Rogers Dream 1.6 Update

[loconet]

With the news of our Dream brothers being able to get the Magic, I think that a big thank you is in order to all who voiced their concerns here and the great effort shown to let Rogers/HTC know that times have changed. Special thanks goes to mjschmidt & GBD for their work.


Having said that, I'm still not satisfied with what we have been told. Yes, so we are getting the upgrade but all this mess has left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. I have lost confidence in both companies and I am pretty certain that I will not be staying with Rogers and definitely look at other phones other than HTC ones. What have Rogers / HTC learned from this? Android isn't going away anytime soon, it will only pick-up steam from here on. How can Rogers/HTC, as a customer, assure me that something like this will not happen again? What are their plans for future Android devices?

 

[porky1981]

With the news of our Dream brothers being able to get the Magic, I think that a big thank you is in order to all who voiced their concerns here and the great effort shown to let Rogers/HTC know that times have changed. Special thanks goes to mjschmidt & GBD for their work.


Having said that, I'm still not satisfied with what we have been told. Yes, so we are getting the upgrade but all this mess has left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. I have lost confidence in both companies and I am pretty certain that I will not be staying with Rogers and definitely look at other phones other than HTC ones. What have Rogers / HTC learned from this? Android isn't going away anytime soon, it will only pick-up steam from here on. How can Rogers/HTC, as a customer, assure me that something like this will not happen again? What are their plans for future Android devices?

rogers could have flipped us the bird and left us with nothing, but they stepped up (with mjschmidt et al's help) so I am pleased with this. Yes it left a bad 'taste' in my mouth, but so what? move on...

 

[loconet]

but so what? move on...

sorry but no.

 

[visitador02]

How to avoid similar occurrences in the future? Well, as Michael stated in his blog awhile ago, a smartphone is like a computer. Customers should start treating their phones as such and understand the limitations of software upgrades. How many people here are still using IBM 286 computers? Shall we start planning 3-5 obsolescence for our phones? How many people expect that their computers' hardware is able to handle new OS software after 5 or 6 years?

So, it will be up to the telcos and phone manufacturers to educate the potential clients the limitations of the hardware, as the Android software gets more sophisticated over time. They have to also promise in writing how long a particular version of the software is going to be supported (like Microsoft with Windows). It is obvious that Roger's sales staff was not fully trained to explain that (or if they knew, they just wanted to do a sale and say whatever the customer wanted to hear). If I was a customer, I would be quite angry to know that I have been tied to a 3 year contract for a phone that has no software support.

 

[loconet]

How to avoid similar occurrences in the future? Well, as Michael stated in his blog awhile ago, a smartphone is like a computer. Customers should start treating their phones as such and understand the limitations of software upgrades.

I think most people understand that. However, this wasn't the case here was it? The hardware was perfectly capable of handling the new OS version.

Of course if the hardware does not meet the requirements of the new software version, it would be silly to still demand an upgrade. That is not what I'm saying however. What I'm getting at is that Android is a platform that will continue to pick up speed from here on. There will be a lot of more phones, a lot more upgrade vectors. More importantly, there will be new versions that are supported by the current (or future) generation of hardware and there might be no technical limitations that prevent the upgrade. Is Rogers or HTC prepared to allow smooth software upgrades then? The times when your "phone" (if we can still call them "phones") was just an appliance, and once you bought it you kept it as it came out of the box, are over. Rogers and partners should understand that because customers, and developers such as myself, definitely do and will be expecting that.

The long term goal of the Open Handset Alliance was to smooth out issues like this, if carriers and manufacturers work together to accomplish those goals, their costumers and the companies themselves will see gains from this. Listen, I am glad that the immediate problem was fixed but I see this "Rogers Dream 1.6 Update" mess as a symptom of a bigger problem.

 

[EvilGuyWhoEatsBrains]

Thanks everyone for their hard work.

But I'm not going to get too excited about this annoucment until all the details are released.

And I'm still not sure what I'll do. I choose the Dream for the physical keyboard. So either I keep the Dream and root it, or be stuck with a phone I don't really care for.

If the wifey and I are going to be paying $140/month for our service with Rogers, we want a device we're going to be very happy with to make full use of the service.

 

[vikingisson]

And I'm still not sure what I'll do. I choose the Dream for the physical keyboard. So either I keep the Dream and root it, or be stuck with a phone I don't really care for.

If the wifey and I are going to be paying $140/month for our service with Rogers, we want a device we're going to be very happy with to make full use of the service.

Interesting developments but for sure some people want the keyboard. So would a 1.6 update be a dead end or would it extend the life long enough for people to later upgrade the hardware to the next device that will surely come? I'm surprised that a 1.6 for Dream wasn't offered.

Meanwhile, root and 1.6 ROM is working wonderfully so the news doesn't matter very much to me. And a 2.1 Magic ROM should be running on mine long before Rogers makes their (minimally) modified version.

 

[GreatBigDog]

Thanks everyone for their hard work.

But I'm not going to get too excited about this annoucment until all the details are released.

And I'm still not sure what I'll do. I choose the Dream for the physical keyboard. So either I keep the Dream and root it, or be stuck with a phone I don't really care for.

If the wifey and I are going to be paying $140/month for our service with Rogers, we want a device we're going to be very happy with to make full use of the service.

I too picked the dream based solely on the physical keyboard but the last couple of days I've been trying out an on screen keyboard. I find that I'm now just as fast with it as I am with the physical one.

 

[sconnelly]

Actually, what I always dreamed about is starting to happen!

I want to be able to buy a naked HW independent of any carrier!

I understand that some phones will and some will not work up here, but it is up to me to educate myself enough to buy the correct HW.

As mjschmidt says - these are little computers so let's buy them just as we buy computers.

With all due respect, that doesn't make any sense.

We have always had the option of purchasing any phone for any carrier in Canada (as long as it is compatible with the carriers signal format).

I can only speak for myself but I prefer to purchase a phone with a plan because I am not interested in paying $600.00 for my smartphone. The lease plan (essentially what it is) makes it easy for most people to obtain this technology.

As I mentioned before, Google really messed up! They are the ones that allowed the hardware manufacturers and carriers dictate what modifications could be done to the phones, and whether or not to allow OTA OS updates. If they followed the iPhone model, we would be in this messed up situation where your Android is destined to become outdated before it should. Even if we do receive the [likely] one-time OS 2.x update, it doesn't change anything. Meanwhile, owners of 2 year old iPhones, still receive the latest OS and will continue to enjoy updates (OTA or over the desktop) until the hardware actually becomes outdated.

It is because of this sad state of affairs, that I will never buy another Android, until they solve all these issues (but it is very likely that Apple will always be a generation ahead).

 

[Akkuzo]

I too originally got the dream specifically because of the hard keyboard. However since I installed a soft keyboard I find myself using it almost exclusively. I now find it cumbersome to have to push open the phone just to type and usually don't bother.

 

[vikingisson]

With all due respect, that doesn't make any sense.

We have always had the option of purchasing any phone for any carrier in Canada (as long as it is compatible with the carriers signal format).

I can only speak for myself but I prefer to purchase a phone with a plan because I am not interested in paying $600.00 for my smartphone. The lease plan (essentially what it is) makes it easy for most people to obtain this technology.

I'm the other way. I want the freedom but unlocked isn't nearly as easy or available as it is elsewhere. Expensive, limited, or must be imported. Buying from ebay or hong kong for example is not what I'm going to do. However sure, you can get unlocked and they don't all cost $600. Still the better deal long term. And someday we'll get lower rates without the contract.

As I mentioned before, Google really messed up! They are the ones that allowed the hardware manufacturers and carriers dictate what modifications could be done to the phones, and whether or not to allow OTA OS updates. If they followed the iPhone model, we would be in this messed up situation where your Android is destined to become outdated before it should. Even if we do receive the [likely] one-time OS 2.x update, it doesn't change anything. Meanwhile, owners of 2 year old iPhones, still receive the latest OS and will continue to enjoy updates (OTA or over the desktop) until the hardware actually becomes outdated.

It is because of this sad state of affairs, that I will never buy another Android, until they solve all these issues (but it is very likely that Apple will always be a generation ahead).

I disagree. Google does the right thing by giving it away without restrictions. Sure the manfs can and will do their own thing which will not be the same as the next guy. That's fine, I just have to be careful about my choice and have a lot more choices to satisfy my needs. If you want the iPhone experience then get an iPhone. To eliminate the extra complications that providers are doing you get an unlocked phone or root it and that is where google is good. They don't care if I root it, they just won't support it. Apple gets a lot more upset and can stand behind their rules when they do that easy push update that you say is ideal.

So it is the best and worst of all worlds. Subsidized and cheap (you pay big time over the long term) by the provider, takes your chances that they will send an update. Unlocked and free but up to you to be sure it works and then hope the manf keeps it updated. Subsidized or unlocked and use any of the varieties of free and legal ROMs. For sure it isn't as easy as an iPhone but I'm willing to take a few moments to learn what I need and from then on it is dead simple. That's why this whole Rogers thing doesn't affect me since I assume they will act this way and I can and did my own thing. 1.6 and happy. Android is much more to my liking than anything so far.

 

[sconnelly]

Originally Posted by androidandrogersdontmix
Don't take that offer guys there trying to pawn off some other android phone on you that they are just tryying to clear out anyways. Those htc magics sell on kijiji for 250 now. The deal I got from rogers o of p seems like a much better deal. After argueing with with henri from the o of p for awhile I got them to offer me a blackberry 9700 for free. This is the newest blackberry on the market. Ya ya I can hear u all now" but I want an android phone not a shitty blackberry". That why as soon as you get it you do what I did and sell it for 500 to a friend. They are going for 550 on kijiji so you can sell it buy a magic and still have around $250 for yourself to pay some of your overpriced rogers bills. They also did not make me send back my dream which is what I'm typeing on now lol.

Just thought id add this msg to the newest page so people know what the best offer I could get was. I figured if I left it on page 24 some people skipping to the last page might not see it.

After everything we have experienced, why oh why do some of you still hold on to this "love" for Android? This is not meant as an insult or otherwise, I just need to know what some of you still "love" about this phone or OS.

Having owned a Magic, and now have a "jail-broken" iPhone to compare to... I cannot see a single advantage to the Android. I used to think the lack of replaceable battery or the lack of multi-tasking were the biggest issues but both of those are non-issues now.

What is to love about the Android Magic over other smartphones? Am I the ONLY Android owner that had a terrible user experience with this phone (both hardware AND OS)?

 

[mjschmidt]

@Sconnelly: I'm surprised at you, especially since you pushed so hard for us to demand Rogers/HTC skip 1.6 and go right to 2.0.

It's as simple as this, our brains are all wired differently. Some people like Jazz, some people like rap. Some people like Westerns, some people like dramas. Some people like football, and some like soccer. I the end, some people like iPhones, and some like Android. There are benefits and deficiencies to each, which is why X vs Y arguments are seldom, if ever, "won".

In the end, you either like it or you don't but just because you don't like doesn't mean everyone should agree. If that were the case, well we wouldn't have multiple religions. ;-)

Before you try to counter with arguments for why iPhone is better than Android, keep in mind that 1. That's not what this thread is about; and 2. We don't care.

Your sudden (and supposedly not insulting) pronouncement is not going to make us all suddenly "see the light" and change.

Those who don't want to use Android won't. End of story.

 

[sconnelly]

@androidandrogersdontmix: No one is making a judgement of right or wrong. There is technically nothing wrong or illegal with what you did. I'm just saying, we don't want to be giving Rogers a reason to say no.

@boualem: For the record... No-Contract cost of HTC Dream at Rogers = $599.99. No-Contract cost of an iPhone 3G 8G = $580.00. So....

I suspect the reason for Rogers offering the Blackberry (only?) is because there are subsidies from Blackberry or there is a larger profit margin involved.

 

[vikingisson]

To each his own but I fail to see how this sours one over Android. It is about Rogers. Doesn't matter who they blame, I am their customer. And thanks to Android I was able to update to 1.6 and had/have no issues. I'm happy with the Magic and Android. Rogers, meh, but that's normal for any phone with them.

But if one is expecting the iPhone experience then they can use an iPhone. simple. iPhone has never been on my radar. Great hardware, wrong everything else.

and late breaking.... I personally don't care what phones at what provider at what price. I only care what phones work with a provider. I'll never again do a subsidized phone and I'll never buy it from the actual provider. That's my lesson from all of this. Android still gets my vote big time.

 

[bgoody]

To each his own but I fail to see how this sours one over Android. It is about Rogers. Doesn't matter who they blame, I am their customer. And thanks to Android I was able to update to 1.6 and had/have no issues. I'm happy with the Magic and Android. Rogers, meh, but that's normal for any phone with them.

But if one is expecting the iPhone experience then they can use an iPhone. simple. iPhone has never been on my radar. Great hardware, wrong everything else.

and late breaking.... I personally don't care what phones at what provider at what price. I only care what phones work with a provider. I'll never again do a subsidized phone and I'll never buy it from the actual provider. That's my lesson from all of this. Android still gets my vote big time.

Me too...no more carrier branded phones, branded or not. Even if you bought the Magic and unlocked it, you would still be waiting for Rogers or HTC to come up with the Android updates. Perhaps I'm dreaming (please say no) but my assumption is that if I buy an unlocked Nexus from Google that I will receive over the air updates as they come available, just like any other modern OS. If they insist, I will pay for it, a la Microsoft, but I don't believe they will leave us high and dry because they want to sell us another phone.

 

[vikingisson]

yep, never again a branded phone for me. But no worries about the Magic, easy enough to update it although not as simple as an OTA update. CM Updater does that but at least for the Rogers branded we also need a special kernel after the ROM so it isn't 100% automagic. Still easy to do once past the first ROM replacement. Download, drop on SD, boot and apply.

Come to think of it, the N1 is more like the iPhone in this way. Google makes the phone and the OS so updates can be that simple. Doesn't matter if HTC makes the phone, that Google logo means Google to me. The OS should come directly from them. I hope..

 

[sconnelly]

I think/hope that even rogers would see that as a mistake. Right now the only reason that rogers doesn't have people charging the corporate head quarters with pitchforks and torches is because 75% of the population that has the Dream and WANTS Android 1.6 has rooted their phone. I think/hope that rogers has realized this and they won't request another "perfect" SPL. Then again I have been wrong before, hell I have even been wrong earlier on today

75%???

You are kidding, right?

If I were to guess, I would estimate it is more like 5-10%.

 

[vikingisson]

yeah, no way to tell. However to clarify what I *think* he means is that a high percentage of those that really wanted it and know the difference have done so. Probably not that high but at least they know that they can.

As for charging headquarters, this is Canada, we bitch and moan but let them poke pitchforks in us instead of the other way. The only cure as I see it is to start buying our phones unlocked and unbranded. Eventually we might even get a lower usage rate like the civilized world does. Wind seems to be partially in that direction, their rates are lower because you pay more for the phone. Next step is total isolation between phone and provider, just sell me the SIM dammit. next time.....

 

[GreatBigDog]

After everything we have experienced, why oh why do some of you still hold on to this "love" for Android? This is not meant as an insult or otherwise, I just need to know what some of you still "love" about this phone or OS.

Having owned a Magic, and now have a "jail-broken" iPhone to compare to... I cannot see a single advantage to the Android. I used to think the lack of replaceable battery or the lack of multi-tasking were the biggest issues but both of those are non-issues now.

What is to love about the Android Magic over other smartphones? Am I the ONLY Android owner that had a terrible user experience with this phone (both hardware AND OS)?

It's advantage is that it's not an iPhone, pure and simple.
gbd

 

[sconnelly]

@Sconnelly: I'm surprised at you, especially since you pushed so hard for us to demand Rogers/HTC skip 1.6 and go right to 2.0.

It's as simple as this, our brains are all wired differently. Some people like Jazz, some people like rap. Some people like Westerns, some people like dramas. Some people like football, and some like soccer. I the end, some people like iPhones, and some like Android. There are benefits and deficiencies to each, which is why X vs Y arguments are seldom, if ever, "won".

In the end, you either like it or you don't but just because you don't like doesn't mean everyone should agree. If that were the case, well we wouldn't have multiple religions. ;-)

Before you try to counter with arguments for why iPhone is better than Android, keep in mind that 1. That's not what this thread is about; and 2. We don't care.

Your sudden (and supposedly not insulting) pronouncement is not going to make us all suddenly "see the light" and change.

Those who don't want to use Android won't. End of story.

Wow!

I sincerely apologize, if you (or others) feel insulted by my comment. I honestly didn't think I was stating anything contentious. And, in no way did I wish to devalue everyone's efforts in getting Rogers to commit to an OS update (or phone exchange for Magic owners).

For what it's worth, I still have my HTC Dream for my personal account (but I now have a corporate iPhone for development purposes).

I was simply wondering 'out loud' what people love about the Android OS.

Sorry, you are correct... off-topic... EOD.

 

[GreatBigDog]

I,m not sure about anywhear else in Canada, but you used to be able to get a computer from Aliant Telecom by signing for for a fixed term with their ADSL service, Those computers wouldn't have been locked to Aliant so why do wireless devices have to be. Providers should just be making the ECF equal to the remaining cost of whatever device the customer received at a discount and selling the devices unlocked.

In addition like computers I should be able to install any OS on my phone that I want without having to worry about my warranty. If something doesn't work because it's defective then honor the warranty. If it's not working because of software changes then charge the customer a diagnosis fee and send the phone back to them.

Googlers could do a better job of defining hardware specifications required for its software path. If people and carriers new that information, everyone would be able to make a more informed decision on what to buy or sell.

The biggest culprits in this fiasco are the manufactures. Their insistance on developing a costing ROM for manufacture is simply ludicrous. Why can't they just make their customizations to be flashed over the top of the stock Android release is beyond me.

gbd

 

[chrisyak]

in regards to carriers and their junk,i think google should provide the roms and updates period....allow the carriers to have removable apps/widgets but keep them far away from making the roms to avoid future nightmare issues like this........it would be cheaper and less headache and allow consumers to upgrade their OS trouble free......

 

[SouthofOttawa]

Question: If I read the update from HTC correctly, the Magic will be getting a minor upgrade in the next few weeks. Will this initial upgrade be mainly for SENSE UI? And then onto 2.1 by mid year? Does everyone think this is correct or did I read it wrong?

 

[GreatBigDog]

Question: If I read the update from HTC correctly, the Magic will be getting a minor upgrade in the next few weeks. Will this initial upgrade be mainly for SENSE UI? And then onto 2.1 by mid year? Does everyone think this is correct or did I read it wrong?

Essentialy you are correct. First it will be sense ui with some minor 1.5 updates and then onto 2.1 mid year. 2.1 will retain the sense hi.

gbd