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Worse Than China? U.S. Government Wants To Censor Search Engines And Browsers

Worse Than China? U.S. Government Wants To Censor Search Engines And Browsers | Demand Progress

"We knew that members of Congress and their business allies were gearing up to pass a revised Internet Blacklist Bill -- which more than 325,000 Demand Progress members helped block last winter -- but we never expected it to be this atrocious. Last year's bill has been renamed the "PROTECT IP" Act and it is far worse than its predecessor. A summary of it is posted below.

Senators Leahy and Hatch pretended to weigh free speech concerns as they revised the bill. Instead, the new legislation would institute a China-like censorship regime in the United States, whereby the Department of Justice could force search engines, browsers, and service providers to block users' access to websites, and scrub the American Internet clean of any trace of their existence."


http://leahy.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/BillText-PROTECTIPAct.pdf

Great Firewall of America... o_O.
 
Sorry but this will be nothing like the China situation.

Do you really expect the US Government to block sites like BBC News just because they might have news items embarrassing to the regime? :rolleyes:
 
are they going to block porn? I can't live without my porn! Hunger Strike...Hunger Strike!
 
Sorry but this will be nothing like the China situation.

Do you really expect the US Government to block sites like BBC News just because they might have news items embarrassing to the regime? :rolleyes:

I wouldn't put it past them, to be frank. Every year, canada looks better and better. America, home of the free, MY ASS!
 
I wouldn't put it past them, to be frank. Every year, canada looks better and better. America, home of the free, MY ASS!
I don't see how either party will lock down websites that criticise the government or w/ever
That really only happens in single party states

****not that I agree with this****
 
Sorry but this will be nothing like the China situation.

Do you really expect the US Government to block sites like BBC News just because they might have news items embarrassing to the regime? :rolleyes:

Agreed. This is a corporate bill designed to protect copyright interests. RIAA and MPAA have been vigorously pursuing lawsuits for years without this legislation.

The "side effect" is of course the ability of the government to "legally" censor pretty much anything. Wikileaks demonstrates the US government's inability to effectively do that.
 
Whether it gets as bad as China or not isn't the problem. Why should ANYTHING on the net be censored? It is absolutely unacceptable.

Pirating of digital media is problematic. Let the owners figure out a way to deal with it. Giving the government censorship power is not the way. It all starts by imposing on your rights for the greater good and evolves into a beast that eventually becomes to great to control.

The greatest issue I have with piracy is that there is no proof of how much companies are actually losing. How many people that pirate content would actually go out and pay for it? They have it because it's free. If it wasn't free, they wouldn't have it. Make content worth paying for, and people will pay. It's a pretty simple concept.
 
Whether it gets as bad as China or not isn't the problem. Why should ANYTHING on the net be censored? It is absolutely unacceptable.

Pirating of digital media is problematic. Let the owners figure out a way to deal with it. Giving the government censorship power is not the way. It all starts by imposing on your rights for the greater good and evolves into a beast that eventually becomes to great to control.

The greatest issue I have with piracy is that there is no proof of how much companies are actually losing. How many people that pirate content would actually go out and pay for it? They have it because it's free. If it wasn't free, they wouldn't have it. Make content worth paying for, and people will pay. It's a pretty simple concept.

Absolutely, censorship is a bad idea and the government has no right to censor the net. However, one could argue that some things should be removed, like illegal software, music, movies, child porn, sites that promote or encourage the death of the president, and the like. To be clear, in the examples above it is not censorship; it is simply the government enforcing the law.

An example of censorship would be the government removing or demanding the removal of content that puts the president in a bad light. For example, punishing Limbaugh for his comments about Obama posted on his web site is one example. They have already tried to do something like this by the way, and nobody mentions Limbaugh's battles with Harry Reid and Congress.

Pirating is a huge problem and there are a few things site owners can do. For example, YouTube could scrub their servers of illegally posted material and cancel accounts after ONE warning, but that is costly to do.

Therefore, if they won't do it voluntarily so the only option is to force them to do so. Then we are back to complaining that the government is "censoring" the net.

Or perhaps in the case of music, some sort of DRM could be used that make copying music impossible. Then the public screams, and lots of people start fighting about the evils of DRM. Rather, they continue the fights that is ongoing.

Or the IP owners could sue you for stealing or hosting illegal IP, then they are the bad guys. Or your web host could delete your web site and/or cancel your email address. I agree, a terrible idea.

So let me ask you this: what would you suggest IP owners do that is fair and reasonable and guarantees those that create are paid for it and does not involve Uncle Sam's intervention?

If I write an article and post in on my web site, it might not have much monetary value, but if you copy and post it, you are breaking the law. I have several articles I wrote about using DR-DOS from Digital Research. The value is nil because the OS is long gone. The value has nothing to do with it; it is mine and until I give you written permission to use the material, you have no right to use it.

There are places to DL the entire Beatles library and many people are not paying for content that is unquestionably worth paying for. If they can get something they love for free, they will steal it.

Your last paragraph is tricky, so forgive me in advance, but I think you are part of the problem. Rather, your reasoning is part of the problem. I do not know how to determine the lost revenue. Not everyone with Metallica on their iPods would have bought their work but so what? That has nothing to do with the simple fact: they are stealing.

Does a hundred thousand illegal downloads mean Metallica lost the revenue that they would have earned from selling a hundred thousand additional CDs? Probably not.

We need to go after this kind of theft because it is just that, theft. It hurts everyone and perhaps it is time to start forcing corporations to actively search for and remove illegal content if site owners won't. But until the they are forced to do so, they won't because it is or can be bloody expensive.

Bob
 
It's really a tough call. The thing that comes to mind is torrent sites which may be promoting the use of legal torrents getting censored as a result. I have already experienced ISPs that throttle torrent content to try to curb this... and when I get my (legal) software updates by means of torrenting, I get to wait ten hours to get something that I should have in under five minutes.

As to my last paragraph, it is exactly as it reads. Take away the "stolen goods" (music that people pirated) and what happens? I think a whole lot of nothing, other than the fact that people won't be listening to the stolen music. Certainly revenue may increase, but not by the leaps and bounds these companies claim. They are claiming a loss on every pirated song/movie/software/etc. and this just isn't the case. All the while, one cannot return opened movies, games, and CDs and nearly any store if they don't like them. These companies can certainly do a whole lot more to get them customers. As I said. Produce content worth buying and people will buy it. If they took that approach, they wouldn't have to worry so much about piracy?

Am I saying piracy is justified? Absolutely not. What I am saying is that we will sink all this time, effort, and money into this censorship and really gain nothing other than giving large media companies the peace of mind that their content isn't being downloaded illegally. I, for one, could care less about their peace of mind.
 
Am I saying piracy is justified? Absolutely not. What I am saying is that we will sink all this time, effort, and money into this censorship and really gain nothing other than giving large media companies the peace of mind that their content isn't being downloaded illegally. I, for one, could care less about their peace of mind.

For me, that is the problem. I disagree with you when you call it censorship. It ids following the law and enforcing the laws that serve to protect creators.
 
For me, that is the problem. I disagree with you when you call it censorship. It ids following the law and enforcing the laws that serve to protect creators.

You certainly have the right to disagree. I am just stating that I think allowing this censorship will set a dangerous precedent. People are making the China comparison, probably not because they see this censorship as being just as severe, but as equally justified. I am sure China (and other countries that practice heavy censorship) justify their actions as well. People will become complacent with it and it CAN eventually lead to further issues. In short, I see the public potentially being hurt more as a result of this than creators are hurt now. I still stand by the statement that if a creator is creating something worth paying for, they will receive a paycheck.
 
You certainly have the right to disagree. I am just stating that I think allowing this censorship will set a dangerous precedent.

It sets an extremely dangerous precedent.

People are making the China comparison, probably not because they see this censorship as being just as severe, but as equally justified. I am sure China (and other countries that practice heavy censorship)

I'll certainly make the China comparison, because the "PROTECT IP" Act will put in place a website blocking and censoring infrastructure, just like we have in China. So the US Govt. starts with blocking overseas pirate sites, what's next for getting censored? Pro terrorist and Al-Qaeda sites? Sites which promote hatred and death to Obama? Organisations deemed to be illegal by the US Govt.?

Anyway anyone who really wants to look at piracy sites, will find a way around the censoring quite easily, just like I do with the Great Firewall of China.
 
It sets an extremely dangerous precedent.



I'll certainly make the China comparison, because the "PROTECT IP" Act will put in place a website blocking and censoring infrastructure, just like we have in China. So the US Govt. starts with blocking overseas pirate sites, what's next for getting censored? Pro terrorist and Al-Qaeda sites? Sites which promote hatred and death to Obama? Organisations deemed to be illegal by the US Govt.?

Exactly. I don't doubt it is being proposed with only the best intentions in mind. We have seen how some laws and regulations that passed with the best intentions have backfired horribly.
 
In short, I see the public potentially being hurt more as a result of this than creators are hurt now. I still stand by the statement that if a creator is creating something worth paying for, they will receive a paycheck.

And . . . I'll stand by this: if it is illegal, it must go. And, the value -perceived or not- does not matter one bloody bit. Terrible music, insipid poems, ugly graphics, and deplorably written books are still protected by law.

You do not get to decide that because something you think is crap should be made freely available and you should not be required to pay We have laws and they must be followed or why bother to create if it can be stolen?

We are not talking value here, we are talking copyright laws and intellectual property rights.

Bob
 
My point was never to decide what I will and won't pay for (in terms of whether I am willing to buy it or just steal it). I am simply saying that these people need to produce better content and they can quit worrying about this none sense. If they didn't they wouldn't have to worry about piracy and have the government step in in a way that provides future situations with a ridiculously dangerous precedent. THAT I think I do have a say in.

Please, don't go digging into my statements for something that isn't there. Let me put it bluntly. I am not willing to accept that the government should be allowed to censor content just because some company somewhere MIGHT be losing money on it. You say you define censorship differently. That's fine. But I certainly don't.
 
We are not talking value here, we are talking copyright laws and intellectual property rights.

The copyright on the vinyl White Album is different from the copyright on the cassette White Album which is different from the copyright on the CD White Album.

Funny, even though the content is exactly the same, I've paid three times for the identical copyrighted content ...
 
The copyright on the vinyl White Album is different from the copyright on the cassette White Album which is different from the copyright on the CD White Album.

Funny, even though the content is exactly the same, I've paid three times for the identical copyrighted content ...

The copyright rules apply regardless of the format. And yes, you paid three times for the same content, but so what? Not even close to being a valid argument and it simply does not apply.

Bob
 
The copyright on the vinyl White Album is different from the copyright on the cassette White Album which is different from the copyright on the CD White Album.

Funny, even though the content is exactly the same, I've paid three times for the identical copyrighted content ...

The reason this argument isn't valid is because there was nobody forcing you to buy the content every time a new medium was made available. You paid for the content on whatever medium you paid for it on, PERIOD. I understand your pain, and it sucks, but just because it sucks doesn't mean squat in terms of law.

I would propose changing public domain laws, myself. I am not sure what might be a "better" time frame or overall system, but I do agree that being charged for 10, 20, 30+ year old music over and over and over again is a bit ludicrous. Luckily, now that we are in the digital age, it's pretty easy to move these things over to various mediums of your own choosing.
 
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