Darwin got it wrong!

[Bob Maxey]

They don't walk in one day and say "Hmmm... today I think they don't deserve to vote any longer".

They take away your right to choose. One by one they begin to make your choices for you. They know what's right for you. You can't be trusted to make the decision on your own.

For instance, seat belts. Aside from Children (who cannot make the decision for themselves), the government has no business telling you how safe you have to be. If you choose to be unsafe, then that is your RIGHT.

Slowly but surely, the government begins to control more and more of your life. Eventually they will tell you what is healthy enough for you to be allowed to eat it.

Are you saying there is no place in society for some measure of control over our lives? You mentioned seat belts. I am not sure if I agree with them. My 1960 Olds Super 88 does not have them and the local authorities can't tell me to install them. So we win that battle against that law.

Leave it up to the common man to decide what is safe, is bad, bad, bad. Look at all of those people that think they can drive while drunk. Their lack of common sense costs lives.

Suppose I decided that driving past your house at 80 MPH was safe and I decided that the government had no right telling me I can't drive fast. Then I hit your daughter who is playing in the street. What happens to me? Do I go to jail and, it well, it sucks to be your family, but the government had no right telling me how to drive.

Bad analogy, but I have not had my coffee today.

Point being, we need control or we have no society.

Bob Maxey

 

[byteware]

I'm sorry Byteware, now I 100% believe you hate governments.

Then you are 100% mistaken.

I don't hate rattlesnakes, but that doesn't mean I am not aware of the dangers.

Being aware of the dangers that governments pose, simply by the power vested in them, is not hating them.

Are you saying there is no place in society for some measure of control over our lives?

Government should concern itself with where we interfere with the rights of others (right to own property by stealing, Right to life by murder, etc...)

Government should protect us from each other (drunk driving, speeding, reckless driving).

Government should NOT protect us from ourselves.

Point being, we need control or we have no society.

That control should end with our interactions with each other.

If I want to slit my wrists, why is the government interfering.

If I want to eat unhealthy transfats, why is the government interfering?

The government SHOULD protect us from each other.

The government SHOULD NOT protect us from ourselves.

Cigarettes are bad, the government is making moves to make sure we stop smoking.

Sodas are bad, the government is making moves to make sure we stop drinking sodas.

Transfats are bad, local governments are making moves to make sure we stop ingesting them.

If we continue down this road, in a couple of decades we are going to see more and more restrictions placed upon us based on what is BAD for us.

 

[ElasticNinja]

Then you are 100% mistaken.

I don't hate rattlesnakes, but that doesn't mean I am not aware of the dangers.

Being aware of the dangers that governments pose, simply by the power vested in them, is not hating them.



Government should concern itself with where we interfere with the rights of others (right to own property by stealing, Right to life by murder, etc...)

Government should protect us from each other (drunk driving, speeding, reckless driving).

Government should NOT protect us from ourselves.



That control should end with our interactions with each other.

If I want to slit my wrists, why is the government interfering.

If I want to eat unhealthy transfats, why is the government interfering?

The government SHOULD protect us from each other.

The government SHOULD NOT protect us from ourselves.

Cigarettes are bad, the government is making moves to make sure we stop smoking.

Sodas are bad, the government is making moves to make sure we stop drinking sodas.

Transfats are bad, local governments are making moves to make sure we stop ingesting them.

I could go down the road of saying how good the "smoking ban" has been for Ireland but I wont.

Byteware I am afraid my intitial point of you hating government(s) has been reinforced by your point.
I guess you are the ultimate free-er
Free market, free of taxes, free of government interference.

I suggest you find some small island and start your system, while the world watches in hysterics (till they see everyone dying) on TV like in that movie (dont ask)

 

[byteware]

I could go down the road of saying how good the "smoking ban" has been for Ireland but I wont.

I'm not sure you could.

Byteware I am afraid my intitial point of you hating government(s) has been reinforced by your point.

It doesn't appear that you can grasp the difference between mistrust and hate.

That's fine, but understand it's your misunderstanding of both of those words that brings you to that conclusion,not any actual hate on my part.

I guess you are the ultimate free-er
Free market, free of taxes, free of government interference.

markets free of unnecessary regulation.

Free of unnecessary taxes.

Free of unnecessary government interference. You are absolutely right.

Although, if you think I'm extreme on this, then you have a rude awakening my friend.

I'm somewhere in the middle on those views. They aren't even close to extreme, on either side.

I suggest you find some small island and start your system, while the world watches in hysterics (till they see everyone dying) on TV like in that movie (dont ask)

Why? I work reasonably well within the system that we have.

I chafe when the government orders something that it doesn't have the authority to, and I'm glad that it is overturned when it is.

Slowly but surely control of decisions transfers from people, to the government as governments attempt to assert more power than it is supposed to.

This is the nature of governments. Plain and simple.

No offense, but you seem very naive (I'm guessing you are relatively young).

 

[ElasticNinja]

I'm not sure you could.

Read
Dont mind rural pubs - they are like the farmers, "hlppp us plzzz" for everything.

Also this - I'm astmatic.

It doesn't appear that you can grasp the difference between mistrust and hate.

That's fine, but understand it's your misunderstanding of both of those words that brings you to that conclusion,not any actual hate on my part.

Mistrust is fine if you prefer it.
But the it seems that in your eyes, anything with "government" in it = BAD

markets free of unnecessary regulation.

Free of unnecessary taxes.

Free of unnecessary government interference. You are absolutely right.

Your views of unbessary are quite warped...
Also I never said unneccessary in the first place - trying to put words in my mouth?

Although, if you think I'm extreme on this, then you have a rude awakening my friend.

I'm somewhere in the middle on those views. They aren't even close to extreme, on either side.

Certainly not in Europe
Not even in parts of England...

Why? I work reasonably well within the system that we have.

Good to hear you are happy

I chafe when the government orders something that it doesn't have the authority to, and I'm glad that it is overturned when it is.

Me too (unless its extremely urgently nessecary, and the issue is fixed with consent of the people (or their reps)

Slowly but surely control of decisions transfers from people, to the government as governments attempt to assert more power than it is supposed to.

This is the nature of governments. Plain and simple.

Not in Ireland...

 

[byteware]

Read
Dont mind rural pubs - they are like the farmers, "hlppp us plzzz" for everything.

Pub workers are exposed to smoke, because they work in a pub... oh noooo... Get a different job. There's no smoking in a supermarket.

Also this - I'm astmatic.

So am I. I grew up with two parents who smoked (granted I don't have serious asthma. I only realized it after I was stationed at a higher altitude location, and then at sea level. The difference in my ability to run was crazy).

Mistrust is fine if you prefer it.
But the it seems that in your eyes, anything with "government" in it = BAD

When you handle a snake, you know the bad things that can happen, and you work to prevent them. It's not a preference to mistrust the snake. It's simply how you handle a snake. Governments are much the same way. There is so much potential for abuse that if you don't handle it right, then the government WILL abuse you.

Your views of unbessary are quite warped...

I'm going with "typo". I even looked up unbessary, and it's not a word.

Also I never said unneccessary in the first place - trying to put words in my mouth?

No. I'm putting words in MY mouth. Those are MY words.

Certainly not in Europe
Not even in parts of England...

Yes, you are overly socialized. The Government is the answer to everything.

As a result, your citizens have a sense of entitlement. The French cannot even raise their retirement age without riots and strikes across the nation.

Governments are being forced to interfere with your lives in order to afford paying for your health care.

Report: U.K. drinking culture strains health system - USATODAY.com

It's NOT a good thing.

 

[ElasticNinja]

Pub workers are exposed to smoke, because they work in a pub... oh noooo... Get a different job. There's no smoking in a supermarket.

So am I. I grew up with two parents who smoked (granted I don't have serious asthma. I only realized it after I was stationed at a higher altitude location, and then at sea level. The difference in my ability to run was crazy).

Wouldnt you prefer if the government made it difficult for them to smoke, lengthining your life, their life and leaving ye have more money?

When you handle a snake, you know the bad things that can happen, and you work to prevent them. It's not a preference to mistrust the snake. It's simply how you handle a snake. Governments are much the same way. There is so much potential for abuse that if you don't handle it right, then the government WILL abuse you.

Your government likes hurting you?

unbessary

Again 2.9" screen + mini-qwerty = typos

Yes, you are overly socialized. The Government is the answer to everything.

As a result, your citizens have a sense of entitlement. The French cannot even raise their retirement age without riots and strikes across the nation.

Governments are being forced to interfere with your lives in order to afford paying for your health care.

Report: U.K. drinking culture strains health system - USATODAY.com

It's NOT a good thing.

The French issue is more of a cultural issue - Sarkozy is trying to push France in a more Anglo-American direction (as opposed to
The pension age needs to be increased, but France is not in a bad enough situation to see it.
And yes they love complaining
As for the UK thing, Britain's drinking culture is worrying (esp Scotland, NI) but in Ireland where we have privre its just as bad and the government intervenes too.

 

[byteware]

Wouldnt you prefer if the government made it difficult for them to smoke, lengthining your life, their life and leaving ye have more money?

Not anymore than I would prefer it if the government made it difficult for me to drink soda, or eat eggs.

I don't think it's the government's place to change my behavior to benefit ME.

Your government likes hurting you?

While that isn't the point of the analogy. Government's don't LIKE anything.

Here's a good quote:

There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.


I will go one further.

There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to change simply because you think it would be good for him.

The French issue is more of a cultural issue - Sarkozy is trying to push France in a more Anglo-American direction (as opposed to
The pension age needs to be increased, but France is not in a bad enough situation to see it.
And yes they love complaining
As for the UK thing, Britain's drinking culture is worrying (esp Scotland, NI) but in Ireland where we have privre its just as bad and the government intervenes too.

There will come a day, when the government will have to choose between modifying the behavior of it's citizens, and reducing health care.

Which do you think they will choose?

Which do you think they SHOULD choose?