Fed up with the market

[codezer0]

Rant incoming

Okay, so, my main phone is a V20, and at least rooted and running the latest resurrection remix rom. The Note 4 i bought some time ago then went to the wife because her beloved Windows phone finally had a failing battery, and couldn't find a replacement online for it (Lumia 550, btw).

So, used to be that I always at least tried to keep a model or two in mind as alternatives whenever i got a phone, on the off chance of a failure forcing me to replace it in a hurry. Well, ever since the v20? Eeeggghh...

I bought this v20 second hand for $200. It's more than lasted, for which I'm grateful. But where are the good phones? Where are the phones that don't suck?

For as long as I've been alive and had the privilege of having a mobile phone, a few truths always held:

• No factory battery, ever, lasts even a third of its advertised life on a charge
  
• No sealed battery phone has even lasted two months before the phone's battery degraded measurably
• No phone on any kind of contract has ever survived more than one year

Back then, an S3 was $400 and with an extended battery and a tuned ROM, four days per charge was no problem. As it is now, pretty much need an extended battery to even last a working day with a phone. And yet every time i want to just pick up the weekly freebie from my present carrier (T-Mobile), they keep wanting to pester me to get a free tablet or upgrade my phone.

How the hell is it an upgrade if my usability has to be so drastically reduced to get even the same battery life? How can it be considered an upgrade when it costs more than a PC to have something with an exploding battery in it, and requires open heart surgery skills to replace? Why in the nine hells would i pay money for a phone design that i know is going to piss me off?

I made a point to stick with unlocked phones whence switching to T-Mobile because i wanted the power to walk away. That the service has been good for as long is a pleasant surprise. But even then, if i have to walk away now, there are no good phones, anywhere, at any price. Suffice to say, I'm exhausted from ongoing frustration and phone makers catering to mouth breathing morons with too much money who never leave range of an outlet or a Wi-Fi spot. That's never been a reality for me.

And before anyone starts... "Just get a power bank" ? Oh, you mean like how i had a 20k mAh bank for my (last sealed battery) moto x pure that drained 75% of it to charge the thing ONCE? Or like so many sealed phones that then refuse to charge, and whine at me like it's my fault, when it gets too hot or busy?

Put bluntly, the only acceptable time I'll let it charge would be when I'm already home at the end of the day. If i have to charge during the day, my disappointment, and frustration, with it increases exponentially with every charge session.

I can't even imagine how rough it is for the wife. She preferred the Windows Phone environment, and equally dislikes how Android and iOS do things. She only tolerated my Note 4 thus far because of drawing apps and the stylus.

It somehow feels as bad as trying to get a good sound card and speakers for a pc. At least in that front, i can scour ebay for a working xfi or Audigy, but surround sound speakers basically don't exist in the market anymore because tone deaf people kept doing the "bUt onBoArD aUdIo iS gOoD enUfF" mantra.

And now with phones, because morons keep chasing fashion, they're all built like hot garbage; not only that, but thr asking price is astronomical. $2000 for a ****ing Galaxy?!? A phone designed to literally kill you, for more than the msrp of an rtx 3090. Guess what... Even if i had that kind of cash to blow, I'd still go with the GPU over a phone because I can guarantee I'll get more mileage out of the graphics card. I can not say the same about any phone, regardless of maker or cost.

Tl;dr - I'm frustrated because i want a phone where i can upgrade the factory battery again, and old convenience like the headphones jack that i still use regularly.

Yet it seems like anything on the market, sold as an "upgrade", is missing so many things as to instead be a downgrade. Not only that, but prior experience and history guarantees I'll never be happy with a sealed phone.

 

[Dannydet]

Amen brother

 

[mikedt]

Lumia 550...Ha!... the nearest I ever got to one of those, or any other Windows Phone device, was seeing non-functioning dummy display models in a Microsoft showroom that was much more interested in selling me an Xbox.

 

[Hadron]

I do agree that the market is frankly rather crap, though mainly for different reasons: in my case it's particularly this obsession with oversized phones to the exclusion of all else. In fact I'm at severe risk of having a choice of Sony or Apple if I need a replacement in the near future, and absurdly Apple are the more reasonably-priced of the two! And yes, phones are increasingly ridiculously priced for what are marketed as short-lived devices - and when you consider the resources that go into making one of these things the idea that you might replace it after 1-2 years, as the industry pushes people to do, is pretty much criminal (the main reason I've never bought into this "you are due an upgrade" culture the carriers work to encourage).

TBH the two "innovations" I'd like most are better battery technology and the death of the "glass sandwich" design (the fact that none of the 2020 Pixels was a glass sandwich was one thing that Google got right last year). And "better battery technology" means higher charge capacity and longer battery lifetime, not gimmicky high-power charging (which is part of the "disposable" culture problem IMO).

 

[codezer0]

Lumia 550...Ha!... the nearest I ever got to one of those, or any other Windows Phone device, was seeing non-functioning dummy display models in a Microsoft showroom that was much more interested in selling me an Xbox.

Yes, yes, we get it. You live in china. The Chinese government wants you to hate Microsoft and any imported products.

For $150, unlocked and shipped, that Lumia 550 got a lot of mileage. And i never was able to find that Windows phone style launcher for Android to use to at least appease that itch for her.

Still leaves the question of what to do? Because as is, there seem to be zero good options with 5G support.

 

[Trom]

Rant incoming

Okay, so, my main phone is a V20, and at least rooted and running the latest resurrection remix rom. The Note 4 i bought some time ago then went to the wife because her beloved Windows phone finally had a failing battery, and couldn't find a replacement online for it (Lumia 550, btw).

So, used to be that I always at least tried to keep a model or two in mind as alternatives whenever i got a phone, on the off chance of a failure forcing me to replace it in a hurry. Well, ever since the v20? Eeeggghh...

I bought this v20 second hand for $200. It's more than lasted, for which I'm grateful. But where are the good phones? Where are the phones that don't suck?

For as long as I've been alive and had the privilege of having a mobile phone, a few truths always held:

• No factory battery, ever, lasts even a third of its advertised life on a charge
  
• No sealed battery phone has even lasted two months before the phone's battery degraded measurably
• No phone on any kind of contract has ever survived more than one year

Back then, an S3 was $400 and with an extended battery and a tuned ROM, four days per charge was no problem. As it is now, pretty much need an extended battery to even last a working day with a phone. And yet every time i want to just pick up the weekly freebie from my present carrier (T-Mobile), they keep wanting to pester me to get a free tablet or upgrade my phone.

How the hell is it an upgrade if my usability has to be so drastically reduced to get even the same battery life? How can it be considered an upgrade when it costs more than a PC to have something with an exploding battery in it, and requires open heart surgery skills to replace? Why in the nine hells would i pay money for a phone design that i know is going to piss me off?

I made a point to stick with unlocked phones whence switching to T-Mobile because i wanted the power to walk away. That the service has been good for as long is a pleasant surprise. But even then, if i have to walk away now, there are no good phones, anywhere, at any price. Suffice to say, I'm exhausted from ongoing frustration and phone makers catering to mouth breathing morons with too much money who never leave range of an outlet or a Wi-Fi spot. That's never been a reality for me.

And before anyone starts... "Just get a power bank" ? Oh, you mean like how i had a 20k mAh bank for my (last sealed battery) moto x pure that drained 75% of it to charge the thing ONCE? Or like so many sealed phones that then refuse to charge, and whine at me like it's my fault, when it gets too hot or busy?

Put bluntly, the only acceptable time I'll let it charge would be when I'm already home at the end of the day. If i have to charge during the day, my disappointment, and frustration, with it increases exponentially with every charge session.

I can't even imagine how rough it is for the wife. She preferred the Windows Phone environment, and equally dislikes how Android and iOS do things. She only tolerated my Note 4 thus far because of drawing apps and the stylus.

It somehow feels as bad as trying to get a good sound card and speakers for a pc. At least in that front, i can scour ebay for a working xfi or Audigy, but surround sound speakers basically don't exist in the market anymore because tone deaf people kept doing the "bUt onBoArD aUdIo iS gOoD enUfF" mantra.

And now with phones, because morons keep chasing fashion, they're all built like hot garbage; not only that, but thr asking price is astronomical. $2000 for a ****ing Galaxy?!? A phone designed to literally kill you, for more than the msrp of an rtx 3090. Guess what... Even if i had that kind of cash to blow, I'd still go with the GPU over a phone because I can guarantee I'll get more mileage out of the graphics card. I can not say the same about any phone, regardless of maker or cost.

Tl;dr - I'm frustrated because i want a phone where i can upgrade the factory battery again, and old convenience like the headphones jack that i still use regularly.

Yet it seems like anything on the market, sold as an "upgrade", is missing so many things as to instead be a downgrade. Not only that, but prior experience and history guarantees I'll never be happy with a sealed phone.

I really liked my windows phone.

In any case, I've seen some more than adequate xiaomi phones on Amazon for a couple of hundred bucks. My current phone is a OnePlus 7 that I bought brand new a couple years ago for less than 400 and the specs and performance are top notch. Regarding the battery, I read an article once.. Short story, I have tasker alarm me when the charge hits 85% or when it drops to 35%, and I have noticed really significant battery performance keeping it in that range over past phones that I just let sit on the charger all night.
at 100%

Just my two cents.

 

[mikedt]

Yes, yes, we get it. You live in china. The Chinese government wants you to hate Microsoft and any imported products.

OT:
The reality here is quite the opposite actually. China loves Microsoft, and Microsoft loves China, same with Apple. Microsoft's products and services are all available, and there's special versions of Windows just for China.

It's Google that has problems in the Middle Kingdom, and is mostly banned here.

For $150, unlocked and shipped, that Lumia 550 got a lot of mileage. And i never was able to find that Windows phone style launcher for Android to use to at least appease that itch for her.

Still leaves the question of what to do? Because as is, there seem to be zero good options with 5G support.

Problem with Windows Phone from what I saw, was Microsoft's half-assed attempts at marketing here. Like only having dummy display models with cardboard screens in their showroom, and this was in a tech mall with other smart-phone retailers, that had working Androids and iPhones on display for customers to try out. The Microsoft Store didn't even bother keeping any Windows Phone devices in stock, if I wanted one, they had to order it. That was back in 2016. The Microsoft Store is still there, but now only sells Xboxs and games, and Surface laptops and tablets.

 

[Hadron]

My son's partner really liked her Microsoft phone. But the platform has gone, so there was nothing to do about that - she recognised that there was no point in trying to make Android look like a half-assed skin-deep copy of Windows Phone (i.e. a Windows-style launcher) and just adapted.

 

[mikedt]

FWIW and OT, I posted about my experiences with Windows Phone(or lack of) here on AF, back in 2017
https://androidforums.com/threads/windows-phone-is-so-dead.1126218/#post-7508761

 

[dontpanicbobby]

Brothers and Sisters!
Brothers and Sisters!

Get an Ultra.

 

[mikedt]

• No factory battery, ever, lasts even a third of its advertised life on a charge
  
• No sealed battery phone has even lasted two months before the phone's battery degraded measurably
• No phone on any kind of contract has ever survived more than one year

Well I'm still using a Huawei Mate 10 with Android 10, which has a sealed battery, I bought over three years ago now. in January 2018. And it's still going strong, battery still lasts as long as when I bought it. And at the moment I have no reason to change, as there's still nothing compelling out there that makes me want to change. When it finally dies, that's probably when I'll change phone.

YMMV of course.

Can't really comment about phones on contract, as the last one of those I had was back in 1993, an NEC 9A. Because phones on contract was all there was at the time in the UK.

 

[codezer0]

I really liked my windows phone.

In any case, I've seen some more than adequate xiaomi phones on Amazon for a couple of hundred bucks. My current phone is a OnePlus 7 that I bought brand new a couple years ago for less than 400 and the specs and performance are top notch. Regarding the battery, I read an article once.. Short story, I have tasker alarm me when the charge hits 85% or when it drops to 35%, and I have noticed really significant battery performance keeping it in that range over past phones that I just let sit on the charger all night.
at 100%

Just my two cents.

What's a xiaomi? Does it have a removable battery? What's the size of the battery?

As far as oneplus goes... Every review of every model ever, pretty much says the same thing. To get any meaningful uptime from its atrocious battery, you have to turn every feature off. Then why bother have those features at all?

Brothers and Sisters!
Brothers and Sisters!

Get an Ultra.

Yes, because I'm totally going to spend as much as my car for a phone that has a 10 minute battery life before going supernova and literally killing me. Uh huh.

(See attached) this is what i get with my v20 and its extended battery. To survive *a working day* with me, that screen on time needs to be at least 8 hours. Until then, it's not good enough.

 

[mikedt]

Yes, because I'm totally going to spend as much as my car for a phone that has a 10 minute battery life before going supernova and literally killing me. Uh huh..

OT:
Sounds like you're not spending much on your cars then? What sort of car does say $2000 bucks buy you in America? It won't be new of course.

 

[codezer0]

OT:
Sounds like you're not spending much on your cars then? What sort of car does say $2000 bucks buy you in America? It won't be new of course.

$2000 period? Not much. $2000 *a week* like these phone makers apparently want us to spend? Would get you into an Aston Martin easily... Or pay off a Tesla in a calendar year.

$2000 should have been enough for a 3090 and a 3070; or two 6900XT graphics cards. Or a couple of 3080 gpu's with proper waterblocks. If i had that kind of money to blow, a GPU would get me much more mileage, than a phone ever will.

And simply, i see no point spending any money on a sealed battery phone. Because the battery life will only get worse; never better. It shouldn't require open heart surgeon skills to replace a battery. There SHOULD be the option to upgrade the battery.

Unless a sealed battery phone starts with capacities north of 10k mAh, i have no hope of it lasting, at all. And i sure as heck see no point spending even $100 on it, let alone $2000 + tax + shipping on it.

 

[Davdi]

So what do you do that a fully charged phone won't last a day? I've got an Infocus IN610 (Generic Chinese phone) running Jellybean. Its got a 4000MaH removable battery that still lasts about 3 days. OK I use the 80/20 rule regarding charge, but it's still the original battery. I don't use it as a phone, but it's a great GPS in the car. My daily driver is an Umidigi F2 running vanilla Android 10. it has a 5000 M)aH battery that lasts 2-3 days normal use (You know, actual phone calls, a few photos, some streaming music and YouTube)

 

[Trom]

What's a xiaomi? Does it have a removable battery?..

As far as oneplus goes... Every review... any meaningful uptime from its atrocious battery, you have to turn every feature off. Then why bother have those features at all?

It would've taken less time to look up xiaomi at Amazon as I suggested, than to ask here what it is. As far as oneplus battery issues, I described my own experience, which is positive if you take care of your battery. If you must have a removable battery, might I suggest a pine phone.

 

[codezer0]

So what do you do that a fully charged phone won't last a day? I've got an Infocus IN610 (Generic Chinese phone) running Jellybean. Its got a 4000MaH removable battery that still lasts about 3 days. OK I use the 80/20 rule regarding charge, but it's still the original battery. I don't use it as a phone, but it's a great GPS in the car. My daily driver is an Umidigi F2 running vanilla Android 10. it has a 5000 M)aH battery that lasts 2-3 days normal use (You know, actual phone calls, a few photos, some streaming music and YouTube)

4am: wake up, morning ritual, put on youtube for tech news from gn/HUB/jayztwocents or a morning chuckle
6am: report to work
first break: usually a couple of hours of eff all to do (split shifts being what they are). discord, youtube, surfing, listening to music, videos from youtube or twitch
mid day: music or entertainment playlist, talking head mode basically during the travel
next break: catch up on new development(s)
work again
clock out around 5:15p
run phone audio through car for trip home

All that, on my V20 at present, and I'm between 40~55% battery by the time I get home at the end of the day.

On my Moto X Pure, it was already at low battery (less than 15%) by my first break, whinging for a recharge. Even with two hours of charging (typically), it still wouldn't reach 100%; so I'd have to charge it during the mid-day, only for it to burn itself down and already be at 40% again by the time I go clock in for the final run of the day. With pokemon go? forget it. the MXPE would go from full charge to 0% in sixty minutes. So on average, I was having to plug the thing in to charge two or three times a day. Not only that, but the required charging at work just ensured that I was having to replace charging cables (literally) every to every other week.

It would've taken less time to look up xiaomi at Amazon as I suggested, than to ask here what it is. As far as oneplus battery issues, I described my own experience, which is positive if you take care of your battery. If you must have a removable battery, might I suggest a pine phone.

Now that I'm home to see it, Pine phone does look curious. Not sure how I feel about a bare Linux OS for it, but that it uses the same battery as a J7 is a point in its favor, because there are extended batteries readily available. However, it also lacks 5G; granted, it is a beta product according to their page, so maybe that'll be fixed later. We'll see I guess.

As far as Xiaomi is concerned, though... yeah, hard pass. The only 5G (claimed) phone is north of $400 on amazon, and another sealed battery POS.

 

[puppykickr]

My son's partner really liked her Microsoft phone. But the platform has gone, so there was nothing to do about that - she recognised that there was no point in trying to make Android look like a half-assed skin-deep copy of Windows Phone (i.e. a Windows-style launcher) and just adapted.

Did dhe ever try Apex Launcher?
I dont know diddly about Windows phones, but that launcher can mimick many different devices.

I even used it when seting up my ol'lady's device, to make it seem identical to the Jellybean version she was upgrading from.

Just be aware, Google is heavily ingrained with Google Services inside the launcher, and that led to me no longer using it.

Still a great launcher, though.

 

[Hadron]

I don't think she even tried. A launcher is, after all, just cosmetic: the phone won't work differently, you can just change how the home screens look (and from what I remember of brief plays with Windows Phone the UI worked in ways that went beyond just square/rectangular launcher tiles).

To be honest I actually quite liked the Windows Phone interface when I saw it used by someone who knew their way around it. And I'll give MS credit for trying something different, rather than just copying 1990s PDAs like Apple did (and many Android layouts as well, though Android at least always had flexibility, even if defaults often resulted in the same dull icon grid). Actually now that I think of it the Apple interface is so slavishly a copy of the Palm one that even the "fill your grid of icons from the top-left corner" convention is the same (and how come that is still the only option after more than a decade? Oh no, wait, now you can insert widgets into the grid, at least on phones though not tablets...).

 

[Trom]

.. beloved Windows phone..

Don't see the problem, mine still works..

 

[codezer0]

Don't see the problem, mine still works..
View attachment 157195

Okay? Does not help us; hers unfortunately, developed the pregnant battery situation. Granted it lasted some four years before it finally happened, but rather sad that something that was such a great price and appealed to her sensibilities, become unusable as a result.

 

[Trom]

Okay? Does not help us; hers unfortunately, developed the pregnant battery situation. Granted it lasted some four years before it finally happened, but rather sad that something that was such a great price and appealed to her sensibilities, become unusable as a result.

I'm kinda done with this thread, the reason not the least of which is is lack of sense of humor. If you take care of your battery, your phone lasts more than a year. 'Nuff said.

 

[codezer0]

I'm kinda done with this thread, the reason not the least of which is is lack of sense of humor. If you take care of your battery, your phone lasts more than a year. 'Nuff said.

A battery that can't last a day falls flatter than your jokes. And your lousy attitude isn't needed, either.

 

[mikedt]

4am: wake up, morning ritual, put on youtube for tech news from gn/HUB/jayztwocents or a morning chuckle
6am: report to work
first break: usually a couple of hours of eff all to do (split shifts being what they are). discord, youtube, surfing, listening to music, videos from youtube or twitch
mid day: music or entertainment playlist, talking head mode basically during the travel
next break: catch up on new development(s)
work again
clock out around 5:15p
run phone audio through car for trip home

That ritual sounds frightening. You finish at 5.15, what do you actually do for the rest of the day? I sometimes look at things on YouTube in the morning, but it's not essential to my day.

 

[codezer0]

It's split shifts. but I see no point in leaving and wasting fuel unless I have to.

And, again, here's the problem, in URL form: https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?s5Gs=0&idBatRemovable=1

so we already know 5G is more battery chugging than LTE. but nobody will make one with a removable battery; much less a battery design that would allow an upgrade. Not even factoring anything else, that just means anything I buy now, won't even last an hour of use before whinging for a (re)charge. I also use the headphone jack pretty regularly, now that I finally have a car that has an aux port on it.

I can't even migrate my number to a landline, either, because it's not the (present home) area code. And if I lose this number, even if I moved back, my chances of getting a number in said area code are effectively nil.