Hoping the RAZR doesn't whine like the Bionic

[Ninjak]

Having briefly owned a Bionic, I'm truly hoping that Motorola didn't replicate the same manufacturing error when it comes to the RAZR's audio output. Much as I've loved my Droid 1 and 2, particularly the solid Motorola build quality, the thought of experiencing more audio whine from another Motorola product released so soon after the Bionic leaves me a little gunshy. I love listening to music on my phone during my commutes and that was the dealbreaker for my Bionic which sadly had to be returned. I otherwise love the Droid series and want to see Motorola bounce back nicely. I'm still on the fence between the this, the Galaxy Nexus, and the HTC Rezound.

 

[Szadzik]

Having briefly owned a Bionic, I'm truly hoping that Motorola didn't replicate the same manufacturing error when it comes to the RAZR's audio output. Much as I've loved my Droid 1 and 2, particularly the solid Motorola build quality, the thought of experiencing more audio whine from another Motorola product released so soon after the Bionic leaves me a little gunshy. I love listening to music on my phone during my commutes and that was the dealbreaker for my Bionic which sadly had to be returned. I otherwise love the Droid series and want to see Motorola bounce back nicely. I'm still on the fence between the this, the Galaxy Nexus, and the HTC Rezound.

What I do is simply use a DAP - a device that specializes in playing music and is good at that. You will be much better off listening to music on a device like that than on your phone.

 

[rushmore]

The Droid 3 is great for audio with no distortion of sound. Problem is the light bleed has started on mine and came out of nowhere. Bad enough to where I will need to get a replacement. Bummer.

 

[pm1066]

What I do is simply use a DAP - a device that specializes in playing music and is good at that. You will be much better off listening to music on a device like that than on your phone.

Two questions:

1. Where do I get the Batman utility belt to hang all this crap off of?
2. Why shouldn't we expect a reasonably decent MP3 player off a phone? It's not even close to rocket science or new tech.

Not to be too facetious, but really, if the phone supports a feature, it should be relatively competant at the execution. If it has a built in MP3 player and a 3.5 mm audio jack, I expect that function to be a no brainer. I've been using my phones as MP3 players since I had a Q9M, and this is one thing that is will be an instant deal breaker--if this phone can't play my tunes, it doesn't come home with me.

 

[Szadzik]

Two questions:

1. Where do I get the Batman utility belt to hang all this crap off of?
2. Why shouldn't we expect a reasonably decent MP3 player off a phone? It's not even close to rocket science or new tech.

Not to be too facetious, but really, if the phone supports a feature, it should be relatively competant at the execution. If it has a built in MP3 player and a 3.5 mm audio jack, I expect that function to be a no brainer. I've been using my phones as MP3 players since I had a Q9M, and this is one thing that is will be an instant deal breaker--if this phone can't play my tunes, it doesn't come home with me.

1. mp3 players are not that big. Check Sansa Clip.
2. Because Jack who is of all trades is a master of none.

 

[rushmore]

There are a couple issues why we can not assume goodness from every device with mp3 function. Phones and audio-only devices no longer have a big sound gap in quality.

This stuff is not analog hardware, so the handling of GAIN in the chip parameters is VERY important. Low gain, weak a$$ audio. High gain, distorted audio. The gain curve in relation to volume needs to be in check, else too low or high. Due to EU restrictions, Archos is an example of sucky audio fidelity from 3.5mm jack. The gain & volume curve is off, so the audio output is too low and mid range dominated.

Then you get into the dynamic of headphones and the ohms, since the safest bet is getting buds with 16 ohm and no more. I even notice an output hit on my Droid 3 when using my 18 ohm Klipsch buds. Not so bad on the iPod4, but it has higher output.

The other issue is how the audio is managed on the device and the actual circuit and line isolation. This part apparently is where the DX2 and Bionic got things wrong. Some report the DX2 is better now, but store demo after updates still had the issues.

Added: I am a little picky with audio, since pick up if the sound stage is wrong, or highs & lows out of place. Phones have come a loooong way! Droid 3 is a little low output, but sounds good Sadly, the iPhone 4 & 4s have better output I have an iPod4 though and just as good

The Nokia N900 is probably the greatest sounding phone to date and same level as Cowan audio players. Shame that Maemo support by Nokia sucked. The N900 actually has a built-in, in line amp to help sound. How cool is that?!

 

[pm1066]

Yes, yes, yes, got all that. But, this is not a high end audio device, so I only expect competent execution, not mastery. I have a Sansa MP3 player which has been in the belly of my gym bag for a couple years, because for all practical purposes, the phone does the job well enough. I just don't spend that much time in my soundproof fortress of solitude to take advantage of uber audio. On the train, at the Gym, on a plane, doing yard work, competant with decent headphones is all I need.

But this issue isn't about excellent bass or solid reproduction of midtones. This is about a whine over the headphones. Totally different category of problem. For example:

1. "I don't like the shift band from 3rd to 4th in my car".
2. "My car has a blown transmission".
Totally different problem.

If they can't get the basic electronics down to where the jack and audio lines are isolated enough from the rest of the electronic noise to avoid whine, then they have truly screwed the pooch.

So, here's hoping the B-Team was on Bionic and the Razr got the A-Team...!

 

[Ninjak]

I used to use dedicated MP3 players from Creative all the time and they were great. But the great sound quality on my Droid 1 and 2 negated the need for that, particularly since I could slap a ton of music onto an sd card and shove it in. Like pm1066 was saying, the devices should at least perform the function competently. The audio whine on the Bionic completely ruins the experience and was inexcusable. I give Moto credit for fixing the loose audio jack problems that plagued the Droid 1. I just wonder, given how long the RAZR must have been in pre-launch production now, if Moto thought to even check for such a thing after the Bionic fiasco. Noone should have to go buy an attenuator or separate audio player to compensate for a defect. It's quite another story to buy a separate device to compensate for missing features or a need for high fidelty sound since it's a phone first and with music playback as an extra, albeit now pretty standard feature. And, even removing music from the picture, this would still be present in video playback. And for the many people who listen to audiobooks, that noise is most apparent and intolerable.

 

[jmt9779]

I used to use dedicated MP3 players from Creative all the time and they were great. But the great sound quality on my Droid 1 and 2 negated the need for that, particularly since I could slap a ton of music onto an sd card and shove it in. Like pm1066 was saying, the devices should at least perform the function competently. The audio whine on the Bionic completely ruins the experience and was inexcusable. I give Moto credit for fixing the loose audio jack problems that plagued the Droid 1. I just wonder, given how long the RAZR must have been in pre-launch production now, if Moto thought to even check for such a thing after the Bionic fiasco. Noone should have to go buy an attenuator or separate audio player to compensate for a defect. It's quite another story to buy a separate device to compensate for missing features or a need for high fidelty sound since it's a phone first and with music playback as an extra, albeit now pretty standard feature. And, even removing music from the picture, this would still be present in video playback. And for the many people who listen to audiobooks, that noise is most apparent and intolerable.

Did they make a real fix for it on following devices? (D2, D3, DX, DX2?) I'm still rocking an OG D1, my headphone jack has been shot for over a year, and now it's my biggest concern about buying another Motorola product.

TIA.

 

[Ninjak]

Did they make a real fix for it on following devices? (D2, D3, DX, DX2?) I'm still rocking an OG D1, my headphone jack has been shot for over a year, and now it's my biggest concern about buying another Motorola product.

TIA.

By the D2 (and perhaps the DX) it looks like they changed the design. It no longer looks like the entire innards of the jack will come out when you tug on your audio cable. Additionally, the hole for the jack built into the chassis is now the exact size of the pin. Previously, the chassis hole just surrounded the internal jack cylinder, allowing room for the cylinder to rock around with every pull of the cord. The "wiggle room" is now gone, which seems to have solved at least that issue.

 

[jmt9779]

By the D2 (and perhaps the DX) it looks like they changed the design. It no longer looks like the entire innards of the jack will come out when you tug on your audio cable. Additionally, the hole for the jack built into the chassis is now the exact size of the pin. Previously, the chassis hole just surrounded the internal jack cylinder, allowing room for the cylinder to rock around with every pull of the cord. The "wiggle room" is now gone, which seems to have solved at least that issue.

Outstanding! Thanks for the reply! Now we just gotta confirm no Bionic whine when this thing hits the streets...

 

[Ninjak]

Outstanding! Thanks for the reply! Now we just gotta confirm no Bionic whine when this thing hits the streets...

So far, it appears that Matt, who runs the Motorola support forums, says he doesn't hear it on the RAZR. Others are now asking what kind of specific testing has been done (quiet environment, quiet music or podcast, decent quality headphones, etc), so hopefully there'll be an update soon.

 

[Szadzik]

There are a couple issues why we can not assume goodness from every device with mp3 function. Phones and audio-only devices no longer have a big sound gap in quality.

This stuff is not analog hardware, so the handling of GAIN in the chip parameters is VERY important. Low gain, weak a$$ audio. High gain, distorted audio. The gain curve in relation to volume needs to be in check, else too low or high. Due to EU restrictions, Archos is an example of sucky audio fidelity from 3.5mm jack. The gain & volume curve is off, so the audio output is too low and mid range dominated.

Then you get into the dynamic of headphones and the ohms, since the safest bet is getting buds with 16 ohm and no more. I even notice an output hit on my Droid 3 when using my 18 ohm Klipsch buds. Not so bad on the iPod4, but it has higher output.

The other issue is how the audio is managed on the device and the actual circuit and line isolation. This part apparently is where the DX2 and Bionic got things wrong. Some report the DX2 is better now, but store demo after updates still had the issues.

Added: I am a little picky with audio, since pick up if the sound stage is wrong, or highs & lows out of place. Phones have come a loooong way! Droid 3 is a little low output, but sounds good Sadly, the iPhone 4 & 4s have better output I have an iPod4 though and just as good

The Nokia N900 is probably the greatest sounding phone to date and same level as Cowan audio players. Shame that Maemo support by Nokia sucked. The N900 actually has a built-in, in line amp to help sound. How cool is that?!

Tell me about audio. I currently have a Burson HA-160D as a DAC fed from my PC via USB going into Woo Audio WA2 and to that I connect Beyerdynamic T1 headphones - an audio bliss.

On the go I use Sony X1060 walkman with either Sennheiser MX980 buds or Brainwavz M3 IEMs (looking to replace them with something better).

I tried using my Galaxy Tab 10.1 for music and it was total crap compared to my Sony.

 

[xmr405o]

I heard from the people who applied the leaked 893 OTA update to their Bionic that the whining issue was fixed. I assume that Moto has applied those fixes to the Razr before launch.