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Microsoft Surface tablet/Windows 8

Bob Maxey said:
They are certainly going after business. At least that is one segment MS considers important. They likely want to target Google and Apple as well. Actually, I think they are going after anyone with a spare five hundred bucks.

One thing I do wonder about is the version of Office shipped with the device. Apparently, it is the Home/Student version which will require upgrading due to the licensing restrictions. A business--unless MS changes something--cannot use the shipped version of Office for business.

Does the Pro version address this or am I mistaken?

If I had a Surface, I would use it to make a buck and the last thing I would want to do is have to turn around and spend extra cash to upgrade Office to remain legal. Someone kindly clarify; Google seems to have a problem divining the answer.

I know, I should read the TOS before I buy, but I have had my share of curious issues with software and hardware licensing and I know there is crap hidden in the fine print that does not make any sense. Like for example, I cannot legally use my cell phone for business.

When I bought it, I never thought to consider this curious provision in the TOS and reasonable people would not give any thought to the possibility that they buy a cell and cannot us it for business.

I can well imagine many smaller businesses and Mom and Pop type operations that will purchase the Surface and never delve into the "hidden" costs.
Click to expand...

Consider the Surface Pro as basically a desktop/laptop. Its going to run an x64/x86 full version of Windows 8. Basically, its a laptop without a keyboard. You can go ahead and uninstall Win8 from it and install a touch version of Win7 (like on Samsung Series 7 tablets).

You can play Starcraft on it if you want. But of course you'll have to use keyboard and mouse.

EDIT: Sorry I was meaning any tablet running Win8 Pro, like an ASUS 808 (it runs i5 and 2GB RAM). I realize you were talking about the actual Surface Pro device.
 
I was at the mall today and got a chance to play with one of the MS Surface tablets at the MS kiosk. I chose to use the tactile keyboard instead of the touch screen one. The keyboard was pretty good. My only issue is that I kept accidentally hitting the track pad as I type. This cause the cursor to jump as I type requiring me to correct the error.

I asked the rep if there were a way to turn off the track pad and he said there isn't. I have a Transformer tablet with a keyboard dock. I have the same issues with this keyboard, but with the Transformer dock, there is a way to turn off the track pad, eliminating this problem.

I played around with Word and Excel as productivity was what I really wanted to see. I found that both was changed a bit and I was somewhat confused on how to create a new document. It seems MS made whole sale changes to how the interface worked. For Windows veterans, there will definitely be some significant adjustments to make. I'm still getting used to Office 2010 when they changed a bunch of stuff around. Win8 seems to be an even bigger change.

I didn't try much of anything else due to time constraints and other commitments. From what I have seen so far, I don't see the change as being a significant improvement over Win7 to be worth the confusion of changing a bunch of stuff around. I really think that MS didn't do a good a job as Asus when trying to make a tablet and keyboard combo. Asus is supposedly making Win8 devices. I am a fan of the Transformer because it is the perfect form factor for me. All I want is Excel on my Transformer. Excel on Win8 beats all of the spreadsheet apps I have tried on my Transformer. The Transformer beats Surface in practically everything else based on what I have seen.
 
@Stuntman

If you get an ASUS 808 (basically this runs i5 and Windows 8 Pro and has a keyboard dock where you can turn off the trackpad), you can install Office 2010 and be done with your problem
 
I had some more time at the mall today to try out the Surface tablets. I tried the other keyboard without the tactile keys. I was actually impressed with it. Even though it looks like a touch screen keyboard, it has raised keys. Also, you can rest your fingers on the keyboard and it will not register a key press until you press down with some force.

Personally, I don't see myself getting a new PC or tablet for at least the next year or so. If I were, I would probably consider a Win8 tablet to replace my PC and tablet. Most likely something from Asus. I still really like the Transformer form factor with the superior keyboard. As much as I am impress with the Surface keyboards, I still think the Transformer keyboard dock is superior. I can actually place it comfortably on my lap when sitting on the couch. I can also tilt the screen at any angle instead of the one and only angle on the Surface tablets.
 
I was at Best Buy yesterday. Although they didnt have the Surface on display yet, i did try another brand of Windows 8. It was actually somewhat pleasant to use. I tried Desktop mode as well, and it wasnt as hard to control windows as i thought. Seeing it on display, it looks very pretty as well while the "Modern UI" is on screen.

I will be buying a ~10 inch tablet soon, because i seek more portability than my current laptop. Its between iPad and Windows 8 right now. Im leaning towards Windows 8 to support Microsoft and to use something new, while being able to use Windows programs i currently use.
 
I really enjoyed reading these posts re Win 8 and devices etc.
But my problem is and has been for a long time a lack of compatibility through devices.
I have an iPod 32 used for music in the car and little else, a Galaxy S2, Asus Transformer TF 101, and an HP DV6 laptop plus a 1tb portable drive I carry about on holiday etc.

Up till this week I ran Win 7 dual booted with Ubuntu 12.04 plus of course android and ios, now I cannot open Doc's created in Open Office or Word/Excel on these devices no app appears to exist to do so, very frustrating!
Ubuntu has gone after many years, desktop, cannot run Camera software etc. tried Mint which kept freezing / crashing.
Now it ha always seemed to me that the ideal thing was to run the same O/S over all machines, yes I know but Apple is to restricted and expensive.
So this week I swapped 7 for 8 pro which although I and still finding my way around I like, the idea being that should this remain so I will swap the Asus for a tablet running Win 8 pro likewise the phone when the contract is up, thus being able to run Office on all with Doc's stored in some cloud [M/S?] I hope to replace the 101 with the new Asus and Win 8 pro if it is on the market in time, January 13?
What I really like about Win 7 is I can get rid of Facebook, Twitter etc. it really bugs me that they are built into Android I never use them and don't want them, and I still think Outlook is the only mail client worth having.
I cannot help feel that this would make my life much simpler, what do others think?

 
As luck would have it, my hard drive on my 5 year old Athlon 5600+ home desktop computer crashed. I bought a new hard drive and re-installed Vista from my recovery disks. I wanted to completely update Vista which took over 12 hours (There were at least 4 or 5 times with 20-80 updates) to bring my 2007 vista OS up to date.

I then partitioned the hard drive, bought Windows 8 online and loaded it on the new partition so that I have a dual boot. The Windows 8 install was very easy and fast (less than an hour).

The new start screen with the tiles is awkward to use. First of all, I do not have a touch screen. I'm not sure I will get one; I am not a big fan of fingerprints all over my monitor. I am not sure that a touchscreen is more efficient to than using a mouse. My preference is to go to larger and multiple monitors which necessitates the monitors set farther away from me. Having to reach for the screen and to make large sweeps seems to be less efficient than a traditional mouse. Secondly, the tiles are ugly in my opinion. They are large and plain and remind me of children's megablocks. I actually prefer the aero graphics over the plain Win 8 graphics. I am so used to the icons that you find on old windows, iOS and Android. They seem to float almost 3d like on the screen. On the other hand, the tiles appear very 2D. Thirdly, the interface is not very intuitive and you need to make multiple moves to do what used to be simple tasks. Even if you want to stay in the traditional desktop, Win 8 will direct you back to the tiles. With more time, I may get used to it. But right now, I really do not care for it at all. Finally, the apps are very limited and appear primitive. The bing maps app is very low end.

So far I can tell that Win 8 is a lot smoother and faster than Vista. If you want to get some more life out of a Vista computer, I think it is worth the $40. However, I really did not notice a big difference from Windows 7 in terms of speed or smoothness (compared desktop to desktop, I prefer the familiarity of Win 7). I will stick with Win 7 on my other computers (work and home laptops). I would also hold off on buying any new Win 8 computer unless you absolutely need a new computer. Most do not have touchscreens at this time. Also, I would like to see some of the newer designs (some have screens which can flip over).
 
chris46310 said:
What I really like about Win 7 is I can get rid of Facebook, Twitter etc. it really bugs me that they are built into Android I never use them and don't want them, and I still think Outlook is the only mail client worth having.
Click to expand...

F.Y.I FB and Twitter are NOT built into Android. They're sometimes added by the handset makers and/or the carriers. You should be able to remove them as well, although sometimes root might be required.

You are joking about Outlook?
 
@mikedt - actually, I prefer Outlook 2010 over other mail clients. Don't really know why. Maybe I just am so much used to it. What's with all the hate anyway?
 
chris46310 said:
I really enjoyed reading these posts re Win 8 and devices etc.
But my problem is and has been for a long time a lack of compatibility through devices.
I have an iPod 32 used for music in the car and little else, a Galaxy S2, Asus Transformer TF 101, and an HP DV6 laptop plus a 1tb portable drive I carry about on holiday etc.

Up till this week I ran Win 7 dual booted with Ubuntu 12.04 plus of course android and ios, now I cannot open Doc's created in Open Office or Word/Excel on these devices no app appears to exist to do so, very frustrating!
Ubuntu has gone after many years, desktop, cannot run Camera software etc. tried Mint which kept freezing / crashing.
Now it ha always seemed to me that the ideal thing was to run the same O/S over all machines, yes I know but Apple is to restricted and expensive.
So this week I swapped 7 for 8 pro which although I and still finding my way around I like, the idea being that should this remain so I will swap the Asus for a tablet running Win 8 pro likewise the phone when the contract is up, thus being able to run Office on all with Doc's stored in some cloud [M/S?] I hope to replace the 101 with the new Asus and Win 8 pro if it is on the market in time, January 13?
What I really like about Win 7 is I can get rid of Facebook, Twitter etc. it really bugs me that they are built into Android I never use them and don't want them, and I still think Outlook is the only mail client worth having.
I cannot help feel that this would make my life much simpler, what do others think?
Click to expand...
First, welcome to the forums! I think you make some valid points, and I'm sure that MS is counting on a lot of people feeling the same way.
 
chanchan05 said:
@mikedt - actually, I prefer Outlook 2010 over other mail clients. Don't really know why. Maybe I just am so much used to it. What's with all the hate anyway?
Click to expand...

To be fair, it's not just Outlook. I've just never had the need for any local email client, well not since we've had web based email.

I've no need to be downloading all my email to an email client on a PC. I'd rather just keep it all in the cloud, so I can deal with it on any device.
 
One of the best days of my life was when I got rid of my last winmo device and no longer had to use Outlook. I know it has its fans, but I always felt it was like using a bazooka to kill a fly.

I played with a surface briefly this afternoon. Liked the magnetic catch and the keyboard lid (it was the better one). Still hate the look of (not) metro. The device is a bit confusing to use and the need to drop to the desktop to use office and office touch integration reeks of beta. The tablet part itself felt clunky, compared to an ipad or most android tables I've played with. I wasn't expecting to be overwhelmed as I haven't enjoyed the win 8 interface on any other device I've played with, but considering the all the buzz, I was expecting more. Typical MS. The first version or two always suck . The question is is, do they have time to get it right?
 
mikedt said:
To be fair, it's not just Outlook. I've just never had the need for any local email client, well not since we've had web based email.

I've no need to be downloading all my email to an email client on a PC. I'd rather just keep it all in the cloud, so I can deal with it on any device.
Click to expand...

I've used Outlook to manage my emails since before I started using smartphones so its probably just force of habit for me to manage my emails and calendar from it. Also, it's convenient for me to just whip out my laptop and read emails without having to connect. Internet isn't accessible everywhere here where I am.

pastafarian said:
One of the best days of my life was when I got rid of my last winmo device and no longer had to use Outlook. I know it has its fans, but I always felt it was like using a bazooka to kill a fly.

I played with a surface briefly this afternoon. Liked the magnetic catch and the keyboard lid (it was the better one). Still hate the look of (not) metro. The device is a bit confusing to use and the need to drop to the desktop to use office and office touch integration reeks of beta. The tablet part itself felt clunky, compared to an ipad or most android tables I've played with. I wasn't expecting to be overwhelmed as I haven't enjoyed the win 8 interface on any other device I've played with, but considering the all the buzz, I was expecting more. Typical MS. The first version or two always suck . The question is is, do they have time to get it right?
Click to expand...

I think, that yes they have time. At this point many people are just starting to make the jump to Windows 7 since prices are going down. Laptops and desktops running Win7 have also got their prices decreasing due to the expected influx of new models running Windows 8. Many people are also probably going to skip the update on their PCs since Win7 is still good, much like how many people skipped Vista. So yes, they have time to make it better while the rest of the PC world is just starting to move forward to their previous generation.
 
funpig said:
As luck would have it, my hard drive on my 5 year old Athlon 5600+ home desktop computer crashed. I bought a new hard drive and re-installed Vista from my recovery disks. I wanted to completely update Vista which took over 12 hours (There were at least 4 or 5 times with 20-80 updates) to bring my 2007 vista OS up to date.

I then partitioned the hard drive, bought Windows 8 online and loaded it on the new partition so that I have a dual boot. The Windows 8 install was very easy and fast (less than an hour).

The new start screen with the tiles is awkward to use. First of all, I do not have a touch screen. I'm not sure I will get one; I am not a big fan of fingerprints all over my monitor. I am not sure that a touchscreen is more efficient to than using a mouse. My preference is to go to larger and multiple monitors which necessitates the monitors set farther away from me. Having to reach for the screen and to make large sweeps seems to be less efficient than a traditional mouse. Secondly, the tiles are ugly in my opinion. They are large and plain and remind me of children's megablocks. I actually prefer the aero graphics over the plain Win 8 graphics. I am so used to the icons that you find on old windows, iOS and Android. They seem to float almost 3d like on the screen. On the other hand, the tiles appear very 2D. Thirdly, the interface is not very intuitive and you need to make multiple moves to do what used to be simple tasks. Even if you want to stay in the traditional desktop, Win 8 will direct you back to the tiles. With more time, I may get used to it. But right now, I really do not care for it at all. Finally, the apps are very limited and appear primitive. The bing maps app is very low end.

So far I can tell that Win 8 is a lot smoother and faster than Vista. If you want to get some more life out of a Vista computer, I think it is worth the $40. However, I really did not notice a big difference from Windows 7 in terms of speed or smoothness (compared desktop to desktop, I prefer the familiarity of Win 7). I will stick with Win 7 on my other computers (work and home laptops). I would also hold off on buying any new Win 8 computer unless you absolutely need a new computer. Most do not have touchscreens at this time. Also, I would like to see some of the newer designs (some have screens which can flip over).
Click to expand...

Yes, it definitely is a different way of doing things than 7. However, from what I can tell, its not all that different from the Windows 7 menu. You can still type to search for the application you want. And really, that's all I need. I found that most of the start menu became useless once they introduced type to search in 7 (mousing through your programs is wayyy too slow). Its just faster to press Windows key, type "Microsoft Word", press enter and Word pops up.
 
So, I was watching the Bloomberg TV channel yesterday afternoon and they had a quick tech segment come on - and their guy discussing his new Surface.

When the talking head asked him how he liked it, he replied - Well, it crashed and lost my document. But, it's new.

I just shook my head. Not gloating or anything - I just shook my head.
 
After their editorial saying the iPad mini is better than the N7 because it cost more, I've finally lost credibility in Engadget.
With that said, I enjoyed watching and reading both their and the Verges reviews for the Surface. I think I may be done with touch screen tablets that big, but Win8 seems promising.
 
dreadnatty08 said:
After their editorial saying the iPad mini is better than the N7 because it cost more, I've finally lost credibility in Engadget.
With that said, I enjoyed watching and reading both their and the Verges reviews for the Surface. I think I may be done with touch screen tablets that big, but Win8 seems promising.
Click to expand...

Engadget are apple fanboys btw.
 
dreadnatty08 said:
After their editorial saying the iPad mini is better than the N7 because it cost more, I've finally lost credibility in Engadget.
Click to expand...

I've lost credibiliy in Engadget 2 years ago when they did a camera phone comparison and made the best camera phone take the worse pictures. I'm not talking about it being slightly worse than other camera phones. Those pictures look as bad as my 1.3 MP camera phone from 6 years ago.
 
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