been very helpful indeed.

Thanks !

 

[David13]

My apologies if I have asked a little to many questions here. It is probably likely that only so much time can be given to people on a large forum. This I will respect from here on. If just some of the last post above could be answered then I will conclude now in asking further. I can see that certain things can go on forever otherwise and do appreciate that and your time as well. If you've both been away for a while then I'll wait for the conclusion of this thread. I thanked the above answers. Please do tell me if you think it went off topic - I saw it as interrelated.

Thank you

 

[lunatic59]

Sorry, didn't see this until just now.

I have running apps like contacts and text messaging by default. I don't see why I need them running if I'm not using them. So I removed them and my hotmail email app i no longer use. They come back on reboot though which is not a disaster as most of us don't restart phones more than every 3 weeks. A way round this would be gratefully excepted though.

What you did was flush them from the phone's ram. It won't clear any space and Android will simply reload them as needed or load something else in it's place. You won't gain any benefit from this practice (also known as task killing ... Why You Don't Need a Task Killer.) Android is a compact mobile OS and many common services are shared by one app, which while you didn't specifically launch it, Android will show it as "running". This is a misnomer as most of the time it is simply a cached process that consumes no resources other than the tiny amount of power needed to hold it in ram. The more you try to out think Androids memory management, the more frustrated you will be.

Also I have the Google app authenticator ... Will this cause a lag on my phone and how would I check if it constantly runs in the background ?

I would expect that the only time you'll see any effect of this app running is at the time of authentication. If you ave a slow or weak network connection you'll see some lag, but i doubt it will consume so many resources that your phone will show any signs of lag. If it does, it mean it's poorly coded and you should find an alternative. I don't use it so I really couldn't tell you. To see what's what, you might try installing Watchdog Lite that can show you more detailed usage statistics.

Also of greater importance - I set Google play to 'not automatically update' but to inform me now instead. To look at what it is about to update with do I look in Google play where it says 'Whats new for this app'. I have a feeling it not the actual update information but just what is new. I cannot seem to work out where else to find this information ?

I think you would have to contact the developer directly for the complete changelog. The play store will usually provide a dev's email or website. Whether or not they provide that to you is up to them.

 

[David13]

In regard to the updates then are you saying the same as an answer I got from Fox Mulder quote-

When an update for an app is available, there will be a description of the update in the Play store. Because this is supplied by the developer, there may be varying amounts of actual information about what is in the update. Some will be vague (i.e. "bug fixes"), others will list specific fixes and other changes.
Note that updates for most user apps will not take up additional space on the phone as the update replaces the existing version of the app with the new one. So memory usage would increase only if the size of the updated version is larger than the one it is replacing.
System apps may take up more space when they update as they do keep the old version. You can tell which apps do this by looking in their properties under app management, if you see an option to "uninstall updates" it means there is an older version saved in addition to the current updated one.

....I assume this is your viewpoint pretty much on this ? I will try an not ask to many more questions. I've had several that have built up over the last year and half since I've had my android phone. You'll note I only had one thread question prior to this one a long time ago.

Its not possible to know for sure what updates to install if we dont know what they are perhaps. How people determine what to do I assume is go to Google play > find app > look at bug fixes > looks at 'Whats new for this app' section. What actually gets updated is still hard to know as you seem to mention above.

As for the related memory issues discussed -

Huawei gave this in the user manual PDF for memory usage -

How can I free up additional phone memory?
&#8226; Move files and email attachments from your phone memory to your
microSD card. ( as advised here)
&#8226; Open the Browser application, and delete locally cached content. (i new anyway but may have been advised here)
&#8226; Uninstall applications you no longer use. (Advised here)
&#8226; Restore your phone to its factory settings ( not advised here as its a pain no doubt)

Many thanks.