Task Killers - do they really harm Android?

[6StringDave]

I know this discussion seems to have ended a year ago, but if you're done rolling your eyes yet, I don't have the tinfoil-hat mentality for killing all open, or even background-running apps. I recently found a couple of very good reasons why I sometimes want to kill certain apps. 1: Car black box apps, which won't stop recording unless you do something to stop them, and 2. the Navigation app, which won't shut up and will burn your battery after you leave your car.

Let's say you are driving with these two apps running, which you have launched from Custom Car Home, and you have reached your destination. Ployd Black Box and Navigation, among other possible apps which are running need to be shut down, and then you also want to exit Car Home back to your normal home screen before you exit your car with your phone. So I added a Tasker widget to my Car Home panel which kills all these strictly-car-mode apps (Tasker has had somewhat limited success at doing this with Froyo if your phone is rooted). This is certainly more convenient (or would be if it worked perfectly) than dealing with the exit routine for three to five concurrently-running apps, and the ability to do this successfully would reduce the hazard factor behind the wheel!

The problem (?) is that we aren't supposed to kill apps like this, although I don't really see how it's different than the normal way in which I would shut one down. If it would offend you that I refer to the much-bandied statement "task killers damage Android" as dogma, well dogma is an idea which is presented as authorative without explanation, and not to be questioned. I've seen this attitude abound in Android discussions, where no attempt was made to define this "damage" in layman's terms. To begin with, is the "Android damage" contained to the session, or can it be long-term? If the latter, then how? And is there truly no workaround where the convenience of shutting down numerous apps simultaneously is desired?

 

[KaosStorm]

The task killer discussion is so far from a dogma it's not even funny.

There are several, and I mean several, outlets of discussion about the pros/cons of task killers in regards to the Android OS, even inside this very forum. Let me give you two external examples:

Droid Den - Android Guide: Should I Use a Task Killer
AndroidSPIN - Why you don’t need a task killer app with Android.

And about the normal way of exiting an app? Very few apps actually have an exit option in themselves, and that's because of the way Android handles memory (details can be found on both links above), so the only thing you do it's putting them in the background, to be readily available when you need them again; if for whatever reason your phone chokes on memory, Android has it's way of killing low priority apps and whatnot.

The thing is, using or not using a task killer app ends up being your prerrogative and only yours; the best thing you can do it's inform yourself on the matter and choose which way to go.

 

[Saltine713]

Very few realize that even with a task killer, the app will just open itself back up. The task killer takes up more battery life and RAM than the app that is getting shut off for a few seconds.

 

[aysiu]

I recently found a couple of very good reasons why I sometimes want to kill certain apps. 1: Car black box apps, which won't stop recording unless you do something to stop them, and 2. the Navigation app, which won't shut up and will burn your battery after you leave your car.

When I'm in the Navigation app, I can press the Menu button, and the first thing I see is an Exit option. How difficult is that? It's certainly a lot easier than using a task killer to kill Navigation.

If it would offend you that I refer to the much-bandied statement "task killers damage Android" as dogma, well dogma is an idea which is presented as authorative without explanation, and not to be questioned.

There is actually quite a bit of explanation. In addition to what KaosStorm linked to above, there's also this:
http://androidforums.com/android-applications/335110-why-you-dont-need-task-killer.html#post2681361

You can question it all you want, but every explanation I've seen from the "But task killers are good" side have exhibited a fundamental misunderstanding of how Android functions and what a "running" app is and isn't. (See linked-to thread above for many examples of this.)

 

[6StringDave]

When I'm in the Navigation app, I can press the Menu button, and the first thing I see is an Exit option. How difficult is that? It's certainly a lot easier than using a task killer to kill Navigation.

Sheeeeesh - thanks for bothering to read what I posted on WHY I want to kill specific apps! Maybe you didn't know this, but you can run a black box app to record what happens with your car, and it will do this while you follow a Navigation route. Both apps are launched from one more app which needs to be shut down before you undock your phone - this one is your car dock, it's a specialized home-screen app which provides a more car-safe environment than your normal home screen. Other apps for traffic or speed trap alerts, and then of course your music can be run with all this too, but at the end of the drive it just royally sucks when you have to go back into each app's UI just to shut it down! You really don't want to be doing this while you are looking for a parking spot, you hate sitting in your car after you have parked just to deal with these, and these specific apps are running processes which need to be ended before you can take your phone out of your car. It is just beyond ridiculous that these apps, or at least the processes which they run, cannot be safely terminated through some automation. Moreover, it is just Apple-mentality offensive that the development of such safe process management gets scuttled by a system development culture which presumes its users would only want that because they are stupid!

There is actually quite a bit of explanation. In addition to what KaosStorm linked to above, there's also this:
http://androidforums.com/android-applications/335110-why-you-dont-need-task-killer.html#post2681361

You can question it all you want, but every explanation I've seen from the "But task killers are good" side have exhibited a fundamental misunderstanding of how Android functions and what a "running" app is and isn't. (See linked-to thread above for many examples of this.)

And here you go with another dogma - that anyone who dares question the Froyo-introduced anti-task-kill module really doesn't know the difference between a running app and one which is cached! If you had read what I had already posted, you would know that this is not what I am asking about!

The presumption that I wouldn't know which or figure out which apps need to stay running is just plain insulting, and even if I did make the mistake which would run down my battery by setting an automated task killer on an app which is trying to run a scheduled data download or update, this still doesn't count as system "damage". The fact is that Froyo will not allow you to kill an app which is running, whether you run a one-time kill loop or set an automated killer which would continually fight it. The problem is that there are valid uses for closing apps without dealing with the UI of each app on the list. None of the shill (for Skype, Facebook, CityID, Twitter, VZNavigator and other crap-apps which will consume more of your phone memory with each update) account for the over-generalized statement that it "damages android" when you do a non-automated kill of an app which you know that you don't want to have running, nor open at the moment, even when you know exactly why it's running. By seeding such over-generalizations, they promote the fear that you will damage your system apps by trying to kill the commercial apps which you would be happy to just remove, if scum-infested Verizon didn't make it so difficult.

 

[Stuntman]

It sounds to me like there needs to be some mechanism and app that will not necessarily kill a set of apps, but will close those apps as though you went through those necessary steps to exit the app properly, or at least prevent the use of resources like the GPS. I'm not an Android developer, so I'm not sure if this is possible. It would be nice to have an app that can integrate into your navigation, black box and other apps and close them down properly rather than force close them. I think that is what you really want.

Using a task killer will stop a selected set of apps, but perhaps not elegantly as closing each app on its own. As for possible harm, it may just cause your phone to reload those apps. They will likely not restart with GPS or logging functions activated when they were forced closed. There might be a better way to stop a set of apps than force closing with an app killer. If you simply want a quick way of stopping certain functions of a set of apps that actually do background processing, it sounds like an app killer will do that. Even if those apps are reloaded after being forced closed, it will probably drain your battery less (and use less time) than stopping these functions via the UI of all of those apps because you need the screen to be on to use the UI.

 

[6StringDave]

It sounds to me like there needs to be some mechanism and app that will not necessarily kill a set of apps, but will close those apps as though you went through those necessary steps to exit the app properly, or at least prevent the use of resources like the GPS. I'm not an Android developer, so I'm not sure if this is possible. It would be nice to have an app that can integrate into your navigation, black box and other apps and close them down properly rather than force close them. I think that is what you really want.

Using a task killer will stop a selected set of apps, but perhaps not elegantly as closing each app on its own. As for possible harm, it may just cause your phone to reload those apps. They will likely not restart with GPS or logging functions activated when they were forced closed. There might be a better way to stop a set of apps than force closing with an app killer. If you simply want a quick way of stopping certain functions of a set of apps that actually do background processing, it sounds like an app killer will do that. Even if those apps are reloaded after being forced closed, it will probably drain your battery less (and use less time) than stopping these functions via the UI of all of those apps because you need the screen to be on to use the UI.

Thank you so much for seeing that there is potentially a good-sense use for the use of an app killer in some form, to at least some extent! The reason that I am frustrated, to the point of exasperation over this is that more effective tools for this are in need of development, but it will never happen while the trusted authorities slam their foot down on anything which even remotely comes under the label "task killer".

I have tried using Tasker to do this, which will try and do it if you have root, but with some apps it will only stop the running process, still leaving you to deal with the annoying confirmation loop. I don't suppose there is any way around this at the system level, therefore it is likely impossible for a third-party app to deal wnuith each app's UI. However, I have never seen the Android->Manage Apps->Force Stop action fail under any conditions to quiet an app. If it wants to re-launch when this is done, that's fine by me so long as it don't continue packing my SD card with continuous video recording, and Navigation doesn't resume it's chatter, and both are likely. However, the process of doing this is only less convenient, but if car home apps were programmed with the option to stop any apps which were launched from in a session while it is being shut down, I would be quite happy with that.

 

[jefboyardee]

So, if killers are either pointless or harmful, why does the recent release of Gingerbread for the Optimus S include one?

(At least, they say it does -- I don’t know since I’ve blocked the update due to endless complaints.)

 

[Saltine713]

So, if killers are either pointless or harmful, why does the recent release of Gingerbread for the Optimus S include one?

(At least, they say it does -- I don

 

[Stuntman]

It might just be bloatware from the update. But whatever the reason, it is still harmful no matter what anyone says.

In what way are task killers harmful if used only to quickly terminate several apps with a single tap of the screen?

 

[Saltine713]

In what way are task killers harmful if used only to quickly terminate several apps with a single tap of the screen?

The termination part. Android is meant to multitask. Killing apps makes it do something it wasn't intended to do. Not only does the task killer use a lot of battery power, it also is nonfunctional.

If you kill an app that opened itself, it will just reopen in a short time. It is part of the permissions agreement of the phone and app. No task killer can change that.

 

[6StringDave]

The termination part. Android is meant to multitask. Killing apps makes it do something it wasn't intended to do.

Android is meant to multitask, but not entirely on it 's own agenda. That sentiment aside, this post is not about shutting down apps which the user knows nothing about automatically, just because he sees them listed as "running in the background". Furthermore, you don't make the app do anything which it is not intended to do when you kill it, nor do anything at all other than stop doing anything!

Not only does the task killer use a lot of battery power, it also is nonfunctional.

If you kill an app that opened itself, it will just reopen in a short time. It is part of the permissions agreement of the phone and app. No task killer can change that.

Only because Google decided to prevent task killers from doing their job, beginning with Froyo! Did you even know that? Also, this can be circumvented by certain apps although some fail to actually close some of the apps in question. Tasker, in this case, leaves me with the confirm-exit nag of the app in question, which happens not because the app needs to remain open for anything, but only because the developer is fond of nags.

Did you even read what I had posted (at least twice on this thread) that there are intelligent (not automated) uses for single-push-button task stopping of multiple apps? If I end up stopping an app which wants to update, than maybe Google can find a way to see that it is still able to do this - what's important to me is that I can easily shut up Navigation (should I decide to alter my route or stop somewhere), ditto with traffic alert apps, and my black box MUST stop recording when I exit the vehicle!

 

[Omar Days]

all i know is back in the day when i had my first android phone, htc magic, i installed task killer and it slowed and lagged the phone like a bitch. so bad that i honestly thought the phone was breaking on me or had a virus. after trying everything, i uninstalled it and it was back to normal and snappy again.

since then i've never installed any task killers on my other phones. that was enough for me to realise how crap they are for the os

 

[6StringDave]

all i know is back in the day when i had my first android phone, htc magic, i installed task killer and it slowed and lagged the phone like a bitch. so bad that i honestly thought the phone was breaking on me or had a virus. after trying everything, i uninstalled it and it was back to normal and snappy again.

since then i've never installed any task killers on my other phones. that was enough for me to realise how crap they are for the os

And I have not in any way advocated the indiscriminate use of task killers, especially when they are set for automatic kill. I am only interested in using what may be referred to as a remotely similar device, for the purpose of stopping running apps from running processes when your usage conditions change. Multitasking is great, but while your processes can run simultaneously, the only way to simultaneously stop any of them when they are no longer needed is to shut down your phone .

 

[jefboyardee]

Okay, since I don’t have the update specific to my phone, Gingerbread is Gingerbread, right? And for anyone that has it on their phone, does it have a built-in taskiller? If it does, that means it’s not tagalongware provided by my carrier; it’s googleware, which means they _think_ it has useful purpose. And they’re _supposed_ to know more than all of us put together...

 

[Stuntman]

I do feel that there are some reasonable uses for task killers. Some people use task killers for a purpose that task killers don't end up doing. I have seen people use task killers to save battery life which it does not do.

The OP seems to have a legitimate use for a task killer. He wants to manually end a set of apps that do background processing without having to go into every single app and making a few to several taps each to exit and stop this background processing. A task killer can be set up so it will kill this set of apps with only a single tap (or maybe a few, but far less than you would otherwise). When these tasks are killed, the background processing stops. Even of Android restarts these processes, it appears with these particular set of apps, the background processing does not restart.

As for any possible harm, there may be possible data corruption if the app is not written properly to take into account possible forced closes. It will take processing power when Android restarts these apps. Since this is a one time event whenever the OP leaves his car, any battery drain will be negligible. It's not like he's killing these apps every few minutes of the day.

As for my personal experience, I had one incident where I used a task killer and it fixed some battery drain issue on my phone. I used it one time only. I used it on a couple of other occasions and it didn't really improve things. Right now, I haven't had any issues on my phone of late so did not resort to using the task killer for some time.

 

[kazvorpal]

It might just be bloatware from the update. But whatever the reason, it is still harmful no matter what anyone says.

This is exactly the kind of dogmatic nonsense he keeps pointing out, correctly, as being unhelpful.

None of you have said ANYTHING to support the premise that using a task killer "harms" Android.

I'm an android app developer, and I don't know of any reason to think that an app killer COULD be harmful to Android.

The closest, in an article linked above, is the claim that an app killed might have been shared by multiple systems. Even if this were "harmful" (and it's not), that would not mean that task killers are harmful, only that they could possibly be used in a harmful way.

And, as I noted parenthetically, it is harmless anyway, because a well-written app will simply re-invoke the missing task.

This looks like yet another example of people deciding that, since the accurate, reasonable "task killers are usually unnecessary" did not cause complete, abject, unquestioning compliance from everyone, they had to escalate with ridiculous hyperbole.

Dogma is precisely the correct term.

 

[jerofld]

Could task killers be useful in some specific scenario? Of course. Would an Android newbie who just bought their first Android 2 days ago be able to recognize this scenario and utilize a task killer efficiently in Gingerbread? I highly doubt it, and the chances of that dwindle if they're not computer savvy.

So, when someone says "Hi, I'm new to Android, should I use a task killer?" and a very large majority of us say "No", it is just the simple answer. When they learn what their use of the phone is and find a need for an application that can shut down many other applications quickly, I'm sure they'll get a task killer. But telling them on their first week of Android use that task killers are good could, very easily, drive them down the road where they have the task killer trying to kill system resources and the system keep trying to bring it back into memory.

 

[chanchan05]

Samsung has a built in task killer on android 2.2.1, but ib only allows you to kill apps which are using up RAM but zero cpu usage on one click. Technically its just a RAM cache delete option. There is a panel for force closing open apps, but the only reason i see to use that is for the rogue app that hangs up.

 

[DoDodorant]

I don't know of any reason to think that an app killer COULD be harmful to Android.

Well, task killers do slow down the whole system in many phones! And it does eat battery! So you have to recharge sooner and longer. But those effects are not irreversible. They don't 'break' anything in Android. So you can't say that task killers actually harm Android.
But those above mentioned effects can make a task killer a bloody nuisance to the phone's owner/user! It's always a trade-off.

 

[6StringDave]

Could task killers be useful in some specific scenario? Of course. Would an Android newbie who just bought their first Android 2 days ago be able to recognize this scenario and utilize a task killer efficiently in Gingerbread? I highly doubt it, and the chances of that dwindle if they're not computer savvy.

So, when someone says "Hi, I'm new to Android, should I use a task killer?" and a very large majority of us say "No", it is just the simple answer. When they learn what their use of the phone is and find a need for an application that can shut down many other applications quickly, I'm sure they'll get a task killer. But telling them on their first week of Android use that task killers are good could, very easily, drive them down the road where they have the task killer trying to kill system resources and the system keep trying to bring it back into memory.

In that case we can, if we feel like educating a newbie, start by asking why they think they need a task killer. If not, then just say that they are risky, and best left to advanced users. But instead, the experts say "don't ever use one, you don't need one". This message is observed by the developers, the Android executives remain satisfied that they will never need be bothered with finding a way to allow useful task management without leaving them open to abuse, and the smart Android user loses!