Update: 2.1 OS upgrade for Rogers HTC Magic+

[vikingisson]

I know, I pretty much just wanted to blow off some steam and let RogersMary know how unsatisfied and negative an image we have of Rogers. I try and steer everybody I know away from them.

As soon as CM6 comes out of RC i'm on it a fat kid on a Cupcake, I mean Frozen Yoghurt .

Ok, fair enough but your example case is weak. A non contract phone shouldn't be expected to get updates from a provider especially one that you don't pay. Yeah, Fido is really Rogers and the regular users are also waiting so fair enough. For now, and when it finally comes you might still not get it.

If you aren't happy with old 1.5 then why not already running 2.1 that has long been stable?

 

[MagicAndroid]

Ok, fair enough but your example case is weak. A non contract phone shouldn't be expected to get updates from a provider especially one that you don't pay. Yeah, Fido is really Rogers and the regular users are also waiting so fair enough. For now, and when it finally comes you might still not get it.

If you aren't happy with old 1.5 then why not already running 2.1 that has long been stable?

For the counter argument why I should get updates:

If Rogers wants to lock the phone with their custom ROM they better update all phones regardless of being a full time customer or not. While I don't provide them a monthly donation they still made money off of my purchase of the phone at 600$. Had it been an open phone and they didn't get 1 cent in the whole process then it would be up to HTC only.

The reason I haven't rooted yet was Rogers always lying / pushing it further. All they needed to tell me was "I don't know" but every time i talked with a rep I think at this point they used to give me made up answers.

So it went from early year (911 fix, no 2.1, not even 1.6) to spring, to summer and now we had late august but with 4 days left it'll be a miracle if it does come out. I always held off rooting for the actual update which never came. That's why since 2.2 my thinking has been CM6 or Rogers 2.1 but at this point I don't care much any more because I plan on getting a new Android 3.0 device when they come out, supposedly around the holidays. Anything 2.X will be good enough for my gf since she doesn't need bleeding edge tech and it would be a massive jump from her dumb phone.

So basically out of this experience I've learned to buy a Google device (waiting for the next nexus type phone) nothing that has to do with a carrier, that carriers are full of shit, they lock you into a 3-year contract (which is unheard of elsewhere around the world) and then give you minimal service to keep you tolerant not happy. I didn't even do that and still got screwed, but not nearly as badly.

Finally I'm left with a hate of Rogers and I think I'd go with something as ridiculous as the Loblaws cell phone plan before I went with Rogers.

Now you might say yeah but you're with Fido which is Rogers. Fido while part of the bigger corperation is not Rogers. Better service, better plans and never had any BS with them. Like I say, they'd be the best wireless provider IMO if they had better phones.

 

[mpg187]

I don't think Android phones should be excluded just because they run a different OS.

And if you only tether sometimes or be careful you can stay withing a 512 MB limit...

The 1GB Plan is only $5 more? If it's that cheap I should get it!!!

 

[mpg187]

The same way they know if your using lots of peer-to-peer file sharing, packet sniffing/analyzing, Packet analyzer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That or they could just look at the URL's you pull (mobile sites vs full sites).

Just because it's a mobile URL or not doesn't mean much, you can open mobile URLs on a PC or normal URLs on a smartphone...

One way they could know is by your user agent if you don't switch it or by running a program that's only on PC/Mac/Desktop Linux (For example a game). Like if Rogers is aware of what traffic from WoW looks like then you can't say oh that data usage was on my phone when WoW isn't available for Android (PS I don't play WoW but was using it as an example because I am sure everyone hear has atleast heard of it...)

 

[vikingisson]

@MagicAndroid, I still don't buy your argument. How are they going to know that your unlocked non contract phone *could* get an update? By calling them and asking? You'd have to ask Fido if that is what you use. If I was Rogers I wouldn't make a special case for you, not because I'm a dick but because my special rom is for Rogers, it is locked to Rogers, it has Rogers branding, and I'm going to give it to anyone that asks? Oh wait, Fido is technically the same thing, I get that but you know going in that they act like it isn't the same.

I *am* on Rogers but I don't expect nor do I want their 2.1 update. I want them to update everyone that wants it but I don't expect them to do mine since I'm using an unlocked phone.

Agreed on most of the bitching points but not on the one about you getting an OTA update. If they offer an RUU then have at it, enjoy. But it makes no damn sense, you'll jump on 2.2 if it goes stable at cyanogenmod but won't do 2.1? You'll get a 3.0 asap? I'm calling ...... on that.

@mpg187, they can smell your tether if they want to I suppose but again it is irrelevant, if you have 1Gig then you can tether. They spell that out pretty clear and for $5 you get enough to be useful. Way better deal than *any* textting plans that people gladly pay for (not me). 500MB isn't enough to be practical for any real tethering, not worth the hassle at Rogers to deal with all the overage complaints.

But I'm no R fanboy and have online bitched plenty. I just don't buy these particular arguments. Some things in life you have to do yourself if telco won't do them for you.

 

[MagicAndroid]

@MagicAndroid, I still don't buy your argument. How are they going to know that your unlocked non contract phone *could* get an update? By calling them and asking? You'd have to ask Fido if that is what you use. If I was Rogers I wouldn't make a special case for you, not because I'm a dick but because my special rom is for Rogers, it is locked to Rogers, it has Rogers branding, and I'm going to give it to anyone that asks? Oh wait, Fido is technically the same thing, I get that but you know going in that they act like it isn't the same.

I *am* on Rogers but I don't expect nor do I want their 2.1 update. I want them to update everyone that wants it but I don't expect them to do mine since I'm using an unlocked phone.

Agreed on most of the bitching points but not on the one about you getting an OTA update. If they offer an RUU then have at it, enjoy. But it makes no damn sense, you'll jump on 2.2 if it goes stable at cyanogenmod but won't do 2.1? You'll get a 3.0 asap? I'm calling ...... on that.

First off it's not sim locked to Rogers, it works on Fido and I unlocked it to work on all networks but it's still locked in the ROM sense because I can't get updates from HTC directly. A truly unlocked magic doesn't have a rogers boot screen nor their logo on the phone. You might have that I don't.

So they don't need to make an exception for me, what about all the other 1000's of normal Magic users on their networks. I'll meet them half way to update (i.e. do what need to be done if OTA doesn't work) but they don't do shit on their end and that's my complaint.

Also what's there not to get about my update situation. I'll break it down so you can understand.

-I've been waiting since last year because Rogers kept telling me, a bit longer, a bit longer. I'm still waiting.

- Now I've considered rooting because I'm getting tired of waitingfor Rogers but since 2.2 came out I decided to hold off. I don't want to root to 2.1 and then in a month redo it to 2.2. So I wait.

- Regardless of which comes first (the two above) as soon as the next nexus devices comes out i'm going to buy it. Why because Google updates that directly and it doesn't matter what network you're on and what manufacturer actually makes it. I will no longer be at the whim of Rogers or anybody else. I'll actually get proper support for a device I paid for. Now 3.0 is slated for Q4 2010. I could only imagine that Google might ask for a higher spec'd device for development.



Last point and I'll explain it thru example why Rogers AND HTC need to update it.

You buy a computer from HP and you pay X$. You go home and connect to the internet and pay Y$ a month to Bell.

Who give you upgrades on the computer? HP right? regardless of which internet provider you're with. HP might not manufacture the computer itself maybe Foxxconn does it but it's branded under their name. You payed those X$ and part of that money includes funds for updates. That Y$ has nothing to do with it.

So is it totally radical to expect that when I buy a phone from Rogers (manufactured by HTC) that they provide me with updates regardless that I'm with their monthly services or not. You pay them monthly not to support the phone but to use their services and for them to maintain their networks in working condition.

 

[vikingisson]

jeez, you're making less sense each time. Now you should be blaming HTC, just like your HP computer. K, go for it but we already know they won't. That's the deal. Screwed up for sure but that isn't going to change.

Root the goddamn phone and be done with it. Remove the rogers logo too if you want. Or be happy with that doggy 1.5. The choices are few but a solution is possible. me: buy phone, hear that Rogers is going to play dead on updates, root phone, update to 1.6, update to 2.1, update to 2.2. But I'm not as lazy for these things if they are important.

but I don't care that much and don't need it explained to me, I'm done with this one.

 

[MagicAndroid]

jeez, you're making less sense each time. Now you should be blaming HTC, just like your HP computer. K, go for it but we already know they won't. That's the deal. Screwed up for sure but that isn't going to change.

Root the goddamn phone and be done with it. Remove the rogers logo too if you want. Or be happy with that doggy 1.5. The choices are few but a solution is possible. me: buy phone, hear that Rogers is going to play dead on updates, root phone, update to 1.6, update to 2.1, update to 2.2. But I'm not as lazy for these things if they are important.

but I don't care that much and don't need it explained to me, I'm done with this one.

Sometime I wonder if you read what I write. It's a Rogers' phone manufactured by HTC. Just like the Nexus One is manufactured by HTC but it's Google's phone. Google has the ability to take care of it and update it so they don't use HTC. Rogers like Google, has the responsibility to take care of their phone but they contract it back to HTC because they don't have the ability to do it. That's what my example pointed out.

See for me half of it is principle. I paid money, I expect the service. If I absolutely needed the update it would have been done long ago but I don't it's a luxury, the phone still works although not optimally. I'm no longer in a rush to get an update because i'll be getting a new phone however that doesn't stop me from being pissed off Rogers for not having provided something they should have a long time ago.

Unfortunately I bought it in May 2009, in the infancy of Android. I love every aspect of Android but had I known what I know now I would have got a Nexus and never bothered with the Rogers Magic.

Edit:
Here's from the HTC site, please read the first 2 posts.
http://community.htc.com/na/htc-forums/android/f/25/t/305.aspx
and the 4th post of the second.
http://community.htc.com/na/htc-forums/android/f/69/t/1502.aspx?PageIndex=1
The second link links back to this thread.

 

[vikingisson]

You can argue semantics and what you think is right forever. Meanwhile I'm running Froyo. That's why I have an unlocked phone. Problem solved.

 

[drifter136]

I'm with vikingisson on this one. IMO when buying a phone, you've got a choice, get the phone cheap but lock into a contract, or pay alot for the phone and go where you want. There's a reason the phone drops from $600 to ~$50 when you get a contract. Carriers make a LOT more money off you on that contract than they do selling you the phone outright.

As an example, you're not buying a FutureShop TV or a BestBuy TV, you're still buying a Sony/LG/whatever TV. Pay extra for that extended warranty...well now Futureshop or BesBuy is going to look after you. But otherwise, you're on the phone to Sony/LG/whatever to work it out. Those stores might have a 90 day policy to bring it back for another one if you have problems, but in terms of other perks beyond that return/exchange policy, you're on your own.

TV's might be a poor example...perhaps laptops would have been a better comparison, but I digress. By your logic, MagicAndroid, if you pick up your Rogers HTC Magic (or Telus Moto Milestone, or Bell Galaxy S) at Walmart (which you can do), does the responsibility for a software update now shift from Rogers to Walmart? Are you now on Walmart's ass to get you 2.1/2.2/etc? You bought an HTC phone, your beef is with HTC. Doesn't really matter where you got it, you're not paying for the perks (or lack thereof, as many see it).

 

[wjsturgis3]

I know, I pretty much just wanted to blow off some steam and let RogersMary know how unsatisfied and negative an image we have of Rogers. I try and steer everybody I know away from them.

As soon as CM6 comes out of RC i'm on it a fat kid on a Cupcake, I mean Frozen Yoghurt .

CM6 stable came out last evening.

 

[MagicAndroid]

CM6 stable came out last evening.

Sweet, thanks for the update. I checked earlier in the evening but it came out sometime past Midnight since the time stamp is Aug 28th. I guess I know what I'm doing today.

I'm with vikingisson on this one. IMO when buying a phone, you've got a choice, get the phone cheap but lock into a contract, or pay alot for the phone and go where you want. There's a reason the phone drops from $600 to ~$50 when you get a contract. Carriers make a LOT more money off you on that contract than they do selling you the phone outright.

As an example, you're not buying a FutureShop TV or a BestBuy TV, you're still buying a Sony/LG/whatever TV. Pay extra for that extended warranty...well now Futureshop or BesBuy is going to look after you. But otherwise, you're on the phone to Sony/LG/whatever to work it out. Those stores might have a 90 day policy to bring it back for another one if you have problems, but in terms of other perks beyond that return/exchange policy, you're on your own.

TV's might be a poor example...perhaps laptops would have been a better comparison, but I digress. By your logic, MagicAndroid, if you pick up your Rogers HTC Magic (or Telus Moto Milestone, or Bell Galaxy S) at Walmart (which you can do), does the responsibility for a software update now shift from Rogers to Walmart? Are you now on Walmart's ass to get you 2.1/2.2/etc? You bought an HTC phone, your beef is with HTC. Doesn't really matter where you got it, you're not paying for the perks (or lack thereof, as many see it).

To this I reply that BB, FS, walmart and others are just vendors of the phone and don't become liable for it's maintenance. Rogers allows them to sell the phone and make a bit of profit on it so that Rogers has a greater sales coverage. The vendor offers you a 30 day or something plan because you gave them money and they want you to come back and buy from them so they give you a limited time warranty for customer satisfaction.

Now with extended service plan from BB and FS, you pay a lot more and with that they assume responsibility for it working not for it being upgraded.

Again the way I see it is:

HTC makes a phone. If they don't brand it it's their phone.
HTC makes a phone for Rogers. It's Rogers' phone made by HTC.
And regardless of the vendor it is still a Rogers device because the vendor is only a means to diffuse the product.

Anyways I just want to point out my view on the matter. If you agree with it or not is up to you. All I know is today I root my phone and give Rogers the big finger never again wanting to deal with them.

 

[drifter136]

And regardless of the vendor it is still a Rogers device because the vendor is only a means to diffuse the product.

Um, Rogers IS the vendor. They're selling a product made by a manufacturer. How are you not seeing this? Rogers just has a deal with HTC to print their name on the cover and provide them with technical help. But at the end of the day, Rogers is the vendor. It's not Walmart's fault my Sony TV crapped out. With all phones, Rogers is the vendor. If my phone doesn't work, yes, I contact Rogers first. But if I took my phone over to another carrier, like say, Fido, I'd have the common sense to know that I'm giving up perks that being on the Rogers network allows, which in this case is an OTA 2.1 upgrade. Though I'm sure you can take the option of going to a Rogers store and having them apply the update in person.

All this nonsense that MagicAndroid is talking does raise a valid point though...why can't HTC just offer an unbranded 1.6/2.1/2.2 upgrade on its own website? I've got my own theory...might be completely wrong, but I've got a theory.

This might be where the iron fist of Rogers really lies...not allowing HTC to provide a baseline HTC Android/Sense for all the Magic phones the world over. But if it was Rogers stopping HTC from doing this...why wouldn't they just end the headaches with all the complainers and let it happen? Probably because it wouldn't. It's HTC that doesn't care about our phones anymore. Rogers has spent the money getting HTC to develop it's 2.1 upgrade, and doesn't want to dump a bunch more money into a 2.2 update when they were already so far into the 2.1 update, so the decisions been made, 2.1 is good enough. And that's where they're leaving it.

I recently spoke to a friend who works in the tech industry....he actually was working for MTS (Manitoba Telecom Systems, provides home phone, wireless, internet, digital TV). He was in their software department. They had something like an 80-percent project cancellation rate. Meaning, they'd start on a project, they'd get halfway through it, something better or something else entirely comes along, the whole project is scrapped. And apparently this is fairly commonplace in this industry.

The Magic is a relatively low-volume phone...I've never run across another person using it locally, and rarely see another android phone on the street. Rogers quite possibly weighed the costs/benefits/longevity of scrapping the 2.1 upgrade to move to 2.2, against the backlash over an even LONGER wait for the update from us, the vocal few. Then they see 3.0 on the horizon which who knows if the phone will run it without major modification to the OS, and they decide 2.1 will roll, that will be the end, and by the time 3.0 lands, us vocal few will have let it go and moved onto a more powerful phone because lets face it, we're basically just clinging to a 486 in a Pentium world here.

 

[Truffle]

Good to know that CM6 stable is now out. I wonder though, how stable is it? I would be interested in any feedback.

Regarding who is at fault for the current situation, to me it is clearly Rogers since they are the customer (to HTC). They decide that 2.1 is the last version we will get. They tell HTC to root lock the device to prevent us from further upgrading it ourselves.

 

[sconnelly]

My beef lies not with the software update being unreasonably slow (though that's an issue that should be addressed at lenght in some other forum) but how Rogers has handled the issue. While they bend over backwards to give iPhone owners everything they ask on a gold plate they are brazen in their refusal to even provide accurate status updates on the progress of a simple firmware upgrade for Android phones. This is not a new issue - they were just as bad last year when everyone and their dog got the 1.6 upgrade except for Rogers customers because Rogers didn't feel like it was necessary. And it's worsened by Rogers Customer Service Representatives that know nothing about the products and act as if the customers are being stupid and annoying for asking questions.

This whole mess was caused by a misguided idea that providing information to information hungry customers is a bad idea.

To your point about the device being outdated, that's flat out misinformed. All Android devices are designed to spec to be updatable within limits. Both the 1.6 upgrade (which never came), the 2.1 upgrade (which is now coming) and the 2.2 upgrade (which will never come though there is no good reason for it) work perfectly fine on the device. The reason they are not being rolled out sooner is rooted in HTCs reluctance to support older devices and Rogers' refusal to stand up for their customers.

Overall it's a shameful state of affairs and we, as paying customers, should not be making excuses for them.

FYI, the difference is in the OS update distribution models employed by Apple and Google.

Apple = Controls all aspects of their OS. The carrier must agree that they cannot block or otherwise hinder Apple iPhone OS updates. Thus, all Apple iPhone OS updates are available immediately to all customers (if hardware allows).

Google = Releases OS updates on a rapid but random basis. Since there is absolutely no homogeneity in hardware, Google releases OS to hardware manufacturer, the hardware manufacturer (say HTC for the purpose of this discussion), they decide if hardware is end of life, or not. If not, they invest time to ensure hardware compatibility (drivers, etc.), HTC announces to carriers that update is available. Carriers (Rogers) decide if it is worth paying HTC for branding, etc.

As I stated in the past, the problem lies primarily with Google's complicated open OS model that allows hardware manufacturers free reign over hardware and OS customizations. As a result, OS fragmentation is now out of control and even OS 2.0 is different from one phone to the next. This problem also created vastly different user experiences from one phone to the next. ....and I have only touched upon the problems with Google's Android!

 

[sconnelly]

Sometime I wonder if you read what I write. It's a Rogers' phone manufactured by HTC. Just like the Nexus One is manufactured by HTC but it's Google's phone. Google has the ability to take care of it and update it so they don't use HTC. Rogers like Google, has the responsibility to take care of their phone but they contract it back to HTC because they don't have the ability to do it. That's what my example pointed out.

See for me half of it is principle. I paid money, I expect the service. If I absolutely needed the update it would have been done long ago but I don't it's a luxury, the phone still works although not optimally. I'm no longer in a rush to get an update because i'll be getting a new phone however that doesn't stop me from being pissed off Rogers for not having provided something they should have a long time ago.

Unfortunately I bought it in May 2009, in the infancy of Android. I love every aspect of Android but had I known what I know now I would have got a Nexus and never bothered with the Rogers Magic.

Edit:
Here's from the HTC site, please read the first 2 posts.
Android 2.0 upgrade - Android 2.0 Upgrade - Android Forums - HTC Community
and the 4th post of the second.
HTC Magic (Rogers) Upgrade to 2.1 - HTC Magic (Rogers) - Android Forums - HTC Community
The second link links back to this thread.

You keep threatening to leave Rogers. Who are you going to switch to?

Better yet, please tell me which carrier is keeping their Android phone immediately up to date? It doesn't count if it is a brand new release! The truth is, it makes no difference which carrier you choose. It is nearly all the same for any Android carrier.

Save yourself some OS update stress, buy an iPhone. Because, with ANY carrier, you will never again worry about not being updated.

 

[vikingisson]

Save yourself some OS update stress, buy an iPhone. Because, with ANY carrier, you will never again worry about not being updated.

Or what I do, buy an Adnroid phone that I can update with ASOP. I'm perfectly happy with the less slick and polished OS, it does what I want and flexible enough to be as slick as I need. Google gives me the raw code and I control how it acts. A very different model for sure but for those that want to control their own device and take the time to learn it it makes a lot of sense and not as confusing as the media thinks it is.

I'm not at all dependent on the provider for anything other than access, they are the ISP and nothing more. They profit and have little to no tech support headaches from me.

 

[sconnelly]

Or what I do, buy an Adnroid phone that I can update with ASOP. I'm perfectly happy with the less slick and polished OS, it does what I want and flexible enough to be as slick as I need. Google gives me the raw code and I control how it acts. A very different model for sure but for those that want to control their own device and take the time to learn it it makes a lot of sense and not as confusing as the media thinks it is.

I'm not at all dependent on the provider for anything other than access, they are the ISP and nothing more. They profit and have little to no tech support headaches from me.

Sure, this is a great option but only for the technically skilled. I suspect for a larger majority of owners, this is not an option. I fall into a different category, I am technically skilled, but I can't be bothered to read through all the documents and caveats to find the right version, for the correct radio, etc.

Besides, rooting was not possible with Sense UI, until recently.

Is there any truth to the rumour that if one rooted and updated their phone to any other Android OS, Rogers will degrade their data service?

But the point of my message is that I am tired of some blaming Rogers entirely for this mess. It is unfair and illogical, considering it is really a mess started with Google. All one has to do is look at the iPhone! It seems to me that Rogers iPhone owners have ZERO complaints about OS updates. And to suggest that Rogers favours iPhone is just childish nonsense.

 

[thor124]

Sure, this is a great option but only for the technically skilled. I suspect for a larger majority of owners, this is not an option. I might fall into a different category, I am technically skilled, but I can be bothered to read through all the documents and caveats to find the right version, for the correct radio, etc.

Besides, rooting was not possible with Sense UI, until recently.

Understandable.

Is there any truth to the rumour that if one rooted and updated their phone to any other Android OS, Rogers will degrade their data service?

I had no such problems, but I made sure I was either on the post-E911 Magic radio(stock post-E911 magic RRU) or the post-E911 Dream radio(While rooted, first with CM5.0.7 and now 6.0.0-stable). If you have a Dream or Magic, and its not running either of those radios, your data connection is likely to be cut.

But the point of my message is that I am tired of some blaming Rogers entirely for this mess. It is unfair and illogical, considering it is really a mess started with Google. All one has to do is look at the iPhone! It seems to me that Rogers iPhone owners have ZERO complaints about OS updates. And to suggest that Rogers favours iPhone is just childish nonsense.

I'm sure some here are willing to argue this point until blue in the face. From my perspective this mess is 60% Rogers, 20% HTC, 20% google. Seeing as rogers is highest on my list, and apparently listening the most(Hi Mary and crew!), I'll aim my anger at them.

 

[sconnelly]

I'm sure some here are willing to argue this point until blue in the face. From my perspective this mess is 60% Rogers, 20% HTC, 20% google. Seeing as rogers is highest on my list, and apparently listening the most(Hi Mary and crew!), I'll aim my anger at them.

And.... so how do you explain how iPhone owners not having a problem? It is every bit as complex (in terms of OS update requirements) as an Android. Again, Apple controls the OS updates NOT the service provider nor the hardware manufacturer.

In fact, Google could solve this problem immediately by dictating that all manufacturers, as of OS 3.0, must agree to design their phones to Google specifications and agree to allow their phones to always accept OTA updates from Google, within a maximum amount of time. And that carriers have little part in this process! There problem solved! Okay, I am willing to admit that it won't be that easy!

Anyhow, sadly you can believe whatever you wish but it doesn't change the fact that many of us are still on Android OS 1.5 and it is nearly September 2010.

I only 'blame' Rogers for their part in promising an update by mid-2010. Not to say I told you so... but I did state in March that Rogers actually knew that it wasn't going to happen that quickly (or at all). Please understand, I am not claiming that people like RogersMary are lying (they are not!). There is a disconnect between executives, tech services, and marketing. Unfortunately, marketing (RogersMary) is on the front line and they only know what they are told.

 

[KyleB]

Sure, this is a great option but only for the technically skilled. I suspect for a larger majority of owners, this is not an option. I might fall into a different category, I am technically skilled, but I can be bothered to read through all the documents and caveats to find the right version, for the correct radio, etc.

Besides, rooting was not possible with Sense UI, until recently.

Thanks for pointing this out, I'm in exactly the same boat to. Plus, as I've never rooted before, I'm nervous I'll screw something up and be left with a bricked device and being stuck with a large bill for a replacement phone (something I can't afford at the moment).

I've thought about tinkering with my old dream phone for practise, but really haven't had the time to read through all the requirements fully enough. When I have glanced at the requirements, I find that sometimes steps are missing that may seem obvious to some users, but if you haven't rooted before, it's not obvious.

 

[thor124]

And.... so how do you explain how iPhone owners not having a problem? It is every bit as complex (in terms of OS update requirements) as an Android. Again, Apple controls the OS updates NOT the service provider nor the hardware manufacturer.

I explain them not having a problem because they get the updates in a reasonable time.

In fact, Google could solve this problem immediately by dictating that all manufacturers, as of OS 3.0, must agree to design their phones to Google specifications and agree to allow their phones to always accept OTA updates from Google, within a maximum amount of time. And that carriers have little part in this process! There problem solved! Okay, I am willing to admit that it won't be that easy!

Just like apple?

Anyhow, sadly you can believe whatever you wish but it doesn't change the fact that many of us are still on Android OS 1.5 and it is nearly September 2010.

Thank Rogers for that:

1) They did not "request" the update before the big stink that was kicked up around xmas. If they had "requested" that these phones be kept current from the start, I'm sure we'd be running something a little newer by now.
2)Also thank Rogers for demanding the customizations which force HTC to tailor make a update for these phones. And forces Google to evaluate yet-another-rom-for-an-obsolete-phone, which I'm sure is high on their list of priorities.
​

I only 'blame' Rogers for their part in promising an update by mid-2010. Not to say I told you so... but I did state in March that Rogers actually knew that it wasn't going to happen that quickly (or at all). Please understand, I am not claiming that people like RogersMary are lying (they are not!). There is a disconnect between executives, tech services, and marketing. Unfortunately, marketing (RogersMary) is on the front line and they only know what they are told.

I think everyone was skeptical of the 'mid-year' claim from the get-go, and that skepticism has been proven justified. I'm guessing another month before they get "google approval" (if it ever comes...), then a month on top of that to "get ready for the first OTA update".

I agree that there is a very large disconnect between RogersMary's group and the decision makers at Rogers. No offense to Mary, but her and her group are nothing but glorified messengers. I'm sure that any feedback we give them is noted, then ignored by the executives who make the decisions.

 

[mjschmidt]

Just FYI, RogersMary sent me a DM on Twitter today telling me she would have some "info" to announce some time in the next two days (I assume she meant including today).

I asked her for clarification, but she said she couldn't.

We DO know the following to be true unless Mary is lying, or has been lied to:

1. It is true that Rogers received the update from HTC.
2. It is true that Rogers discovered a bug and sent it back to HTC.
3. It is true that Rogers received the updated revised from HTC and approved it internally at Rogers last week.
4. It is true that Rogers sent the approved update to Google for approval last week.
5. It is true that, according to Mary, after Google approves it, it goes back to HTC and it is up to HTC to announce and handle to OTA roll-out.

So we can assume that the "info" she has to announce is one of the following:

1. Google has approved it, but we don't know when it's coming.
2. Google has approved it, and OTA update will start on xx/xx/xxxx.
3. Google has not approved it, now we have to do y.

I'll let you know if/when I hear more.

 

[MagicAndroid]

Well popped back in to see whats happening.


Just thought I'd point out that if HTC doesn't roll it out tonight or tomorrow Rogers will have lied to us, AGAIN, about having it out by the end of August. I think this makes Android 2.1 lie/bad statement # 4 or 5.

If Rogers learns anything from this experience is that from day 1 they should apply for an update and two they should not make statements unless they're 99% sure they can upkeep them.

 

[drifter136]

Just thought I'd point out that if HTC doesn't roll it out tonight or tomorrow Rogers will have lied to us, AGAIN, about having it out by the end of August. I think this makes Android 2.1 lie/bad statement # 4 or 5.

I'm not seeing how Rogers lied. Have you never followed the electronics/software/computer/gaming industry? Company announces release date X, which assumes everything goes perfectly, when they're starting a project. Company realizes there's a problem and pushes back release date. Another problem pops up, it gets pushed back again...and so on.

Rogers gave us a "mid-2010" release date, which everybody assumed was the exact middle of 2010, last day of June or first day of July...in my mind, "mid-2010" means anywhere from Late May to early August. They told us at the end of May or early June (can't remember) that they were still waiting for the update so they could test it, and more information would be forthcoming. They told us at the end of June/early July (can't remember) that they had the update and were in testing, targeting a late-August release. They told us in mid-August (before the end of august release window) that there was a problem, it went back, was rectified, and they had it back, and they'd have more info for us soon. Perhaps they should have explicitly said, "there's going to be another delay". But having the most-basic understanding of the software industry, I know how this works.

Ask the GT5 guys how this works. They're experts at disappointment. They've been waiting what, 2 years since the original release date? It's the nature of the industry. Somebody in school that only understands "book report due on Friday, late means I get an F" would think the entire world works this way. Wake up call: It doesn't.