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Ayn Rand.
- Thread starter Snow_Fox
- Start date
C
CaptainBeaky
Guest
Or you could always try reading the book, then reading as many other books on the subject as you can find by a variety of authors, then thinking it out for yourself.
Oh, and read the serious newspapers and current affairs websites, making an effort to spread your reading across the political spectrum of news outlets.
(NB This option will involve some effort on your part.)
Oh, and read the serious newspapers and current affairs websites, making an effort to spread your reading across the political spectrum of news outlets.
(NB This option will involve some effort on your part.)
JimmyRayBob
Android Enthusiast
Have you ever picked up a copy of Atlas Shrugged? I did once. Very small typeface, and about a million pages long if i recall.
(nook book price at Barnes and Noble - $18.99. paperback $10)
JimmyRayBob
Android Enthusiast
I haven't read the book either ... but i can't believe for a minute that if 1% of our population moved that the government would collapse. American's are much too adaptable and the market would adjust very quickly.
hakr100
Android Expert
I read her more "popular" novels when I was in the 7th grade, eons ago. Her prose is turgid and her ideas are unworkable for any sort of progressive society.
1% of our population pays nearly 40% of the income taxes.
If that 1% moved to another country, the tax revenue hit would be so great that the government would collapse.
Unworkable? So is taxing the rich to death... but that's another story isn't it.
Have you ever thought about what would happen if that 1% moved to another nation?
Snow_Fox
Android Expert
Lol.
Well first.
Let me say that I think even Ayn Rand herself would probably be disturbed if anyone based their entire political belief system off of her.
While I do agree with a lot of the quotes or idea's I've read.
I have been on these forums quite a while and I'm hoping at least some of you know me well enough to know I wouldn't base my political beliefs off of a book I haven't read yet.
With that said, when are politics anything besides nonsense?
Well first.
Let me say that I think even Ayn Rand herself would probably be disturbed if anyone based their entire political belief system off of her.
While I do agree with a lot of the quotes or idea's I've read.
I have been on these forums quite a while and I'm hoping at least some of you know me well enough to know I wouldn't base my political beliefs off of a book I haven't read yet.
With that said, when are politics anything besides nonsense?
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
hakr100
Android Expert
Taxing the rich to death?
In this country?
You've got to be kidding.
The federal tax bite in this country is among the lowest among western nations.
I see this everywhere I go. People who've not read the book nor able to understand its message without doing so, hating it.
The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged are two perspectives on the same essay. In the first, the individual is examined with respect to accountability for his own actions with respect to his own personal little stake in the world. In the second, the individual is examined with respect to his place in a larger society and what the repercussions are for taking responsibility for one's own actions.
Atlas Shrugged, unlike the Fountainhead, stands on its own a socio-political essay but it's not about moving to Canada - it's about the consequences for believing that all morality is subjective and subject to vote (ala the pigs in Animal Farm) as opposed to something that can and should be held to a clear objective standard.
This philosophy of self within society is not unlike the overarching ideals that westerners associate as Confucianism (and I prolly shouldn't have said that, if you've not studied one, you've prolly not studied the other) - in that the ideals of behavior for the individual as well as the whole society can be objectively codified.
This is called Objectivism.
There are no sound bites, Cliff's Notes, wiki entries or substitutes for reading the book that defines it - it's the one and only way to fully understand the subject at all.
Everyone I've met who've read it all the way through agree - as do I - that her stiff writing style may lack in some ways, but the subject matter simply overcomes that, and that makes for a case where the reader has to meet the author half-way.
Anyone taking a shortcut before deciding to like it or not is simply posing.
Learning to speak a foreign language in a day is about as realistic as understanding Objectivism without reading the book, fully.
I am John Galt.
The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged are two perspectives on the same essay. In the first, the individual is examined with respect to accountability for his own actions with respect to his own personal little stake in the world. In the second, the individual is examined with respect to his place in a larger society and what the repercussions are for taking responsibility for one's own actions.
Atlas Shrugged, unlike the Fountainhead, stands on its own a socio-political essay but it's not about moving to Canada - it's about the consequences for believing that all morality is subjective and subject to vote (ala the pigs in Animal Farm) as opposed to something that can and should be held to a clear objective standard.
This philosophy of self within society is not unlike the overarching ideals that westerners associate as Confucianism (and I prolly shouldn't have said that, if you've not studied one, you've prolly not studied the other) - in that the ideals of behavior for the individual as well as the whole society can be objectively codified.
This is called Objectivism.
There are no sound bites, Cliff's Notes, wiki entries or substitutes for reading the book that defines it - it's the one and only way to fully understand the subject at all.
Everyone I've met who've read it all the way through agree - as do I - that her stiff writing style may lack in some ways, but the subject matter simply overcomes that, and that makes for a case where the reader has to meet the author half-way.
Anyone taking a shortcut before deciding to like it or not is simply posing.
Learning to speak a foreign language in a day is about as realistic as understanding Objectivism without reading the book, fully.
I am John Galt.
If the rich in this country were taxed at the same rate as I am and close their tax loop holes/shelters,then I would be satisfied because enough revenue would be raised, then ave.working people wouldn't have to make up for carrying their sorry asses for what they don't pay, but should.
progressive...
hahahahahahahahaaahahaaaaaaaaaaaa <breath> hahahahahhhahahahaahahaaaahahahahahahahaha
Well, that is where the money is. The fact of the matter is that since the 70s, wages have stagnated except for the top few percent of earners.
Really, one of the most successful elements of the modern conservative movement has been to convince a large slice of Americans that what is good for the rich is good for them, all evidence to the contrary.
By the way, I certainly wouldn't mind if the richest 1% moved out of the US. If nothing else, it would mean a new set of people would own Congress.
OP, instead of reading an act of fiction please try one that is not. A book on theory and examples of fiscal and monetary policy. After studying free market economics for several years I view life in a much different way than the public indoctrination system has taught me. I recommend reading Economics in one lesson and Human Action. You can get free copies from the Mises institute. http://www.hacer.org/pdf/Hazlitt00.pdf and mises.org/books/humanaction.pdf
Snow_Fox
Android Expert
I've read more than enough non fiction books to satisfy my economic beliefs thank you very much.
While I was joking about Basing my political beliefs off of the book before I read it, I don't deny that after reading many of her quotes there is a lot in there that I do relate to on a logical level.
I in many times due to dyslexia have a bit of trouble expressing myself. So I tend to love when I find other people who have similar beliefs/idea's and express them with such ease.
@Earlymon
Wonderful post. I only hope that others may take the time to read your post and possibly the book as well.
I may try to tackle the book soon.. although it is daunting.
I am hoping if I bite the bullet tomorrow I can put a dent in it and maybe finish it before school starts soon.
It would also mean that you would have half the funding for government programs. Let me put it to you this way... In 10 years, that wouldn't be enough to fund medicare and Social Security together, by themselves.
The government would fall apart, but sure... if you would rather spout rhetoric and ignore that fact, be my guest.
Only 4 countries have tax structures that are more progressive than ours...
Australia, Ireland, and the Netherlands.
For the rest, the rich pay lower taxes compared to what the poor pay.
Growing unequal?: income ... - Google Books
So, yes... taxed to death.
Let me put it to you this way... One of the hallmarks of banana republics has traditionally been huge discrepancies between the rich and the poor. And that discrepancy turns into a permanent class division, where the rich use their power to keep the poorer classes out of power.
By the way, you seem to have a bit to learn about how Social Security is funded. There is a cap on how much an individual is taxed (6.2% of the first $106,800 in income). That hits people with less income harder than it does the poor, so losing the top 1% wouldn't hurt much. Medicare would be hit harder since there is no medicare cap.
And, if I may ask, how exactly are the rich using their power to keep the poor poor?
You seem to have a bit to learn about Social Security projections.
Within a few years the Social Security tax will be insufficient to fund Social Security. This means that money from the General Fund will be required to continue funding social security. That General Fund where 1% of the population pays 40% of the taxes...
Thinking about how I MIGHT be right would have saved you that embarrassment, instead of trying to make me wrong.