Shortcomings of the industry

[Papamalo]

I agree with a lot of the opinions here, saying that at this point in the game, given kind of money that we're putting down for these phones, we do not want to be told how to use them. Variable RAM, personalized security, and access to every single setting we might use, are going to have to be a part of any phone business that wants to stay competitive in future markets.

The level of expertise that a lot of people have with mobile devices borders on programming, and we don't need a curated experience, we want total control over function, and the user experience.
This was initially one of the promises of the pure android platform to begin with. We would get to do what we wanted to, with our phones, when we wanted to.

Also I'm always marveling at the "one step forward two steps back" strategy seemingly employed by many companies, that makes you wonder whether it is manufacturing, design constraints, or planned obsolescence, that stops phone companies from making simple, and comprehensive steps up and forward, with each new model phone they make.

Some have a bigger screen and less RAM, some have more RAM, but the same lousy 3000 mAh battery. Others have a new snapdragon 835 processor, but then use a substandard CPU, or fail to increase the RAM by a couple of GB.

It seems like if model "A" has 4GB ram, a 5.5' inch screen, a 3000 mAh battery, and a snapdragon 650, that it's logical successor would have 6GB ram, a 5.7" screen and a 3400mAh battery, and a Snapdragon 835 chip along with whatever new bells and whistles a company wants to roll out.
Doesn't seem like that happens regularly.
I considered the fact that with better chips, perhaps less RAM might be needed, which might be why they will release a phone with a new chip and less ram than a previous phone, but I am not certain that my observation is accurate.
Speaking personally, I want total control over every aspect of the software on my phone, from how it unlocks, to how many GB RAM, to how long the battery life is, I want to select that, rather than have it bundled in to a phone.
Yes. I think that is what this is reminding me of. Early software bundling that got a lot of companies in trouble, we are forced to endure that every time one of these major companies releases a new phone.

Anyway, enough of my rant, this is the perfect place to let off a little bit of steam about what I feel are the general technological shortcomings in the advancement of mobile devices.
Thanks!

 

[Hadron]

There are a few things here I don't agree with, either because I think the principle of the argument is wrong or because, while I might like what you suggest, I think that the real market trend will be different from what you say it will have to be.

One where I disagree with the principle is where you say that the successor to a 5.5" 3000 mAh s650 would logically be a 5.7" 3400 mAh s835. The Snapdragon 600 and 800 series SoCs are different categories: the 600 are midrange, battery efficient, while the 800 are flagship SoCs. So the logical successor to a midrange phone is a better midrange phone, not a flagship - you can follow up with a flagship if you prefer, but then you are changing categories. I actually also disagree that the following year's phone should be bigger as well - hands don't get larger every year, so why should phones? Of course these days you have to specify aspect ratio as well as screen diagonal - a 5.7” 2:1 phone is smaller than a 5.5" 16:9 (something I'm sure marketing will do their best to keep the public confused about ).

I don't think you are right about direct successor phones being released with less ram - possibly you've compared devices at different points in a manufacturer's range. Battery capacity does sometimes decrease, but that is an area where processor and screen improvements can outweigh this. I'm not personally convinced that more ram is always better though: beyond some point it will have no meaningful effect on speed or multitasking, but it will consume energy. For certain a phone with 8GB ram will have worse standby battery drain than the same phone would have with 4GB. Everything is about finding the right balance.

As for the rest, control over all settings, sure, but between mass market commodification and emphasis on security (especially from business customers) the trends are in the opposite direction. The only way you'll get a free choice of ram is if manufacturers make the same model with different capacities (user-upgradeable ram is a non-starter technically), and as that increases production and distribution costs I doubt many will think it worthwhile. And stuff like "any unlock method", well you aren't going to get away from the manufacturer having to build the OS for the particular hardware, so I don't see how you can mandate what they include - the only thing you can do is vote with your wallet (which is more about getting what you want than changing manufacturers' decisions - unless vast numbers feel the same and the company actually understands the reason it makes no difference to them).

I know that sounds pessimistic, but I really started this because of one phrase you used: "any phone business that wants to stay competitive in future markets". That's where I think you are fundamentally wrong. Us enthusiasts are a small minority, and modders an even smaller minority within us. And targeting a niche is a good way of losing a lot of money (unless it's a large niche who are prepared to pay a lot extra). So I think that phone businesses that want to stay competitive will continue to target the mass market rather than us. You can still root and mod, provided you are sensible in choosing your handset, but even that is much less popular than it was: ROM downloads are down by an order of magnitude from their peak. So I don't think that we will be at all important to the competitiveness of phone businesses - some will remain open to modding, as that costs very little and provides some PR in some circles, but personally I believe the future of smartphones is going to be in commodification more than customisation.

 

[Papamalo]

"hands don't get larger every year, so why should phones? " you got me there. Lol.

You make some good points and I'll have to concede the argument. I guess I am still rueing some of the things I think motorola in particular missed, in their offering after google sold them to lenovo, and couldn't really understand them.
My ultimate dreamboat phone would have been a MXPE with a 6 inch screen, 6GB ram, and 835, and a 3400 mAh battery, and I guess I was just being unrealistically optimistic. It led to this crazy search, where I compared dozens of phones, bought one and returned it, (An otherwise nearly-perfect Xiaomi Mi Mix 2, but for the fact that it won't wake up on voice command) and after all that, am settling on an LG V30 for my needs. Is has all those slight bump ups, 3 to 4 GB larger screen, better battery, It just seemed like a no-brainer after the MXPE.
I guess what I am conveying is more consumer opinion or customer dissatisfaction, and it came off like expert opinion.
Ah. What the heck. I don't mind being wrong in good conversational company. BUT GOD DAMMED LENOVO. Lol.

So you really think non modular phones are the future?
Thanks!
PM

 

[zuben el genub]

Any phone I buy, I usually buy by spec. It HAS to run my large visual database apps fairly fast and run them well. I don't care if it can whistle Dixie and give me an experience (that's mostly disabled). When I want an answer as to what bird I am looking at, I want an answer, the sooner the better. I usually like having a fairly decent camera on the phone, also.

I've always upgraded computers that way. I usually headed for the tech service I use with a list of Photoshop's requirements for good usage. He'd find the parts to fit.

 

[Hadron]

Modularity is an interesting idea, but right now I don't see it taking off.

Modular peripherals are one thing, though they've not been hugely successful so far. Moto Mods have been the most successful, or at least the longest lasting, but there aren't many of them and I suspect most have not sold well. And they do constrain the design of the phone. LG's "friends" for the G5 went nowhere. Essential's version doesn't constrain the design as much, but they are a tiny company and I think still only have one (the 360 camera) available - though writing this it occurs to me that you could build a battery case that used their connector and leave the usb free. Wonder whether they've thought of that? But those 3 are the only current or recent examples I can think of.

Making core components modular is harder. Integration brings benefits of size, speed and reliability, and of course the IP ratings that people expect in high-end phones these days will be harder with a modular design. I know that Google are not known for their sticking power with projects, but the history of Ara tells us that they found it harder than expected, and they have a lot of money to burn on experiments. Most companies cannot afford to place a big bet and get it wrong, and those who could are actually a lot more conservative in reality than their marketing claims (and why rock the boat when you are among the few making money in this business? You can copy quickly, or improve on someone else's idea, if it looks like going somewhere).

So I don't think there will be a general modular phone in the near future. Most of the things people would like to upgrade are the hard ones (before it was cancelled I think the Ara prototypes had already dropped the idea of replaceable processors). Cameras should be doable, but for all of the hype about dual camera modules the real developments in smartphone photography are computational these days. I just don't see it right now: done well it could be attractive, but that will take time and money, and be a risk. And how many manufacturers would do it? Competing, incompatible modular systems wouldn't have much appeal to me, but it's hard to imagine the major manufacturers getting together and agreeing a standard in reasonable length of time.

Personally I suspect that by the time this idea takes off in reality smartphones will already be in decline. I don't think anyone yet knows what will replace them, but the smartphone as we know it now is about a decade old: how much would you bet on it still being the dominant personal technology a decade from now?

 

[PitCarver]

This old guy can only understand about half of what Hadron says, but for what Papamalo says, to me, is when it's time for a new phone, I want something better than what I had.

When my old S5 gave up the ghost, I searched and searched for the "Better for me" phone. It wasn't there, so I bought another S5.
I'm the kind of user that Hadron says the industry builds for, but come-on, I don't need a camera that can make a cartoon of my selfie. I just want one that works. My needs are simple, but shouldn't a new phone have enough RAM to satisfy the average user without bogging down under the load of basic system requirements.
Shouldn't they have enough storage to contain new apps that seem to be needed these days.
Shouldn't the battery be able to last throughout a normal day.

I'm near the low end of requirements here, and even I'm not satisfied with what is being made available.

 

[Hadron]

A camera that can make a cartoon out of a selfie is easy: there's been an app called Paper Camera around for at least 6 or 7 years - any phone can do that .

I think there are plenty of phones out there that can meet those requirements. And you know what, another S5 isn't a bad idea - with its removable battery and plastic casing it's more robust than many current phones. But really any semi-decent recent phone should be able to run without bogging down. After all, almost all will have faster processors and at least as much RAM as the S5 (or my old HTC M7, whose only real problem is a 5 year old battery). Mega specs shouldn't be needed, so any recent phone that does bog down is probably due to the manufacturer being indifferent to software optimisation.

Storage, though, that is a pet hate of mine. Again, plenty of phones that are fine, but there are also many that manufacturers are happy to sell that really don't have enough to be usable these days. Personally I think there should be legal penalties imposed on any manufacturer or carrier still selling 8GB handsets in the last 2 years - that's absolutely inadequate, and just guarantees wasted money and endless frustration for anyone unfortunate enough to buy one. But that's the problem: at the bottom end they cut corners to make them cheap, and storage is the worst corner to cut. And then some ignoramus in a store will sell it to some poor person who knows nothing about phones and trusts them to give good advice...

 

[Papamalo]

@Hadron I re-watched an older MKBHD video of the ARA project, and found in the comments much the same conversation that you and I are having here. The promise of future tech, flying cars, android moms, and mass-scale robot vehicles, (they're actually kind of close to making that a reality) sometimes doesn't pan out to satisfy consumer fantasy, but it does branch out into areas unknown.
I remember this one scene from the Spielberg movie "AI", at the end, where advanced beings are excavating the frozen waste of the world that David, a "Mecha" that resembles a human child, lived, and as they approach they are in a fast moving vehicle, that completely disassembles and floats away in pieces when it lands as they step out.

This stayed with me, as the idea of modular non-fixed technology, And has influenced some of my design ideas, (I design advanced aquatic rescue equipment, as a personal project) and I guess, I must admit that at some point I really did think we'd be laving in a "world of the future" where everything was upgradable and modular. I fear that you are correct though, because if google can't pull it off, (And they have the greatest metric growth study department in the world) who can?
On the bright side, many people thought space exploration would remain a NASA-only affair and that was wrong. One can hope.

My Absolutely wild prediction: Bezos will design an Amazon Phone to compete with all phone companies, and also provide his own carrier service. Bets anyone?

It's great to have an exchange with a cogent conversationalist.
Thanks.

 

[Member243850]

They don't want you to remove the battery, they don't want you to upgrade anything,

All they want you to do is keep spending money more and more and more money on less and less and less!

You get less than what you used to get but it costs more!

At least you could change your battery before since the dinosaurs roamed the earth

But not anymore!

They don't even care about screwing up the environment!

They only care about money even when it blatantly shows how evil they are.