2nd Amendment

[Member243850]

Hey guys, this seems pretty interesting topic actually.

Sorry if I sound like a complete idiot but does the 2nd amendment in the USA Law / Bill of Rights claim that people have the right to bear arms?

Is the USA government trying to take away fire arms from people?

Because that is crazy in my opion.

(Sorry in advance if I sound like a total stupido moron but I don't know much about the US of A so go easy on me thanks for understanding)

Thanks to any body who answers

 

[OstrichSaK]

Hey guys, this seems pretty interesting topic actually.

Sorry if I sound like a complete idiot but does the 2nd amendment in the USA Law / Bill of Rights claim that people have the right to bear arms?

Is the USA government trying to take away fire arms from people?

Because that is crazy in my opion.

(Sorry in advance if I sound like a total stupido moron but I don't know much about the US of A so go easy on me thanks for understanding)

Thanks to any body who answers

Basically every day our constitutional rights are being slowly stripped away one law at a time. Some days it's just more of a loss than others. I agree that this is foolish but whenever something bad happens (9/11 for example) then the politicians can use fear mongering to pass more laws which are presented as ways to 'secure' us better but are basically serving to strip us of our freedoms which, over time, will equal us being subjects to a tyrant and not free members of the greatest republic on the face of the earth. A lot people outside the US hate us for our freedom but the largest threat to our freedoms are actually our own elected officials unfortunately. Too many apathetic people don't realize how fleeting our freedom really is and don't realize how fragile it is and how much we have to fight just to keep it. The fewer people fighting for it and falling for the 'we need more security' rhetoric the harder the fight becomes.\

Hope that kind of makes sense.

 

[Member243850]

Basically every day our constitutional rights are being slowly stripped away one law at a time. Some days it's just more of a loss than others. I agree that this is foolish but whenever something bad happens (9/11 for example) then the politicians can use fear mongering to pass more laws which are presented as ways to 'secure' us better but are basically serving to strip us of our freedoms which, over time, will equal us being subjects to a tyrant and not free members of the greatest republic on the face of the earth. A lot people outside the US hate us for our freedom but the largest threat to our freedoms are actually our own elected officials unfortunately. Too many apathetic people don't realize how fleeting our freedom really is and don't realize how fragile it is and how much we have to fight just to keep it. The fewer people fighting for it and falling for the 'we need more security' rhetoric the harder the fight becomes.\

Hope that kind of makes sense.

Yeah man I TOTALLY hear you buddy.

+ 1 dude.

Well well well said man.

I am going to try be civil and not start World War 3 here but here goes:

I hate government scum too.

Politicians are always trying to crush human rights and just get votes to feed their selfish good for nothing selves and steal as much money as possible before they are kicked out or fired etc etc.

In SA here... this racist ****ing government just passed a "Secrecy Bill" so they can get away with anything and NEVER get caught.

BBC News - South Africa MPs pass controversial 'secrecy bill'

We are now doomed to hell.

This is now the beggining of a very very very bad road for us in SA.

This horrible government is trying to start a "White" Tax... yeah you heard me buddy.

A BLOODY WHITE TAX.

Can you bloody well believe it?

Governments and politicians are scum.

Period.

I hate the abuse of human rights just like this:

Tutu White Tax Is Racist

But yes I TOTALLY agree with you on this man.

It is sad politicians never ever care about the people and their interests but only care about themselves and disregard human rights as though it is like a plague to politicians.

ALL they care about are votes votes and more votes.

I am so damn sick and tired of people believing more and more and more in stupid corrupt governments and their destructive crap.

Why don't these damn governments just leave us alone and mind their own business?

As long as I don't hurt any one else, I should be free to do what I want to not what the government says I can and cannot do!!!!

THAT is real madness.

Thank you Ostrich Sak... thank you for sharing my thoughts on this subject.

At least I think you share the same thougths as I do.

 

[OstrichSaK]

Yeah man I TOTALLY hear you buddy.

+ 1 dude.

Well well well said man.

I am going to try be civil and not start World War 3 here but here goes:

I hate government scum too.

Politicians are always trying to crush human rights and just get votes to feed their selfish good for nothing selves and steal as much money as possible before they are kicked out or fired etc etc.

In SA here... this racist ****ing government just passed a "Secrecy Bill" so they can get away with anything and NEVER get caught.

BBC News - South Africa MPs pass controversial 'secrecy bill'

We are now doomed to hell.

This is now the beggining of a very very very bad road for us in SA.

This horrible government is trying to start a "White" Tax... yeah you heard me buddy.

A BLOODY WHITE TAX.

Can you bloody well believe it?

Governments and politicians are scum.

Period.

I hate the abuse of human rights just like this:

Tutu White Tax Is Racist

But yes I TOTALLY agree with you on this man.

It is sad politicians never ever care about the people and their interests but only care about themselves and disregard human rights as though it is like a plague to politicians.

ALL they care about are votes votes and more votes.

I am so damn sick and tired of people believing more and more and more in stupid corrupt governments and their destructive crap.

Why don't these damn governments just leave us alone and mind their own business?

As long as I don't hurt any one else, I should be free to do what I want to not what the government says I can and cannot do!!!!

THAT is real madness.

Thank you Ostrich Sak... thank you for sharing my thoughts on this subject.

At least I think you share the same thougths as I do.

Yeah, seems like we're on the same page.

 

[SamuraiBigEd]

I think you and I are basically saying the same thing here just in different ways. I'm not trying to dismiss proper training because I do LOTs of it in various forms. My point is that these generalizations that if you take some form of martial arts then you're good to go. Too much advertising making soccer moms think this is all they need is what I warn against. Sure it's good to have and I actually have lots of martial arts training of various backgrounds and disciplines but my statement is more that in addition to this hand to hand training you really should train with a firearm which you also carry. No matter how much you train in hand to hand combat and how big you are there are situations you can't contend with. This goes even more if you don't have size on your side and even more if you're untrained. That's my only point. Allow me to select an untrained male (I'm far too trained to fit this scenario) in the 250lb range to put up against your black belt Taekwondo 125lb female and she's going to have a tough time. That's all there is too it. Regardless of what some salesman tells you trying to get you to take martial arts size does matter. This also assumes that your attacker will have no training or even previous experience for that matter. It also assumes that there will be only one attacker. The point is there are just too many variables to NOT want to carry a firearm to protect yourself from them. Far too many times I find myself arguing with someone who takes Taekwondo and says they've been 'trained' and now they don't need a firearm which is idiocy. These statements generally come from small-in-stature women who I deal with is why I said the things I say. It's a lot like saying your 40lb domesticated dog could defend itself in a fight against a 80lb wolf because you've trained it to do so. There are some differences training can't overcome. Remember, I'm not someone who is discounting this training you talk about because I don't know it and don't believe it. I know it quite well and it's with this knowledge that I know it's not an end all solution for ANYONE let alone a smaller in stature female. In closing, I'm not saying training doesn't make a difference... it just doesn't make quite as big of a difference as some seem to think. After all, there's weight divisions & men and women fight separately in combat sports for a reason.

Yeah, we are pretty much on the same page. As I said and you have echoed "martial arts" training is not an end all solution, just another tool at your disposal.

I know exactly the people you speak of, there is a school here that falls under the McDojo category, pay us the money and we give you the belt, it is an utter joke. An acquaintance of mine who is a Tae Kwan Do Sifu has had some of the supposed black belts from this school come over to his and he takes them all the way back to the beginning, it is that bad. They were even told by the various governing bodies that they could no longer use the word Karate in the school name! Or my real favorite, the Krav Maga commercial that shows the couple with their kids in the parking garage that strip a gun from an armed assailant and take him out!

You are also correct, size is a major factor. The 125lb woman would be working very hard to defend herself, and with sufficient and continued training has a chance of succeeding but it is no guaranty. She is definitely better off than someone with no training.

I also don't advocate someone who is a novice or even moderately trained to attempt using martial arts at all, they are more a danger to themselves than to an assailant.

Martial arts is only part of a whole which includes proper training and proficiency with a handgun. And these are to only be used as a method of last resort, I don't care how it makes me look, my first goal is to avoid any situation that requires either.

I blame the movies. You would be surprised at how many guys walking out of the theater after seeing "Enter the Dragon" think they can break Oldsmobiles and take on a bar filled with ruffians. They can't, they usually get hurt. Learn martial arts and you can defeat anyone in any situation because your skill will be vast, grasshopper. Or so the perception goes.

I am a Segal fan for some God only knows reason and I know when he enters a room filled with bad guys, all it takes is one bad guy with a gun and Mr. Segal could be history. Every martial art has limits and they cannot outrun a load of double-aught. I am not so sure any martial arts expert/master could defeat a large group of bad guys as is often what we see played out in the movies.

I say take a self-defense course and stay out of iffy situations. Your brain, your inner little guy saying "not so fast" and a little common sense will likely keep you safe.

If you are hell bent on carrying a gun, take a course from qualified experts and learn why life with a gun ain't like in the movies or the wild west or the dime novels Albert Aikin wrote.

You too are also correct. There is a limit to how many assailants even a master can handle and weapons of any kind can and usually do reduce that number to one. You can't block a bullet!

We are trained to avoid confrontation and only engage an opponent if there is no way out, which is what all programs should teach no matter the discipline. One caveat, research the self-defense course intensely, don't think that just because somebody has a black belt or they were supposedly a hand-to-hand instructor in the military they are qualified to instruct. There a lot of self-proclaimed experts out there that just want your money, find a school that has proper affiliation and documentation to prove it. A legitimate school will have a structured program that drills the basics into you till you are sick of them, but that is what it takes to learn and eventually master any martial art. If they tell you "you can have a black belt in a few short years" run for the hills.

Concealed hand gun licensing carries tremendous responsibility and should not be taken lightly. In many states it comes with legal obligation to render aid if you are in a position to do so, if you are not willing to do this then you should not pursue a CHL.

You also need to train with your weapons of choice regularly and professional training is a must for most. I have been labeled a "gun nut" because I keep 250-500 rounds of ammo for all my weapons on hand, but this is because I will go through 100 rounds in practice on a regular basis and this should be done by anyone carrying a weapon. That and ammo is cheaper in bulk just like anything else...if Costco would only sell ammo!

 

[IOWA]

Sure thing. Next we'll just require that one obtain a permit in order to exercise free speech. After all, if properly done it will make everyone much safer, right? I'm not one who believes the federal government can make many situations better long-term. I don't think permits for anything protect anyone. The example I continually use is that in order to legally drive an automobile law stipulates that one must acquire a permit. Everyone is safe, right? Nobody breaks laws once they have a permit and surely nobody would dare drive an automobile without the proper permit, right? The DMV is widely known as a smoothly operation facility that does a great job of saving lives. Let's add a DMV type Department to every constitutional right we are born with and everyone will be able to skip down the streets holding hands in complete safety without any worry of harm.

Actually, we do need permits now to exercise our free speech. Not to start another argument or sidetrack, but the 1st amendment has been trampled on continuously as well. We need "permits" to assemble "lawfully" and is the basis of most of the arrests with all this OWS stuff. Now I'm not a fan of these protests because they simply aren't accomplishing anything. Protesting just to protest without any kind of solution presented doesn't do anybody any good, and there are many more effective ways to protest if they really wanted to.

However, the protests at the Universities such as the one here at Davis were peaceful, and did not intrude on anyone. They were doing no harm, yet the basis for the attacks and pepper spraying of innocent people is because they did not have a PERMIT to assemble.. bullshit.

PEPPER SPRAY: UC Davis students 'maced' in Occupy protest - YouTube


Anytime a "permit" is issued for a liberty that liberty is essentially taken away, and not only are some people ok with this, they are encouraging it.

Soon, let's have "permits" in order to do anything... own guns, speak freely, use the internet(yeah, they are really working on permits to use the internet not only the the States, but in other countries as well), and having children.

Yeah, permits sound like a great idea.

Edit: Adding some links

http://www.techi.com/2011/01/obamas-national-internet-id/

Yes, the internet ID program is being billed as temporary now, but for how long? History continously shows and proves any government ID program can and will be expanded to be mandatory. Proof?

Social Security number -- The SS# was originally only supposed to be for Social Security payouts. It wasn't even mandatory. Fast forward to today... oh wait...

Drivers License -- Was originally just used for driving. Sounds simple right? And *gasp* at first you didn't even need one. Fast forward to today... oh wait...

 

[batgeek]

stupid hippies are stupid.

 

[Bob Maxey]

You also need to train with your weapons of choice regularly and professional training is a must for most. I have been labeled a "gun nut" because I keep 250-500 rounds of ammo for all my weapons on hand, but this is because I will go through 100 rounds in practice on a regular basis and this should be done by anyone carrying a weapon. That and ammo is cheaper in bulk just like anything else...if Costco would only sell ammo!

Not sure you are a gun nut. Sadly, anyone that says the word Gun is a crackpot.

I do not carry, but I think perhaps taking a basic shooting class is in order.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Too many apathetic people don't realize how fleeting our freedom really is and don't realize how fragile it is and how much we have to fight just to keep it. The fewer people fighting for it and falling for the 'we need more security' rhetoric the harder the fight becomes.\

Hope that kind of makes sense.

Makes sense to me, Ostrich. People need to learn how we got our freedoms and how many brave men and women died to protect them. From the beginning to now. And sadly, from now going forward.

Freedom was never free and it will never be free; it came at a terrible cost.

 

[TJGoSurf]

Just a little of my background, as former military member and security consultant. I've been in firefights on five continents, I'm for less gun control. And I will use this example, january of 2002 were meeting with the northern alliance. And a taliban snuck in there, pulled out an sks and before I had drawn practically everyone in the room had pulled a weapon and put several rounds into him. We counted 276 holes in the wall behind him.

Moral of the story is if everyone is packing no one except the severely dumb will do anything stupid.

 

[batgeek]

reality of the story: there will always be someone to try and get away with something. sometimes they do.

and are you trying to equate being in country to being in CONUS? serious? really?

 

[TJGoSurf]

reality of the story: there will always be someone to try and get away with something. sometimes they do.

and are you trying to equate being in country to being in CONUS? serious? really?

What would have happened in arizona if more people would have been armed? People are not as civilized as people in the states like to believe. I would much rather be prepared than scrambling for a weapon.

 

[batgeek]

What would have happened in arizona if more people would have been armed?

who knows.

People are not as civilized as people in the states like to believe.

perhaps. but you're trying to equate something that happened in Afghanistan to here in the US.

I would much rather be prepared than scrambling for a weapon.

you're preaching to the choir here.