ari-free
Android Expert
Steve Jobs sure sounded like he was threatened during that press conference. Attacking other phones, coming up with phony videos...yeah that's the sign of a winner (OK well #3 now)
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With Android on the rise, do you think that Apple's iOS is dying?
- Thread starter Storm613
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Steve Jobs sure sounded like he was threatened during that press conference. Attacking other phones, coming up with phony videos...yeah that's the sign of a winner (OK well #3 now)
The same one you tried to link to with your broken link, the one you claimed (wrongly) was broken because the post was deleted, the one that there's a link to in my earlier post.
This one.
I've owned both phones simultaneously and I can say from using all 4 iPhones and 4 Android phones through the last 3 years (I collect phones, so what of it?), there are things that iPhone just simply outclasses Android in and also vice versa. But for someone who doens't want to customize and muck around in trying out ROMS and rooting and all the fun stuff that make us techy people jizz ourselves and they just want a phone that is fast, works out of the box, and does everything you need it to when you need it (the most practical day to day stuff) iPhones just take the cake so they aren't crap and they aren't going away anytime soon.
Example of useful things that people who use an iPhone have right out of the box that is practical and day to day friendly? Simply shooting a video and sending it to someone through MMS. In all previous Android phones I've used (with the exception of the Droid X which has finally fixed this but probably because it had Froyo) when you shot a video and then tried to send you'd get this warning message that the video was too large and then boom you're done... can't send... Then you realize OOOOH I have to set the video record mode to MMS to shoot a video and send it that way. With an iPhone you take a video (even 720P video) and then when you send MMS it gives you an option to trim the video to an acceptable size and then converts the video for you and just send. No can you buy an app to do this for you in the Android Market? Of course you can... but to the normal user they aren't going to be mucking around in the market looking for this. Plus you shouldn't have to as this functionality should be built into any self acclaimed sophisticated OS (just my opinion). So to the average person the android phone just lacks this feature.
Like I said though this has been fixed although I don't know if it's droid X specific or a feature in Froyo as a whole.
Still there are dozens of things Android does 'better' (some subjectively some factually) and things that iPhone does better (some subjectively some factually) so they both have pro's and con's and depending on the time of users they can outweigh each other on either side.
Comments like you're however display a lack of thorough thought and a general lack of knowledge of the competition which would come from using the device for more than 10 minutes in the store. Most of the 'hate' on both the Android fanboy side and the Apple fanboy side come from ignorance and not informed decisions based on using both. I dirges as I'm rambling now but to answer your question, Apple isn't going anywhere because it's a great product that most people can use and a lot of people prefer.
I wonder if IOWA realizes that by calling all Mac users computer illiterate he is calling the the majority of the engineers who make his beloved Android platform computer illiterate?
The majority of the Android engineers use OS X as their platform... Irony is a fun game to play.
The majority of the Android engineers use OS X as their platform... Irony is a fun game to play.
ari-free
Android Expert
Yes it will. It depends heavily on a much higher carrier subsidy than the other Android phones. Once carriers realize that they are paying way too much money for similar or even less specs/features (eg smaller screens, no Flash, etc) and Android's user experience is 'good enough' they will drop iPhone like a lead ball off the Empire State Building.
This doesn't make sense... an N1 without subsidy is around $530... an iPhone is $499 without subsidy... and an iPhone 4 is $599 without subsidy so the carriers aren't paying more for less specs/features... Also the iPhone 4 has the same processor, a better screen, and a better camera than the samsung Galaxy so with that logic the Galaxy wouldn't have been made either...
ari-free
Android Expert
AT&T has to pay a ~$300 subsidy for each iPhone. They don't have to pay that much for android. Apple is much harder to deal with in other ways. For example, carriers don't get to test the phone until the very last minute. There's also no revenue sharing.
Samsung has a better gpu (SGX540) and a 4" s-amoled screen. But this is just the beginning. We're going to see all kinds of dual-core androids soon and with each passing month, iPhone will look less and less attractive.
Samsung has a better gpu (SGX540) and a 4" s-amoled screen. But this is just the beginning. We're going to see all kinds of dual-core androids soon and with each passing month, iPhone will look less and less attractive.
You're making a big assumption that Apple will never change their phone though... each passing month something new comes out yes but Apple updates their phones yearly to match and/or exceed the median specs currently on the market. I just don't get your logic and I"m not trying to be dense but it seems illogical or at the very least presumptuous. Also if an Android phone costs $499 without subsidy and $199 with subsidy and an iPhone as well costs $499 without subsidy and $199 with subsidy and you're saying AT&T eats that cost for the iPhone, who is eating the cost for the Android phone? The money has to go somewhere... If you're saying AT&T pays the $300 subsidy for iPhone then who pays it for the Android phone that also costs $499 without and $199 with subsidy? I'm not being smart ass, I'm really asking for the information because I don't know...
ari-free
Android Expert
The original Droid came out with a 3.7" screen. Now we have 2 phones on the market with a 4.3" screen. Yet the iPhone 4 still has a 3.5" screen and no replaceable battery. It almost seems as if they are incapable of making a phone with those features.
OEM's are probably looking at the latest numbers and getting very excited. They will compete to bring more technology even faster than expected. Things like 1080p video recording, higher resolutions, omap4 or Tegra 2, etc
I said that android phones are cheaper to begin with so they don't need as much subsidy.
The one that I played with in the Verizon store had it... At least that's what the guy said, he said they put Froyo on it... but then again he's just a Verizon store salesman guy so he might not know what he's talking about and I didn't think to look at the About in settings... I should have though.
The iPhone 4 isn't the only current smartphone on the market that has a 3.5 inch screen... some Android phones still have that size and yes there are some exceptions but if you are insinuating that because there are some exceptions now that anything below that, the carriers wont' want to deal with I don't see that happening ANY time soon. Also with that logic that means all phones that don't meet a certain screen size requirements will get the X by carriers not just the iPhone... It seems you're trying to make your logic apply only to the iPhone instead of consistently across all platforms. And it doesn't work that way. Also with your same logic about Android phones being cheaper so the companies won't have to pay the higher subsidy as a reason for the iPhone dying soon then the N1 would have never been made and the N2 will not come out.... You can't make your logic apply to just iPhone JUST because it's made by Apple... That's that basis of pure bias. If you're saying that iPhone will die because the phones are expensive for carriers then ALL phones that cost $499+ whether they be Apple or not would cease to become the norm and would be axed... If you're saying that iPhone would die because it doesn't have a 4.3 inch screen that would mean that ALL phones that didn't meet this carrier requirement would be axed.
So you're logic doesn't denote that iPhone will die but only that $499+ phones will die and 3.5 inch screen phones will die across the board. In which case don't you think Apple would change their phone to meet market norms? You honestly think they would stop making phones if carriers said we now require larger screens?
I jus think your logic is flawed here... I think it's wishful thinking because you just don't like iPhones. But that's just me... doesn't matter. Cheers mate.
If hypothetically down the road Apple released a phone with a 4.3 inch screen, I would only get it if the phone itself remained the same size and it kept its excellent resolution. I really don't want a humongous phone, sorry. Also technically the battery is replaceable in the Iphone 4, it's still not a necessary feature like it is with Droid phones because Iphones tend to have excellent battery life to begin with. On the other hand, my co workers with the HTC EVO or Droid X are lucky if their device doesn't drop from 100% to <50% after only 5 hours of standby time, in the case with those devices with poor battery life I can see how a replacement is a must.
Oh oh let me try:
It almost seems as though droid manufacturers are incapable of making a phone with those features that Iphone has (better battery life, higher resolution screen ect).
Not trying to be an ass, but I honestly don't get the iphone battery thing? every iphone person I know whether they have experience with an android phone or not brings it up, and I'll admit to not living with an iphone day to day, so thats why I'm asking. I have friends with iphones, and I see them plugging them into their computers constantly, I also have a buddy a state over and we send each other goofy crap all the time, sometimes screen shots and I've noticed over and over that by 9-10 am the battery meter on his ip4 is at about the half way point, about where my dinc would be on the oem battery when screwing around all morning.
I honestly don't doubt the battery is a little better, but I guess I'm having a hard time swallowing the wild claims of "all iphones have awesome battery life"
there will be higher res screens before 2011.
Apple are anti-innovation tiny improvements and a refusal to allow users to use their phones the way they want and overly restrictive OS.
Android is driving innovation currently, iOS is the conservative holding back development.
Apple are anti-innovation tiny improvements and a refusal to allow users to use their phones the way they want and overly restrictive OS.
Android is driving innovation currently, iOS is the conservative holding back development.
M
Member203005
Guest
Apple has said there is a problem. They have never said there was no problem. In fact Jobs said "And so the iPhone antenna went through all of this. We tested it. We knew that if you gripped it in a certain way, the bars are going to go down a little bit, just like every smartphone. We didn
Yeah right. Other cell providers wish they could have the iPhone. Carriers make money off data and minutes. A phone that sells like hotcakes and appeals to the consumer crowd that REQUIRES a data plan? Every phone carrier in America wishes it was AT&T right now.
The battery thing is just that Iphones have a longer lasting battery than their droid counterparts.
Here's a fun experiment, take an Iphone 4 and a Droid X (or HTC EVO, doesn't matter) and with a timer, do ONE NONSTOP HOUR OF SOLID 3G BROWSING on both phones. The Iphone 4 will be at 85-90% and the Droid X (or Evo) will be in the mid 60's or possibly in the low 70s. Yes, the EVO is capable of 4G browsing *If you live in a special 4G area* but using 4G on the EVO will only drain the battery twice as fast as 3G.
The shortened battery life on many Droid phones in use also has a lot to do with the fact that they have a larger screen.
They simply have better battery life. My iphone 4 loses 2-3% battery life on standby time per every 10 hours. Whereas I've seen Droid counterparts lose 10, 20, 30, or even 50% of battery life on standby (we're talking overnight, when the phone isn't being used) in 5-10 hours.
M
Member203005
Guest
I think the issue with the Droids losing more battery life is related to a bug in the software relating to GPS (Droid X) or to buggy applications that don't eve let the phone sleep (like the new FAcebook update).
But regardless, I never worried about battery life on my old iPhone but now I feel like I need to manage it on my Droid X.
Rhonen
Well-Known Member
The issue is us waterbags can attenuate the signal by covering (read, NOT touching) the antenna. The design FLAW is in the iphone 4, you touch the antenna. To give you an idea of how bad it is, lets compare it to Apple's last iphone, the 3GS:
Apple's iPhone 4: Thoroughly Reviewed - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News
Anandtech has one of the most thorough reviews on the iphone 4. As you can see, the signal attenuation is 10x as bad as the 3GS. Holding naturally, -1.9 db vs. -19.8 db. Compared to the Nexus 1, it is 2x as bad, -10.7 vs. -19.8. Otherwise, they love the phone. They feel the phone is an improvement over the 3GS. They even say the antenna is an improvement. the flaw is that you touch the antenna. If the improved antenna was NOT touched when you held the phone, then it would be a home run.
This is why Apple is contradicting themselves. All phones have signal attenuation when you hold them. However, not all phones do you touch the antenna when you hold them. Only the iphone 4 does. And that design flaw is reflected in the worst signal attenuation out of any phone tested.
The antenna is great. The design flaw is putting it an area that you end up touching it when you hold the phone. No other phone has this design flaw.
EDIT: Since Rhonen made that post, I can edit mine...lol Thank u for that post.
What ppl are also missing is that, yea the iPhone 4 has better reception than the 3GS by almost 10 decibels. (From what I've read the 3GS can lose reception completely at around -113, the iPhone 4 around -121)
But the antenna issue causes it to lose about -20 decibels....the better reception is canceled out by the antenna bridging issue...especially in a area where u will notice it.
And last time I checked, Android phones had higher screen res before the iPhone 4. Technically the iPhone came first with the better battery life. But when did the X drop, a month later? But higher screen res was on Android way b4 the iPhone 4. And the X battery life is way better than that. There are some variables involved that can drain the battery, even on idle, sleep. That can even happen to the mighty iPhone.
I see some Apple Fans on here showing their true colors....its cool tho. lol
What ppl are also missing is that, yea the iPhone 4 has better reception than the 3GS by almost 10 decibels. (From what I've read the 3GS can lose reception completely at around -113, the iPhone 4 around -121)
But the antenna issue causes it to lose about -20 decibels....the better reception is canceled out by the antenna bridging issue...especially in a area where u will notice it.
If hypothetically down the road Apple released a phone with a 4.3 inch screen, I would only get it if the phone itself remained the same size and it kept its excellent resolution. I really don't want a humongous phone, sorry. Also technically the battery is replaceable in the Iphone 4, it's still not a necessary feature like it is with Droid phones because Iphones tend to have excellent battery life to begin with. On the other hand, my co workers with the HTC EVO or Droid X are lucky if their device doesn't drop from 100% to <50% after only 5 hours of standby time, in the case with those devices with poor battery life I can see how a replacement is a must.Originally Posted by ari-free
Yet the iPhone 4 still has a 3.5" screen and no replaceable battery.
Oh oh let me try:Originally Posted by ari-free
It almost seems as if they are incapable of making a phone with those features.
It almost seems as though droid manufacturers are incapable of making a phone with those features that Iphone has (better battery life, higher resolution screen ect).
And last time I checked, Android phones had higher screen res before the iPhone 4. Technically the iPhone came first with the better battery life. But when did the X drop, a month later? But higher screen res was on Android way b4 the iPhone 4. And the X battery life is way better than that. There are some variables involved that can drain the battery, even on idle, sleep. That can even happen to the mighty iPhone.
I see some Apple Fans on here showing their true colors....its cool tho. lol
I don't know your friends but I can leave my dinc overnight and lose less than 5%, if you don't have everything under the sun updating every 15 minutes its ok. Now I have installed crap apps that killed the battery and I think i've conceded that point to iphone already, you don't have to worry about something like that.
The browsing I may have to watch my battery one day and surf for an hour and see what it is I actually lose, I don't have an ip4 handy, browsing does kill the dinc fairly quickly though.
Just wondering though because you did say "all" iphones, isnt the 4 supposed to be much better than the previous models?
Like I said just not what I "see" I'm not trying to start a "mine is better"
The browsing I may have to watch my battery one day and surf for an hour and see what it is I actually lose, I don't have an ip4 handy, browsing does kill the dinc fairly quickly though.
Just wondering though because you did say "all" iphones, isnt the 4 supposed to be much better than the previous models?
Like I said just not what I "see" I'm not trying to start a "mine is better"
Rhonen
Well-Known Member
The iphone 4 does indeed have the best battery - except talk time. The Droid X, even the first Droid, beats the iphone 4:
Motorola Droid X: Thoroughly Reviewed - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News
No, they said nothing. When the problem was first made public, Apple's official position was "we have no official position." It wasn't until it was shown repeatedly to be a design defect that they even acknowledged there was something amiss. Even then they dismissed it until the media held their feet to the fire.
Not the same issue ... and it took outside sources to tell them what the problem was.
Damage control, pure and simple.
Wrong wrong WRONG. It must be repeated because Apple is trying to convince people otherwise. The issue "all cell phone manufacturers" have is one of signal attenuation due to obstacles between the antenna and the signal source. This has always been part of antenna design since the first days of radio ... after all, a smartphone is nothing more than a radio attached to a little computer. The iPhone 4's problem is that the exposed slot (aka. dipole) antenna is shorted out by galvanic skin conductivity. This is in addition to signal attenuation due to obstacles. The reason the bumper works is because it effectively insulates the poles, preventing the hand from bridging them. It does nothing for signal attenuation. The reason why it is not common to other cell phone manufacturers is that they do not use dipole antennas and they do not expose the elements to shorting.
Now the argument is made that there are many people who don't experience any signal problems which is understandable. If the area where they use their phone has consistently strong signals, then even a shorted antenna will continue to receive. It is also possible that that person's particular skin chemistry is not particularly conductive. Cool dry skin is much less like to conduct small voltages. Any kid who has played around with an ohmmeter could tell you that. If you continue to doubt, please read the results of the MIT study referenced earlier in this thread and understand that the decibel scale is logarithmic, not linear. (if you don't know what that means, then you have even more homework.)
Please read, research and study the above statement and then go ask Apple why they continue to deflect obfuscate and backpedal.
The change in antenna design which even you admit effects all iPhone 4's was done specifically to address the iPhone's single most troubling complaint ... that of dropped calls. Apple's own study claims that the new phone drops only one fewer call per 100 than the previous models. Statistically speaking, that means that IF people with good signal strength are seeing improved reception with the iPhone 4, then people with marginal signal strength must necessarily see worse reception and more frequent dropped calls.
Class dismissed (there may be a quiz tomorrow)