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Good thinking, Verizon...

S

shadowdude777

Android Expert
This isn't a specific Droid issue, it's a beef I have with Verizon, but it does piss me off all the same. Just thought I'd share it with you guys and tell you why never to buy a Network Extender.

So I bought one thinking "oh great, I have no service at my house, this should clear things up." So I unboxed it and plugged it into my home network. It worked fine and I got great reception; no duh, it's like having a mini-antenna in my house. I went online to read up on how to get Managed Access working, cause you know, I don't want some random person using my bandwidth to make phone calls and any idiot could see that. What I learned was disturbing, to say the least:

"Where a compatible cell tower is unavailable, callers that do not appear on your managed access list may access the Network Extender when not in use by priority callers."

So "Managed Access" translates to "we're going to let you think you have control over your own internet connection but you really don't and we tucked this little tidbit of information away in the bowels of our FAQ so we're not responsible for anything". I e-mailed Verizon telling them this is ridiculous; would you leave your WiFi unencrypted so everyone around you could use it? I also told them considering the throughput can go up to 240kb/s, that's potentially well over 70GB a month of usage and I bet Verizon would complain if I had Verizon DSL or FiOS and pulled that much data. I summed it up by telling them that this needed to be rectified because it means their users are paying $250 to share their internet bandwidth with the rest of the neighborhood.

I never got a response from them (surprise surprise) so it was off to the phone:

Me: *explain my case as I did in the e-mail I sent*
Rep: "Well, you know, it's not like the whole world can use your internet connection through this, the range is fairly short and I doubt anyone is using up your bandwidth"
Me: "I live in New York City so it's not like there are no other homes within range of the Network Extender. Both of my next-door neighbors have Verizon and considering this is a dead zone for your network, they will be pulling off my extender whether they know it or not, whether they want to or not. WiFi also has a range similar to your extender's but Linksys, Belkin, D-Link, and pretty much every single router manufacturer out there provides encryption mechanisms for their product."
Rep: *silence*
Me: "So what do I do next to get a return?"
Rep: "I'll transfer you now *all the have a nice day, I'm sorry we couldn't rectify your problem, yadda yadda tech support speech*"

Sorry if this thread is meaningless to most of you; I just wanted to tell you guys, if you have no Verizon reception, don't pay them to be a miniature antenna for your area; just switch carriers (it's what I'm going to do when this stupid contract is over. HTC EVO, here I come).
 
The instructions says that "manage users" is for people to have priority over others but not limit use. And the reason it doesn't extend 3G support is so that it doesn't use your bandwidth so essentially it shouldn't use much of your data. I currently have 2 and they work great.
 
@bose: No, I didn't. I used to live somewhere with fine reception (assuming that I was living there when the extender came out), meaning I didn't care about it.

@mazz0310: It still stands that it says in the manual you can have up and down speeds of 120kb/s. A throughput of 240kb/s gives you a possible total of 70GB/mo. Clearly, it's possible to use significant data with people leeching your bandwidth, even for voice calls.
 
Okay, I am just speaking off my limited knowledge of network extenders. So at any time, if I am wrong in my opinions and assumptions, please correct me.

For one, this isn't WiFi. You are not directly connected to a network to where your phone would be susceptible to hackers or intruder attacks. Therefore, the usual encryption methods typically seen on a WiFi router is not necessary from a security standpoint.

Second, you are paying for, as you put it, an antenna, but not the service on a per month basis (excluding what you pay on month for your call and data plan on your phone). So if people are leeching off your network, who really cares? If we even use you optimum data numbers you posted of 70 Gigs, say you only use 5 out of that 70, are really out anything?

You said you can set up a preferred device list, correct? So, in my mind, as long as some one's leeching isn't slowing down my connection speeds, I would really not care. Sure, they are getting something for nothing, but if it bothers you so bad, just go door to door and ask all Verizon Wireless customers for a donation of $5-10.

You also mentioned that the area you live in is known as a "dead" spot. I would assume that most people who actually have Verizon and live in the immediate area most likely don't have smart phones. I don't think I would personally spend roughly $100/month on a phone I couldn't use when I was at home.

So, basically, what you are saying is that you would rather have virtually no service (unless other network extenders have stronger security and encryptions methods) just because someone who lives in a close proximity will benefit without any expense or slow-down to your own services? Remind me not to ask you for a drink of water in the desert when you have a truck load of 5 gallon jugs with you. ;)

I had looked at network extenders prior, but stopped my pursuits when I read they only handled 1x versus 3G. Is that still the case?
 
My upload speeds never pass 60kb/s. Ever. That's all they go up to. One phone call takes 40kb/s up and down. Does that sound like unnoticeable slowdown to you, 2/3 of your upload bandwidth? That's what bothers me, that one phone call could slow my internet down considerably and two simultaneous ones will completely destroy my speeds.

It's also more a matter of principle, that Verizon's basically making you pay to be an antenna at the expense of your bandwidth with no way to opt out of that.

And no, they still cannot handle 3G.
 
I honestly don't see what the big deal is, unless it uses your internet connection to provide the cell signal (I don't know that much about it). If it does use your internet connection, then I could see it being a problem. It wouldn't bother me, as I'm on 35/35 FIOS with no cap, but if someone where on slow broadband and or had a cap, it could be trouble...
 
dmodert66 said:
I honestly don't see what the big deal is, unless it uses your internet connection to provide the cell signal (I don't know that much about it). If it does use your internet connection, then I could see it being a problem. It wouldn't bother me, as I'm on 35/35 FIOS with no cap, but if someone where on slow broadband and or had a cap, it could be trouble...
Click to expand...

That's me. 60kb/s up max speed. ;)
 
dmodert66 said:
I honestly don't see what the big deal is, unless it uses your internet connection to provide the cell signal (I don't know that much about it). If it does use your internet connection, then I could see it being a problem. It wouldn't bother me, as I'm on 35/35 FIOS with no cap, but if someone where on slow broadband and or had a cap, it could be trouble...
Click to expand...

And even if you are 'uncapped' try pulling 500 GB in a month and see what happens....

Very very few uncapped plans anymore. Plus, the Comcast vs FCC decision is only going to make this worse.
 
I don't see why this is such a big deal, you're paying for the antenna not sole rights to the service. Stop being greedy! You'd most likely never notice anyways.

But you should switch to ATT cuz I hear they have MUCH better service!!
 
I don't see why this is such a big deal, you're paying for the antenna not sole rights to the service. Stop being greedy! You'd most likely never notice anyways.

But you should switch to ATT cuz I hear they have MUCH better service!!
 
BlueIce5249 said:
I don't see why this is such a big deal, you're paying for the antenna not sole rights to the service. Stop being greedy! You'd most likely never notice anyways.

But you should switch to ATT cuz I hear they have MUCH better service!!
Click to expand...

Actually, he is paying for access to the service via his personal internet connection. Other people connecting through his extender, use up his personal internet bandwidth. I would say he has sole rights to that access. I would also be a little upset that I couldn't control who leeches off my internet connection, especially if I have a really low upload speed and random people are saturating it making calls over my extender.

If he lives in a decent sized building that gets really poor reception, I would venture a guess to say that a few of his neighbors would probably get a stronger signal from his extender and unknowingly be making calls through it.

So based on the fact that not only do you have to dump $250 (less via discounts) for the extender itself, along with about $50/mo for the net connection to make it work.. I do feel that there should be some way to lock it down to only your personal devices. Personally, I would just switch providers or move if I needed service that badly. Paying an extra fee for internet to use an extender I also had to buy, which still uses my phone minutes, just sounds like too much of a ripoff to me.
 
I think the OP is misunderstanding.

The Network Extender does NOT carry data - meaning if someone does get in range and opens a browser on his/her cell phone, your Network Extender will not carry that traffic.

It only works with calls. Combine that with the relatively close distance a phone would have to be to it in order to pair with it, and the chances that anyone else will ever be able to make a call through it will be pretty slim.

I have a network extender at home, since it seems I am right where two cell towers overlap - my phone will go from showing full 3G signal, to 1 or 0 bars of 1x. With the Network Extender, I haven't missed any calls, and making calls works fine.

I don't like that it's 'open', but the chances of anyone actually using it are pretty slim.
 
Another option - put the Network Extender on a timer. Shut off power to it while you're gone, and have it powered back on before you get home. That will mitigate some of it's usage.
 
FrayAdjacent said:
I think the OP is misunderstanding.

The Network Extender does NOT carry data - meaning if someone does get in range and opens a browser on his/her cell phone, your Network Extender will not carry that traffic.
Click to expand...

The extender converts calls into data transferred over your bandwidth. The point was if you have extremely low bandwidth, multiple phones accessing the extender to make calls could saturate your internet to the point of it becoming extremely slow.

And living in a large apartment complex, depending on where you have the extender located, quite a few other tenants (beside, above, below) could quite possibly pick up the signal. Especially if there is virtually no tower signal.

Besides.. why should someone pay $250 just to give other people (however unlikely) a signal instead of making them go buy their own.
 
BlueIce5249 said:
I don't see why this is such a big deal, you're paying for the antenna not sole rights to the service. Stop being greedy! You'd most likely never notice anyways.

But you should switch to ATT cuz I hear they have MUCH better service!!
Click to expand...

It's my network extender. I paid for the device and there are no strings attached. Would you like it if you bought a wireless router and Linksys told you you have to leave the WiFi open for other people to use it, even if you get priority? I don't think so.

And like I said, I would notice. MANY of my neighbors have Verizon. Many of them are in range of the extender. Each one will be using 2/3 of my bandwidth when they make or receive a phone call. I don't live in some backwater region where there are no homes within 200 feet of mine and I have several acres of land.

Shadowtech said:
Actually, he is paying for access to the service via his personal internet connection. Other people connecting through his extender, use up his personal internet bandwidth. I would say he has sole rights to that access. I would also be a little upset that I couldn't control who leeches off my internet connection, especially if I have a really low upload speed and random people are saturating it making calls over my extender.

If he lives in a decent sized building that gets really poor reception, I would venture a guess to say that a few of his neighbors would probably get a stronger signal from his extender and unknowingly be making calls through it.

So based on the fact that not only do you have to dump $250 (less via discounts) for the extender itself, along with about $50/mo for the net connection to make it work.. I do feel that there should be some way to lock it down to only your personal devices. Personally, I would just switch providers or move if I needed service that badly. Paying an extra fee for internet to use an extender I also had to buy, which still uses my phone minutes, just sounds like too much of a ripoff to me.
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Exactly. Verizon is benefiting in every way from this and screwing over the purchaser of the extender. Benefits for Verizon:

1) More people get reception, more people are happy
2) It's free for them! In fact it's $250 of profit for them (I didn't get rebates, mail-in or instant, when I bought the extender). Normally Verizon has to pay to put up an antenna and pay for the rights to buy/rent the land.
3) The surrounding people that use my extender get to put load on my ISP instead of on Verizon's network.

Benefits for me:
1) I get better reception
2) I get to pay overage fees when my bandwidth use skyrockets.

Basically I get to put down a one-time payment and still have to pay for minutes to make Verizon's life easier.

Luckily, I can opt out of this by returning their crappy product. Which I have done. :)
 
I have a zBoost Cell Phone Signal Extender. It does not plug into anything but the power line, and it picks the signal from the tower and makes a mini tower in house. No internet required!
Wi-Ex :: YX500-CEL
Might be able to find it cheaper online then in store. I sell mine for $299.99 Not a great price, but its a great device, works wonders!
 
If so many of your neighbors have VZW also, why are they not also adding these extenders, it would create an area with super signal strength. Just wondering, why you are the only one fighting a war that seems to include all those other users.
 
BlueIce5249 said:
I don't see why this is such a big deal, you're paying for the antenna not sole rights to the service. Stop being greedy! You'd most likely never notice anyways.

But you should switch to ATT cuz I hear they have MUCH better service!!
Click to expand...

You don't understand how the system works. It uses your broadband connection to create the phone backbone back to their system. So essentially it's setting up a voip gateway for anybody with a Verizon cellphone to use your internet bandwidth.

Personally I'd take the microcell back and move to a different carrier. Verizon should let you out of your contract since you no longer have proper service at your new home.
 
barry99705 said:
You don't understand how the system works. It uses your broadband connection to create the phone backbone back to their system. So essentially it's setting up a voip gateway for anybody with a Verizon cellphone to use your internet bandwidth.

Personally I'd take the microcell back and move to a different carrier. Verizon should let you out of your contract since you no longer have proper service at your new home.
Click to expand...
As long as I'm not using it someone may as well. If I get priority and my bandwith when I need it, I don't care who uses it when I'm not.
 
BlueIce5249 said:
As long as I'm not using it someone may as well. If I get priority and my bandwith when I need it, I don't care who uses it when I'm not.
Click to expand...

Nope, you won't. If someone else is using your extender then it will effect your bandwidth on your internet connection. You have no priority over that, only priority if your actually making a call.

I think this is horrible and I ask how can this even be allowed? The AT&T and Sprint fem's don't allow this so why would VZW? Thankfully I get great service where I live but if I din't no way I would use one of these things. Get the zboost, they work great.
 
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