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Technically, how does Verizon Droid GPS get coordinates?

NewRodeo

Lurker
I had some friends stranded in the mountains. They texted us their coordinates. The next day, Search and Rescue was getting GPS coordinates from Verizon "pinging" their phone. The various sets of coordinates were very different and some distance apart. Most were not their actual location.

We are trying to learn how the Verizon system works, along with the SAR protocols & such, so that we can be better educated & of help to SAR.

Does it use WGS84 datum?
Does it use a cell tower(s) when in the mountains? They only had one tower, but I would presume GPS coordinates would only come from the GPS chip.
Does terrain or high power lines interfere with the GPS signal to the phone?

Thank you.
 
Hello NewRodeo. Welcome to Android Forums.

There are a few Verizon reps and former reps who cruise this Verizon sub-forum where I've dropped your thread for you.

Meanwhile, I think that triangulation via nearest towers is used for some of the location data, but you're right, specifics for teaching will be needed. Let's see who comes along with the knowledge to share here.
 
Location works on signal triangulation and some math for time of arrival.

That works conceptually the same whether using tower signals or GPS, but GPS is far more accurate. Either can be impacted by obstructions or environmental factors.

I'm not qualified to say how Verizon was operating for that event, so I would rather not speculate. Hopefully, this scant info I have tossed out will clarify a little.

Fwiw, this may help help with the Earth model part of your question, as GPS uses the WGS84 model -

GpsPasSion Forums - GPS altitude : wgs84 / msl / geodetic corrections
 
So they're blending the systems. That and out experience indicates that the phone systems should be treated as non-precision. Therefore of limited value and not preferred for rescue operations.

Is there a way to make the phone uses GPS only?

I will be looking into the environmental factors in that area; high-power lines, trees, etc. So we can compare.

Thanks
 
So they're blending the systems. That and out experience indicates that the phone systems should be treated as non-precision. Therefore of limited value and not preferred for rescue operations.

Is there a way to make the phone uses GPS only?

Yes, sort of. Typically there is a location based setting but it's under privacy, so some people turn that off for fear of google tracking them. Suggest that's a bad idea for hikers.

Some people go into their settings or use a homescreen widget to turn off their GPS radio in their phone. Suggest that's a bad idea for hikers.

GPS works by first getting almanac and ephemeris data, then zeroing in location by constant satellite updates. Cell phones, unlike dedicated GPS receivers that get almanac and ephemeris from the GPS constellation, employ aGPS, aka assisted GPS, and get the seed data from the internet. Suggest that before hikers leave the city, launch Google Maps or GPS Status, both of which are free, to get their GPS systems dialed up and running. I would recommend Google Maps so you can tell at a glance if your phone is showing your location properly, and to check the Android notification bar for a little satellite dish icon - it confirms that the GPS radio is on and tying to the phone operations.

GPS location quality varies by phone make and model. Some will get you within a city block while others are so accurate it's downright scary. Good way to check, use Google Maps with the satellite view of your location and see how well the on screen location indicator matches your obviously visible position. Now, go for a walk, see if it continues to maintain good accuracy.

I guess that these are more usage tips than anything, and so I don't know if it is useful (or even new to you info) for SAR ops.

Anyway, hope this helps!

PS on cell phone aGPS - once on GPS better phones will stay on GPS unless there is a signal loss, at which point they will automatically switch to tower triangulation in an attempt to maintain position information. As soon as the GPS signal is reacquired, it uses that exclusively and will iterate to maximum location accuracy for that unit.

If a hiker gets hurt, but has a good skyview, about a 120 degree cone in a perfect world, if they place their phone on dry surface and just leave it be, running something like GPS Status, that phone will eventually get almanac and ephemeris from the constellation and eventually get a good location. This too will vary by model and state of the last ephemeris table, but from reports in our forums, typically can take from a few minutes to a half hour.

The rule of thumb for a cell phone, the more visible sky, the higher the GPS accuracy.
 
One more thing, Google Maps gets its data from the internet, and you likely won't have that on site. However, you can download your target map area before going out in the field and have that map handy without internet access.
 
Agreed, nothing will beat a dedicated GPS unit. However, some in your organization might be interested in giving an Android device a try at this.

Android phones come in many styles and varieties, but almost all of them have one thing in common, they tend to be stylish. Except for the Casio G'zOne Commando, offered on Verizon. Those beasts are designed with outdoor ruggedness first and foremost, and can be used well with gloves. A number of firefighters are forum members here and the ones that I have spoken to swear by it.

Here is the maker's website for it where you can review the toughness specs in MIL-STD terms, and a review giving its GPS good marks.

CASIO G'zOne COMMANDO

Casio G'zOne Commando Review (Video) - Verizon Wireless

Not trying to sell you a phone or Android, I wanted to toss this out because SAR means any weather and tough conditions, and I thought that this might be good kit for some of your troops who might be interested.
 
If safety is involved, trusting a phone GPS isn't exactly the way to go. There is a reason dedicated GPS is still around, and why they cost so much
 
I'd argue that point just a little.

For one, a "dedicated" GPS is often using very similar (if not functionally identical) to the receivers found in our phones, especially when looking at at the lower-cost devices. The SiRF Star receivers in Garmin's entry and mid-level units are compact and low-power, but use an imprecise shotgun blast technique of collecting many data points and averaging them (usually with excellent results), vs. the "single bullet" precision of better receivers.

If you're incapacitated, or don't have a way of communicating (no phone, radio or beacon), the most expensive, precise, long-battery life dedicated GPS receiver is worthless. Yet even a "dumb" cell phone will give rescuers a signal to track, IF they know to come looking for you.

The real reason dedicated GPSs are around is due to their ruggedness, battery life, form factor, pre-loaded maps, and GPS-specific controls. But not for communication ability.

In fact, the only knock I can think of against a cell phone GPS is battery life. If personal safety ("just in case") is the ultimate goal, I'd rather be carrying a cell phone than a dedicated GPS. And I'd rather be carrying a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB, i.e. SPOT transmitter), since they don't rely on cell phone coverage.
 
How does verizon get your gps coordinates....in an inconspicuous and non chalant manner, gradually look over your right shoulder. See that black van.......
 
If personal safety ("just in case") is the ultimate goal, I'd rather be carrying a cell phone than a dedicated GPS. And I'd rather be carrying a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB, i.e. SPOT transmitter), since they don't rely on cell phone coverage.


Check this device out then!

Earthmate PN-60w with Topo North America and inReach for PN-60w - DeLorme

Dedicated GPS with full satellite communication ability with no need to have cellular connection. And a nice rugged device with great battery life. I have a DeLorme PN-40 myself, great device!
 
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