Discussion on Forum Rules (moved from Evo Section)

[DaSchmarotzer]

Before anyone asks, yes, I just read this entire thread. I'll quote a few snippets from you Internetpilot, so I can chime in. I know that quoting you out of context isn't exactly the best way to go, but it seemed like the best option in this case.

Criticizing or attacking someone's ideas is rude and disrespectful, both of which are violations of the posted forum rules, and should fall under immediate action under the Zero Tolerance Policy.

I simply disagree. If we can't attack ideas, then what exactly are we doing here? Sure, we're sharing information, but we're also discussing a lot of things and attacking ideas is the way to go when it comes to a good discussion/debate. We certainly won't allow the users to attack each other directly: calling the authorities isn't something we'd like to do.

That's where the problem stands. We enforce the rules as we see fit, we are "allowed" to use our best judgment and common sense, something really hard to define as we proceed by a case by case basis and let's not forget human error. That's why we're allowed to the moderator's discretion, you should know what I mean as you've handled forums yourself.

Just like when a post is reported. Sometimes we simply don't act at all, since the user's opinion isn't like ours. We don't think any action was required, even though the user obviously felt a different way since he reported the post. You say you felt attacked by the original statement, which was:

This is such a dumb statement. The 3D capability negates nothing. It doesn't (...)

You replied in a not so polite manner, act in which I don't see much logic since you were offended by the first comment. So in your opinion you were actually defending yourself, aka insulting the other. Anyway, EarlyMon simply asked for you two to "shake hands" and move along, which wasn't respected. After that, he added "Stop. Now." to make sure the message was clear. I would have said something like "Seriously, drop it. Nothing good is going to come from this.", which is fairly similar.

Right back at you -- clearly, you understand nothing of what I'm trying to get through to you.

Well, we understand your point, we most certainly do but we don't agree with it. We won't change the way we do things around here just because one person isn't happy with it. We have weigh in the majority, our experiences and knowledge, the rules that are given to us, etc.


As a moderation team, we discuss issues like this together, and since we're running the forums for Rob and Phases, I think our way of doing it is pretty much the way they want it to be.

EarlyMon, you really need to take your own advice and simply move forward.

You can't ask a moderator to do that. You simply can't. We'll always come to an agreement with the user or we'll have the last word, that's the way things go around.

Guess what? Giving infractions still seems to be moot, because the same Senior Members are still not following your posted rules, and new members still seem to be the common targets.

I could give you many names on the top of my head, but we've lost quite a few Senior members. By "lost" I mean "banned".

I apologize for raising this issue again when the thread has moved on to being more on-topic. I had not planned on responding at all until I noticed my username specifically mentioned in your post, and...once again...I find myself coming to my own defense on the AndroidForums.

We're actually trying to have a discussion here. It would be much easier for us to just lock the thread and post "Thread locked". That's probably what will happen if the discussion goes nowhere. If you don't like what we're trying to accomplish, then I'm sorry for wasting your time (and mine!).

In fact, if the rules and policies of this forum are open to the interpretation by anyone (both for enforcement and for adherence) then they're completely worthless serve no purpose.

I respectfully disagree. Since most of the sentences posted are different, we have to allow interpretation. It's a case by case basis, it's been said before.

Very true, but I think it's better to err on the side of caution. I think it would be better for this forum to be notoriously strict than notoriously abusive.

I understand and I agree to a certain point. We don't want to be too strict or too lenient. I think the middle ground on which we stand is good (if that wasn't my opinion, I would be trying to change it). We're always open to suggestions but it's impossible for everybody to be happy with the "rules".

My problem is with your moderation methods -- that is where my only current problem begins and ends.

I'll assume that you are talking to the whole moderation team and not simply to EarlyMon. What exactly would you like us to change? Not the general idea, the real deal which we will apply or not. We get "be more lenient" requests all the time. Same goes for the other way around. We were chosen to help moderate the forum and we do it for the benefits of the majority.


Sorry if my post wasn't really structured. I hope you don't feel attacked; I wasn't trying to be rude or anything. Feel free to reply or not.

 

[Kelmar]

Great....here's comes the big grey area of interpretation creeping back into the black/white issue of enforcing a Zero Tolerance Policy.

And just when things were beginning to look better. Oh, well.

Yes, things have to be interpreted sometimes.

A perfect example is the "dumb" comment in this thread. When EarlyMon initially read it he interpreted it as attacking the IDEA (OK per Forum Rules). This is also how I read it. You, however, read it differently. There is nothing wrong with you that way.

As we've said, when situations like this arise (you say you moderate on other forums so you understand what I mean), just report them and explain to us in detail why you find it offensive. Ultimately we are empowered with the final decision. We may say "Hey, I didn't read it that way but I can totally see this guy's POV." We may say "This guy is over reacting." We may say "Wow! How did I miss this initially!"

We cannot and do not know your (i.e. anyone) feelings on the matter until they report the post and explain in detail why the post is offensive. The more detailed the explanation,
the more likely the chance of action being taken. A report that says "Rude" may not result in a change. A report that says "I find this is offensive because of these reasons....." is very likely to haver action taken."

As another example, if you were pulled over for speeding and told the cop "I am in a rush" he's going to laugh and give you a ticket. If you tell him that "My wife is pregnant and I just found out that she was a victim of a stabbing in the park. I am rushing to the hospital!" he will likely understand your POV and let you go without a ticket (and may even escort you).


We are human, we may make mistakes. We have our own thoughts, feelings, lives, loved ones, etc. that influence our thoughts on posts/threads. If we don't take action on something or you disagree with the action, send a PM to Phases, the Forum Admin, and let him know. He'll review the issue. *As stated in the Forum Rules*

Remember, however, that by "defending" yourself in an attacking manner against some random guy on the internet who you have never met and will likely never meet IS against the Forum Rules and Zero Tolerance Policy regardless of how a post/thread is interpreted and that these occurrences are often met with infractions and bans.