Are android phones really a competition to iPhone ?

[invinciblervd]

I think this question seems similar to a question which arose in people's mind some 5-6 years ago - "Is Linux really a competiotion to Windows ?"
Many people said 'No' at that time, but today it seems like more and more people are turning towards linux for better security and stability.
I feel same would be the case for Android phones.
...So far what Android achieved with 'HTC Hero', the latest android phone out by HTC is to showcase till what level android can be custotmised and made a
fabulous and enriching experience.
Apple's iPhone with its App store, is far better than Android market. With more Apps being released for Android, it is making itself
competitive with the todays Smarphone arena but again with Google's not allowing paid Apps(games) to app store, is holding back many giants releasing
android compatible games/apps.
The one thing that really worries me is the lack of Desktop client for Android phones. We have seen when Apple launched their O.S 3.0,
it brought many new functionalities and features to the existing phone and I was very much impressed with the amount of work that was gone
thru to bring these features to world. And to upgrade the OS 2.0 to 3.0, the existing iPhone users just had to connect their iPhone to iTunes and VOILA !
they were asked if they want to upgrade to OS 3.0. It was so easy to grab so many great features without waiting for their operator to introduce the OS
upgrade to their clients or stand in theose long queues outside shops. As against that, when Android launched their OS 1.5, the Cupcake, many of the G1 users couldn't get hold of it... the reason being lack of a simpler method to do so... Many sites had published how to upgrade the OS to 1.5 but with a note saying - 'Do at your own risk, it may screw up your phone', after reading this, not any generic person would try n follow the instructions but only geeks would do.

So as a final verdict, I feel, If Android wants to reach out to all the common people and compete against iPhone or Pre, they should introduce a simple and rather seamless way to grab the latest features/bug fixes when they are released over the air by Android....

- RD

 

[DanGrover]

Bah, I just wrote out a big reply to this but it didn't post.

In short, a lot of what you've said simply isn't true.

- There ARE paid apps, I have a few myself.
- To get Android updates, you simply have to have some sort of data connection. 2G, 3G, Wifi, whatever - it'll download and prompt you to install it. That's all. No wires, no USB, no iTunes, nothing. It does it all itself.
- The only time you're ever going to be "at risk" when updating your phone is if you want to get a hacked rom early. All G1 handsets got "sent" Cupcake "over the air" just like any other, smaller updates.

 

[noonehereyet]

Bah, I just wrote out a big reply to this but it didn't post.

In short, a lot of what you've said simply isn't true.

- There ARE paid apps, I have a few myself.
- To get Android updates, you simply have to have some sort of data connection. 2G, 3G, Wifi, whatever - it'll download and prompt you to install it. That's all. No wires, no USB, no iTunes, nothing. It does it all itself.
- The only time you're ever going to be "at risk" when updating your phone is if you want to get a hacked rom early. All G1 handsets got "sent" Cupcake "over the air" just like any other, smaller updates.

Agreed... and to be honest the only thing apple has really done is market the features they added which already existed in other phones like android phones better than the competition... if you really take the time compare what was added to what was around with other phones and platforms you'll see exactly what i mean... now im not saying the 3gs is a bad phone i truly like it but when it comes to features and abilities its no better than the competition they just "sell it" better than anyone else....

 

[jco]

Bah, I just wrote out a big reply to this but it didn't post.

I usually skip messages beginning with "Bah", and for obvious reasons. In this case, you obviously ignore most of the rest of the world outside your country.

In short, a lot of what you've said simply isn't true.

- There ARE paid apps, I have a few myself.

Hello no. You just ignore the rest of the world. Many countries, the vast majority, have no paid app at all.

- To get Android updates, you simply have to have some sort of data connection. 2G, 3G, Wifi, whatever - it'll download and prompt you to install it. That's all. No wires, no USB, no iTunes, nothing. It does it all itself.

This one is also not true, see above.

- The only time you're ever going to be "at risk" when updating your phone is if you want to get a hacked rom early. All G1 handsets got "sent" Cupcake "over the air" just like any other, smaller updates.

Don't know about this one. I just know with iPhone connecting to iTunes and upgrading is just the "official" way to do it. With Android, is still something you can do, probably works, but if it doesn't, you're left on your own.

JMTC, jco

 

[DThor]

These sorts of threads tend to degenerate into tedious arguments and flaming(waiting to see if the original poster gets more than a single post here - thus might avoid obvious troll status), but about all I'll say is that for me iphone is literally *unusable*, so I guess the android platform is doing something right. Why?

1. This 'better' Apple app store is locked down tight. I have zero interest in rooting my phone - you need to be constantly tracking things, ensuring your provider won't lock out features, be nervous about bricking it during the process. With android, it's a switch - Install From Anywhere, and suddenly I don't care about rooting my phone anymore. Your needs may vary, I'm a power user but at the same time I can't be bothered with screwing around with my phone to get 'control' - with android it gives me the control I need out of the box. This is even without getting into all the noise about Apple's shutting out of developers and products that's covering the news right now. How you can pick this point in time, particularly, to trumpet how much better the apple app store is, well...odd.

2. IPhone can't multitask, and it's unclear that will every change. I'm logged into work through ssh, phone rings - disconnect? Sorry, I'm out right there.

3. Desktop apps to sync with phone? Don't need it. It's already seamlessly synching with everything I need(various google tools and activesync server) without the hassle of plugging into a computer somewhere and syncing. I'm unclear how that is a better thing.

I hate these sorts of threads, so I'm not really interesting in arguing about it, just pointing out that others might have different priorities than you, and really when it comes down to it - won't the market drive what happens? It's perfectly valid to point out perceived shortcomings, mind you, that's how people get feedback, but the obviously rhetorical aspect of 'can android beat apple' is too provocative for objective discussion IMHO.

DT

 

[noonehereyet]

I usually skip messages beginning with "Bah", and for obvious reasons. In this case, you obviously ignore most of the rest of the world outside your country.



Hello no. You just ignore the rest of the world. Many countries, the vast majority, have no paid app at all.



This one is also not true, see above.



Don't know about this one. I just know with iPhone connecting to iTunes and upgrading is just the "official" way to do it. With Android, is still something you can do, probably works, but if it doesn't, you're left on your own.

JMTC, jco

Well honestly you are wrong while a few countries still do not have paid apps, which is being worked on and if you looked even a little bit you would have seen this app http://market-enabler.googlecode.com/files/MarketEnabler.apk which enables the paid apps and market for the rest of the world!

As for update your wrong again if you are on a legit build you will get your updates OTA, if you are on a rooted build you will have to download and flash but rooted builds are usually MONTHS ahead of the OTA releases and again if you took the time look you would see that there is not only OTA but a repo to d/l and make your own builds and with in a few hours after release of an OTA build a link from google turns up with a downloadable file to do it manually...

So basically do some research before you come and post... if you dont have the answers instead of making a post to controdict or attack you should try asking...

 

[DanGrover]

I usually skip messages beginning with "Bah", and for obvious reasons. In this case, you obviously ignore most of the rest of the world outside your country.

Why do you skip posts which start with "Bah"? My "Bah" was directed not at the post I replied to, but at the server for eating my original reply, which was significantly longer and dealt with a number of the issues you raised, such as...

Hello no. You just ignore the rest of the world. Many countries, the vast majority, have no paid app at all.

I know, and I did acknowledge this in my original post but it failed to post correctly, thus my shortened version. But so what? The OP said:

"but again with Google's not allowing paid Apps(games) to app store, is holding back many giants releasing
android compatible games/apps"

And that's not true. Google do allow paid Apps and Games on the Market Place, even if right now not everyone can access them. I wasn't saying "Hey, the Market place is perfect, I can download all these cool things!" I was simply correcting a factually incorrect statement.

This one is also not true, see above.

What countries do not get OTA updates? That is a genuine question, as I've never heard of that being the case.

Don't know about this one. I just know with iPhone connecting to iTunes and upgrading is just the "official" way to do it. With Android, is still something you can do, probably works, but if it doesn't, you're left on your own.

JMTC, jco

I literally don't know how what you've written here corresponds to what you quoted me saying. All I said was that the only danger from installing an Android update (remember the OP said: "Many sites had published how to upgrade the OS to 1.5 but with a note saying - 'Do at your own risk, it may screw up your phone', after reading this, not any generic person would try n follow the instructions but only geeks would do.") is if you try and get it early by installing a hacked ROM. In this sense, it's no different to the iPhone being jailbroken. If you do it officially, you're safe - if you don't, there's risk involved.

 

[spottyelephant]

I think there's a key point to remember here. And that's about marketing and advertisement. I'd say a good half of my mates now have an iphone cuz they were watching tv one day and a cool app was advertised.

I'd be 99% confident in sayin that only 1 of my mates (who is a fello "techie") has heard of android, and was going to get an android phone, but ended up going for an iphone simply because of that cash cow called the app store which meant something new and exciting was available for his phone every other week.

There's one other point here though apart from general public knowledge about android. And that's useability. With no definitive and easy desktop client available, android immediatly closes its doors to everyone except those "in the know".

I personally think android could have a real chance against the iphone. Nokia may be the largest handset manufacturer, but it's Ovi store is too little too late i feel. It's catering for too many symbian platforms,and too many devices. So developers will never really be able to concentrate their efforts in a money making fashion as with the iphone. The android market has the potential to be the next app store. But only if it's well executed, moderated (prices low, and quality good. And when i say "good quality",think of Nokia's Mosh which just let anyone upload anything), and promoted well. Why don't google put a link to it on the google homepage!?

 

[johnkzin]

Competition between Android and iPhone?

No.

There's way too mean reasons I wouldn't buy an iPhone. Right now, I don't even consider an iPhone to be a contender/option.

Some of the reasons:

1) limited computer options (Windows and Mac only,and they're required for OS updates, IIRC)
2) no physical qwerty keyboard (a requirement)
3) no full screen SSH client (also a requirement)
4) no ability to acquire apps outside of official channels (ie. "Apple App Store only")

 

[topcheffer]

Posts like this make me want to scream at the OP for being an idiot and trying to spread their wisdom and thoughts on a matter they don't have a clue about.
It just goes to show you that the number one thing missing from Android right now is good marketing, which Apple has always had in spades. Google and the OHA need to split the cost and put out some decent ads showcasing Android in general, different phones/options/features/flexibility that will show Jo Schmo on the street that their iPhone really is behind the game.
I truly believe that if Google/OHA does this sort of campaign after the Android Developers Contest 2 ends, they can showcase some exclusivity of the platform and win over the public from Apple overhypes and lies.

BAH, I ranted a little. My original opinion: Throw this post and the rest of the thread in the trash. Its baseless, uninformative, and caustic.

ps...can't there be an Android enthusiast forum/site where you have to pass some basic knowledge test before entering? (oh wait, I feel that way about just about everything in life...hurry up Darwin!)

 

[punkzanyj]

I think there's a key point to remember here. And that's about marketing and advertisement. I'd say a good half of my mates now have an iphone cuz they were watching tv one day and a cool app was advertised.

I find it interesting that they didn't bother using the App store in their marketing until after the Android and New Blackberries were released (also with app stores). It's laughable when they say "only on the iPhone" when in fact, the same app, or one with identical functionality exists on the android market already.

"I'd be 99% confident in sayin that only 1 of my mates (who is a fello "techie") has heard of android, and was going to get an android phone, but ended up going for an iphone simply because of that cash cow called the app store which meant something new and exciting was available for his phone every other week."

There's new stuff on the android market every DAY. Regular apps are updated more often than games, but the android app store gets new apps every few hours it seems. Not every day, but most days if you check in the morning and again in the evening you will see new apps both times, and then again the next morning.

There's one other point here though apart from general public knowledge about android. And that's useability. With no definitive and easy desktop client available, android immediatly closes its doors to everyone except those "in the know".

This doesn't make any sense. People without PCs can get an android phone and get their gmail, calendar, surf the web, download apps from ANYWHERE and even get updates (like cupcake) without ever plugging it into a computer --- this isn't closed off, it's WIDE OPEN. You don't need a desktop client with android, it's all in the cloud, which is where it's all going. Why do you think Windows Office Live(online) and Acrobat Buzz Words(online) got the idea? I had a Windows Mobile phone, and it sucked having to wait till I got home to run an update, and activesync would periodically crap out, not allowing me to update at all. I'd have to delete the "partnership" and wait 20 minutes while it uninstalled and reinstalled all my calendar, contacts, and notes. With Android that happens throughout the day without me lifting a finger. Desktop clients are so very 2001.

I personally think android could have a real chance against the iphone. Nokia may be the largest handset manufacturer, but it's Ovi store is too little too late i feel. It's catering for too many symbian platforms,and too many devices. So developers will never really be able to concentrate their efforts in a money making fashion as with the iphone. The android market has the potential to be the next app store. But only if it's well executed, moderated (prices low, and quality good. And when i say "good quality",think of Nokia's Mosh which just let anyone upload anything), and promoted well. Why don't google put a link to it on the google homepage!?

Because it's not available to the general public. Someone took his own time and money to set up Cyrket, a mirror site, but the Official Android App Market is only available on the phone, which to me makes it more secure for everybody. If you're buying a phone because of the apps, you're an idiot. Seriously, the devs on the iPhone app store are already making the same apps for Android, Blackberry, and everywhere else they can get their foot in the door. That's smart business. And if the original dev isn't porting the app to Android, BB, and the rest --- you can bet someone else will make an app with identical functionality, possibly better. It doesn't take a genius to know that if your product is available all over the place, you stand a better chance of making more money and having a higher market share than your competition.

 

[Clackamas]

I haven't read everyone's reply, so please for give me if I am re-iterating others.

From a practical point of view, Apple and Google's Business models are very different. And this is apparent in how Android is being used to attack the market place vs. Apple.

Apple is, at this point, a hardware and services company that caters to the affluent. hip and hassle free. This standing allows them to both justify and maintain a high degree of control over their offerings. Look at the latest press that has been received regarding Google's soon to be released Google Voice and the AT&T/Apple position: Apple and AT&T don't want you to have the service. In fact, they don't want you do anything for yourself -- they want you buy everything through their approved process.

Google is really just services company that has on occasion sold hardware (their original serach project was hardware+software for example). They capitalized on the search engine success and then expanded. They were able to do so because there emphasis on service. They are able, for example, to offer target advertising that the is unrivaled. Now, we have Android which is designed to be used not only on phones but other light weight devices such as netbooks. And, low and behold, the App Market has a much wider application than Apples.

Also, if you note, T-mobile (at least in the US compared to other carries) have embraced the Open platform ideas which allows you to have such services as Google Voice is you want it. They also make it incredibly easy for companies to provide apps either free or paid. Google clearly has plans to benefit consumer and business alike.

 

[spottyelephant]

I find it interesting that they didn't bother using the App store in their marketing until after the Android and New Blackberries were released (also with app stores). It's laughable when they say "only on the iPhone" when in fact, the same app, or one with identical functionality exists on the android market already.

Agreed, however i don't have my android phone yet, so i'm unfamiliar with what's available on the market. My point is that the app "cab4me" is on the iphone (albeit with a different name) and advertised on tv, while the only way i found out that it was on android was by finding it in the list for the adc1 competition.

There's new stuff on the android market every DAY. Regular apps are updated more often than games, but the android app store gets new apps every few hours it seems. Not every day, but most days if you check in the morning and again in the evening you will see new apps both times, and then again the next morning..

Didn't know this. That's cool!

This doesn't make any sense. People without PCs can get an android phone and get their gmail, calendar, surf the web, download apps from ANYWHERE and even get updates (like cupcake) without ever plugging it into a computer --- this isn't closed off, it's WIDE OPEN. You don't need a desktop client with android, it's all in the cloud, which is where it's all going. Why do you think Windows Office Live(online) and Acrobat Buzz Words(online) got the idea? I had a Windows Mobile phone, and it sucked having to wait till I got home to run an update, and activesync would periodically crap out, not allowing me to update at all. I'd have to delete the "partnership" and wait 20 minutes while it uninstalled and reinstalled all my calendar, contacts, and notes. With Android that happens throughout the day without me lifting a finger. Desktop clients are so very 2001.

I should have explained that this is more for multimedia or other things of the like. There's no denying that itunes and nokia pc suite are two very well implemented pieces of software. Even if someone doesn't plan on needing this for any reason its nice to know that you can hook up, and be sure that some pretty wizard is ready to help you transfer your music. Obv no one in here would need that, but to reach "normal" people, it would just be good to be able to offer a good desktop client.

Also, can yuo just clarify whether that over-the-air updating is available in all countries, or just the US at the mo?

Because it's not available to the general public. Someone took his own time and money to set up Cyrket, a mirror site, but the Official Android App Market is only available on the phone, which to me makes it more secure for everybody. If you're buying a phone because of the apps, you're an idiot. Seriously, the devs on the iPhone app store are already making the same apps for Android, Blackberry, and everywhere else they can get their foot in the door. That's smart business. And if the original dev isn't porting the app to Android, BB, and the rest --- you can bet someone else will make an app with identical functionality, possibly better. It doesn't take a genius to know that if your product is available all over the place, you stand a better chance of making more money and having a higher market share than your competition.

You sound like you're giving out to ME, when i'm defending the android market and have decided to get an android phone! Android is indeed growing more traction with Developers, and it's kinda "cool" to develop for it (unlike say windows mobile).

Out of boredom the other day i emailed the developers of iDaft, JSMS, and Enigmo (three of my favourite things on my laptop / friends iphones) to enquire if they were planning to port to android and the guy from iDaft promised he'd get started on it, the guy from JSMS said he'd already started and offered me to be a beta tester, and the Engimo dev said he thought another company was on the case. You can't get a better attitude to a platform than that! Legends, the lot of them.

 

[punkzanyj]

Also, can yuo just clarify whether that over-the-air updating is available in all countries, or just the US at the mo?

As far as I know, the OTA updates are everywhere. I believe google pushes them to the carriers who push them out to customers.

The only catch that I've heard about is if you root. If you root and install a modded ROM, then you get taken off the map, so to speak, for OTA updates. So those folks have to wait for someone to make an updated ROM. That's what happened with Cupcake, only they were actually ahead of the update by several months. I haven't found a reason to root, and the vids I've seen of rooted phones seem cool, except they run slower because of all the root-specific goodies people get

 

[Jayziac]

I'm thinking of getting unlocked android phone and using t-mobile prepaid & free wi-fi. Will android updates be OTA for me too or do I need to download them from a specific site and install them manually? and if something goes wrong, am I out of luck?

 

[spottyelephant]

As far as I know, the OTA updates are everywhere. I believe google pushes them to the carriers who push them out to customers.

Ah. Crap. Well there's no news of any carriers in ireland taking it on so i was just gonna get it sim free from uk or somewhere. Sure, computer updates are no real hassle i s'pose.

 

[noonehereyet]

Ah. Crap. Well there's no news of any carriers in ireland taking it on so i was just gonna get it sim free from uk or somewhere. Sure, computer updates are no real hassle i s'pose.

They are extremely easy to do... and you can download them from here: OTA / Un-Root / Official Builds - GetYourDroidOn usually 24 - 48 hours after the official release all though we have been known to get them earlier

 

[Brian]

why argue over whos better? i chose android for many reasons:
1: being raised in an ibm family ive been conditioned to dislike apple, ill call it formatism (like racism for formats)
2: lag problems are mostly hardware related and with competition both sides are forced to release better products which benefits everyone
3: gotta love the hardware keyboard
4: apple makes bad marketing decisions like the fiasco with adobe flash integration
5: apple products are designed to fail

i dont see apple letting anyone else in on the pie whereas android is making its rounds through several markets from netbooks to several phone manufacturers and carriers.

 

[james1808]

Lol "formatism" heheh If that's what its called I may have that! I cant stand Apple computers or the i phone, and i have given them a chance I find them all too restrictive Its like been part of a dictatorship.