Homeless Person's Pride

[Bob Maxey]

In another thread, someone mentioned food stamps and how using them diminishes a person's pride. I started to answer the poster but thought perhaps this might make a good discussion on its own.

Some of you have little knowledge of the homeless problem. This is a good thing, I should think. I thought I would give you a look at what it is like to be homeless in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Lets discuss pride. Pride can quickly leave the building in short order. Especially if survival is at stake. And we are talking about a group that includes people that dumpster dive, raid garbage cans, ask for change and smoke tossed butts. Pride? You really think using food stamps bothers some people?

Some of you clearly do not live in the system and that is a great thing. But some of you do not realize just how "good" these folks have it, so perhaps I should give you a look at those poor and hapless homeless people.

It is important to know how it really is before you can discuss whatever pride they feel or do not feel.

Incidentally, there are statistics that say most of you are two or three pay checks away from homelessness, so you all best be researching homeless resources now, before they lock your door. Do it before you are fired.

Here in Utah, the homeless have several free places to stay. No rent. They have free coffee and pastry in the AM and free dinner at night. Food like burritos and pizza and beef stew; chocolate milk, brownies and the like. FREE! Line up and get your fill and refills if you want.

Better yet, take more than you need to sell along side the cigarette guy that sells smokes, no taxes, 8 for a dollar. That is $2.50 a pack; a great deal compared to commercially made smokes that are seven or eight bucks. Such a deal.

Go to The Road Home, The Weigand Center, under the local Viaduct, or three or four other places to get everything you need; indeed, more than you can possible use.

Even your dog is given things like little booties, jackets, food and treats.

On Friday, they get free clothes and personal care products. Deodorant, shaving crap, lotions and unguents . . . as much as they want; quite likely more than they can carry.

Some street people have stopped washing their clothes because they can get far more than they need for free, so it is easier to toss a pair of pants in the trash and replace them with new pants for free. None of you wear new clothes for a few days, toss the dirty stuff and then go get more.

At the shelter or any of several other places, everything is free and it is generally high quality stuff. Rent, new clothes, medical care, food, personal care products, showers, cell phones with minutes . . . why should the homeless change; they get for free the same stuff you pay for. You suckers

They might live in a dump with a few crazies confounding their lives and they live a life most of you would never choose, but over time, they become institutionalized. It is far too easy to give up. Sure, an apartment would be nice or perhaps a house, but for many, all they care about is a warm place to stay and food.

It is very easy to become absorbed by a system that requires no money, yet provides more than you could possibly use.

On some days, McDonalds delivers pancakes, eggs, sausage and biscuits. Free, Free, Free. Want more? Ask and they give you seconds. Some nights, it is free pizza from Pizza Hut or homemade pasta and meatballs and beverages. More than you can possibly eat.

The system cares for every need and eventually, many give up. Some leave and move into subsidized housing which is like free rent in a good building. They know where to get all of the free stuff I mentioned, so they are riding the gravy train on biscuit wheels. Some still get food stamps, too.

I know that rent can be just a few hundred per month and because the homeless are smarter than you might think, every possible need is paid for. The net result is without a job, they likely do better than many of you do.

So forget the pride, some say. Look at the best possible deal that includes no payment of state or federal income taxes and every need provided for. Many will gladly trade pride for a great deal.

You all work hard and pay taxes. The homeless have almost everything you have and whatever money they earn, is pure profit. Why should they change?

Whatever embarrassment or loss of pride they feel about using food stamps is gone. You are now given an EBT card and you can shop in local stores and use self-checkout. Nobody will know. And since there are no more phone interviews to renew your food stamps, embarrassment is gone and the cash is there monthly.

 

[Gmash]

You live in Utah, a rich, all white state. And the Mormons like to buy their way into people's good graces to distract from their cultish ways. Go see how the homeless live in Detroit and I'm sure it will be a different story.

 

[saptech]

What is that state's population, 1 million???

 

[lightsleeper23]

Yeah what a paradise. Stand in line for a couple hours surrounded by the dregs oh society, hoping you don't get beat up and robbed, and hope you get a free meal before they run out. IF the shelter has any openings, which they frequently don't, check in by 7 PM and sleep in a filthy dump surrounded by same dregs hoping, once again, you don't get beaten or robbed or raped, and that you can get out in the morning without contracting lice, body lice, or scabies... etc. Or sleep outside in the cold with all those same concerns.

Line up at the 4th street clinic if you're ill and hope you can be seen that day for rudimentary treatment, basically a consultation, a few free sample pills for your blood pressure, whatever. You got a toothache, better hope you can get in. You probably won't that day, may end up waiting months, and you better be OK with tooth getting pulled because that's all you can get.

But hey, as long as your getting the bare minimum to survive, who cares. It's a dream come true.

I've lived here all my life. Im sure it's not as bad as, say Detroit, but it's not as cushy to be homeless as Bob would lead on.

 

[kool kat2]

 

[SiempreTuna]

Un-freakin'-believable.

I mean I really, truly cannot believe the original post: it reads like a satire on the callous conservative with zero understanding, zero compassion and zero soul.

Surely it's a joke? Nobody - other than a sociopath - could think like that.

 

[Bob Maxey]

You live in Utah, a rich, all white state. And the Mormons like to buy their way into people's good graces to distract from their cultish ways. Go see how the homeless live in Detroit and I'm sure it will be a different story.

We are not a rich, white state. Are we? really? And I am sure things are worse in other places.

As for the Mormons, you have nary a clue. Wikepedia and Google do not a substitute for living here make.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Un-freakin'-believable.

I mean I really, truly cannot believe the original post: it reads like a satire on the callous conservative with zero understanding, zero compassion and zero soul.

Surely it's a joke? Nobody - other than a sociopath - could think like that.

I am simply telling you like it actually is. Are you calling me a sociopath? Learn the term before you bandy it about willy nilly. I am a Conservative but apparently, you do not understand what one of those is, either.

Perhaps you can attack the post rather than the poster?

 

[Bob Maxey]

Yeah what a paradise. Stand in line for a couple hours surrounded by the dregs oh society, hoping you don't get beat up and robbed, and hope you get a free meal before they run out. IF the shelter has any openings, which they frequently don't, check in by 7 PM and sleep in a filthy dump surrounded by same dregs hoping, once again, you don't get beaten or robbed or raped, and that you can get out in the morning without contracting lice, body lice, or scabies... etc. Or sleep outside in the cold with all those same concerns.

Line up at the 4th street clinic if you're ill and hope you can be seen that day for rudimentary treatment, basically a consultation, a few free sample pills for your blood pressure, whatever. You got a toothache, better hope you can get in. You probably won't that day, may end up waiting months, and you better be OK with tooth getting pulled because that's all you can get.

But hey, as long as your getting the bare minimum to survive, who cares. It's a dream come true.

I've lived here all my life. Im sure it's not as bad as, say Detroit, but it's not as cushy to be homeless as Bob would lead on.

I am not saying it is a paradise. Not at all. I say it is a hell of its own sort. That said, it is a grand place to be for growing numbers of members of our society. Sadly so, but it is what it is: a way to slide through life with everything you need to live.

By the way, the local shelters do not turn people away. They will always find a place. Again, not paradise but not exactly hell either.

There is no set check-in time. Perhaps where you live, but not in SLC. There are preferred check in times, but one can always find a place. And the violence is limited because there is a police presence due to where the shelter is located. No more violent than other parts of the city. Not dirty as you might think due to how the shelter is run.

And one of the most luxurious hotels in the city had a bedbug outbreak, so critters can arrive anywhere.

Look, folks, I am not saying it is a great way to live. I am saying that growing numbers of people are finding it comfortable and easy. The danger of institutionalization is ever present and it is sad. It is no way to live for some of you, but some of you might end up there at some point and you might be glad there is a place to stay.

Here is hoping I am wrong about that.

 

[Bob Maxey]

What is that state's population, 1 million???

The Census Bureau says 2,855,287. And before you ask, mostly white and a large Mormon population. We were, after all, founded by Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon Church.

Our economy is said to be up and our state is rather clean. We are run by a typical gang of idiots like most states, and no, the Mormons do not control us. At least that is what we are told to say.

Greatest snow on earth, they say.

 

[Gmash]

I would think most of the people who live that way for any extended period probably suffer from some mental illness, not just aggravated laziness.

 

[SiempreTuna]

I am simply telling you like it actually is. Are you calling me a sociopath? Learn the term before you bandy it about willy nilly. I am a Conservative but apparently, you do not understand what one of those is, either.

I'm saying that the the opions expressed showed a profound lack of empathy and a moral outlook inconsistent with the norms of society, which, while not spot on, comes pretty darn close to the defintion of a sociopath:

Sociopaths are usually defined as people displaying anti social behavior which is mainly characterized by lack of empathy towards others that is coupled with display of abnormal moral conduct and inability to conform with the norms of the society

I was really hoping you were joking ..

 

[sleedeane]

There are those that have found themselves in a homeless situation because they were dealt a suck hand.
They still have pride because they know they have tried their best to better their situation.
Just circumstances have become too overwhelming and forced them into a lifestyle they never imagined being in and they make the best of it and hope tomorrow will not be quite the struggle that it was today.

Then you have the ones that are more than proud to collect food stamps because they know they have beaten the system.
They collect SS because they faked a mental illness.
They make babies just so they can continue to collect welfare and child support.
They sell their food stamps for 50 cents on the dollar and/or drugs.
They collect huge tax returns even though they haven't worked a day for years.
Section eight housing.
Fake their job searches so they can collect unemployment for another 6 months.
Yes, I am actually jealous of some of these deadbeat low lives because they pretty much get everything they need and want.

 

[ItnStln511]

You live in Utah, a rich, all white state. And the Mormons like to buy their way into people's good graces to distract from their cultish ways. Go see how the homeless live in Detroit and I'm sure it will be a different story.

Someone had to make it racist...

We are not a rich, white state. Are we? really?

That's what CNN is saying, so it Must be true!

As for the Mormons, you have nary a clue. Wikepedia and Google do not a substitute for living here make.

But why? It's more fun to pretend you know what you're talking about.

I am simply telling you like it actually is.

However that's not how CNN is portraying it to that poster.

I am a Conservative but apparently, you do not understand what one of those is, either.

I believe you're right there!

 

[lightsleeper23]

Someone had to make it racist...

Obviously Gmash is saying that it's mostly a white state, as everyone knows there are no literally 100% white states. Simply observing the majority race in a state in the context of this discussion is neither racist, nor accusing anyone of being racist. You are the only one playing the race card in this particular thread.

That's what CNN is saying, so it Must be true!

At what point was CNN mentioned in this thread? All you're doing with this pointless comment is displaying your bitterness and hatred for anything you deem to be liberal, whether it's relevant to a conversation or not.

But why? It's more fun to pretend you know what you're talking about.

Gmash isn't "pretending" to know anything. I live in Salt Lake City, and I can tell you this assertion about the Mormon church is 100% correct. All you're doing is looking at an opinion from a conservative, and an opinion from someone you deem a liberal, and automatically siding with the conservative regardless of the truth of the information.

However that's not how CNN is portraying it to that poster.

Again taking every opportunity you can to show hatred for something that is liberal in your eyes. Even though it's completely irrelevant.

I believe you're right there!

Trust me it's the fact that we DO understand what conservatism is that we are against it.

 

[Gmash]

Someone had to make it racist...


That's what CNN is saying, so it Must be true!


But why? It's more fun to pretend you know what you're talking about.


However that's not how CNN is portraying it to that poster.


I believe you're right there!

Are you ever going to post anything that actually contributes in some constructive way to one of these threads?

 

[SiempreTuna]

There are those that have found themselves in a homeless situation because they were dealt a suck hand.
They still have pride because they know they have tried their best to better their situation.
Just circumstances have become too overwhelming and forced them into a lifestyle they never imagined being in and they make the best of it and hope tomorrow will not be quite the struggle that it was today.

Quite.

And that covers the majority of the homeless.

Then you have the ones that are more than proud to collect food stamps because they know they have beaten the system.
They collect SS because they faked a mental illness.
They make babies just so they can continue to collect welfare and child support.
They sell their food stamps for 50 cents on the dollar and/or drugs.
They collect huge tax returns even though they haven't worked a day for years.
Section eight housing.
Fake their job searches so they can collect unemployment for another 6 months.
Yes, I am actually jealous of some of these deadbeat low lives because they pretty much get everything they need and want.

And that's a minority of the most deprived minority in society. So really, hardly anyone at all in the grand scheme of things. Certainly not enough to get worked up about - and most definitely not to be jealous of!

If you really are jealous - which I don't believe for an instant - go try living like that, see how long that jealousy lasts; how long before the jealousy is replaced with gratitude that you have other options and don't have to live like that.

In the mean time, might be worth considering that there but for the grace of god go all of us.

 

[sleedeane]

Quite.

And that covers the majority of the homeless.



And that's a minority of the most deprived minority in society. So really, hardly anyone at all in the grand scheme of things. Certainly not enough to get worked up about - and most definitely not to be jealous of!

If you really are jealous - which I don't believe for an instant - go try living like that, see how long that jealousy lasts; how long before the jealousy is replaced with gratitude that you have other options and don't have to live like that.

In the mean time, might be worth considering that there but for the grace of god go all of us.

True. Jealous was definitely the wrong word.
And where I live, between St. Louis and KC, what I say about a abusing the system isn't a very small minority.
You would be amazed.

 

[ElasticNinja]

I would think most of the people who live that way for any extended period probably suffer from some mental illness, not just aggravated laziness.

Yeah, most do, and need help. These people need housing, rehabilitation, and supervision. Many are indeed incapable of living on their own entirely and would be best placed in supervised units.

 

[Bob Maxey]

You live in Utah, a rich, all white state. And the Mormons like to buy their way into people's good graces to distract from their cultish ways. Go see how the homeless live in Detroit and I'm sure it will be a different story.

OK, apparently we are a rich white state.

We are mostly a white state. Fine, OK, but is that our fault? If black people want to move here, I say welcome. They can live anywhere they want in SLC unlike whites that will find living in Detroit to be a rather dangerous thing.

Just because we are mostly white does not mean we are racist, it means black people do not want to be here.

Mormons. Yup, they are everywhere and that is not necessarily a bad thing. And Utah is not the only state "run" by a religious group. Every state has some group with the ability to exert political force.

A rich state. Wow . . . you really think being a rich state is a bad thing? Seems if we are rich this Mormon controlled, all white state must be doing something right. Perhaps your state should visit us here and let us teach you how to be successful.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Trust me it's the fact that we DO understand what conservatism is that we are against it.

If you are against it, you are either a flaming liberal, a socialist or just not all that together. Fact is, true conservatism works every time it is tried. Socialism or liberalism democrats will not work and history shows they do not work.

Clearly, you have nary a clue as to what a conservative is or believes in.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Then you have the ones that are more than proud to collect food stamps because they know they have beaten the system.
They collect SS because they faked a mental illness.
They make babies just so they can continue to collect welfare and child support.
They sell their food stamps for 50 cents on the dollar and/or drugs.
They collect huge tax returns even though they haven't worked a day for years.
Section eight housing.
Fake their job searches so they can collect unemployment for another 6 months.
Yes, I am actually jealous of some of these deadbeat low lives because they pretty much get everything they need and want.

LOL . . . are you kidding me? Your post has nothing to do with reality. Sure, a few might engage in tactics to game the system, but I am not convinced most do. Not in my up close and personal investigation.

As for being jealous, do not be. It is a hard place to be.

 

[Bob Maxey]

I would think most of the people who live that way for any extended period probably suffer from some mental illness, not just aggravated laziness.

I have talked with many, and there are a small percentage of those with mental problems. Most are decent enough sorts stuck in a system that is hard to escape. A few cannot be trained to work in a modern office and because of their situation, employers find it hard to hire them for any number of reasons.

Over time, they become institutionalized and with every passing year, it becomes more difficult to escape.

And yes, some are lazy and they prefer to game the system.

 

[SiempreTuna]

I have talked with many, and there are a small percentage of those with mental problems. Most are decent enough sorts stuck in a system that is hard to escape. A few cannot be trained to work in a modern office and because of their situation, employers find it hard to hire them for any number of reasons.

Over time, they become institutionalized and with every passing year, it becomes more difficult to escape.

And yes, some are lazy and they prefer to game the system.

Bob's right on the money there.

 

[lightsleeper23]

If you are against it, you are either a flaming liberal, a socialist or just not all that together. Fact is, true conservatism works every time it is tried. Socialism or liberalism democrats will not work and history shows they do not work.

Clearly, you have nary a clue as to what a conservative is or believes in.

Well you can stomp your foot and insist I don't know what conservatism is all you want. I know in your conservative fantasy land you tell each other no one can possibly understand conservatism and not like it, but there's a whole real world here outside of that bubble, living in reality. And as much as you don't want to believe it, there are people that understand conservatism and, *gasp*, don't like it!