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Hugo Chavez Dead: How do you think this will impact the Venezuelan people & the US.
- Thread starter xploPR
- Start date
SiempreTuna
Android Expert
The government is going for a quick election - as specified in the constitution - so I expect the only change will be that they'll win more with more than the 55% they got last time around.
Chavez has been out of action for a while now so the govt has some experience of running the country without him. I expect they'll be fine for a while, though probably no less anti-US - the vice-president said that the US (well, he didn't actually name the US, but you knew who he meant) gave Chavez his cancer yesterday. The fact that Chavez and most of the dodgy tyrants he hung out with are dead now clearly isn't going to make them any less entertaining.
Be interesting to see what happens at the next election, though. Have to hope that no American is involved in an assasination attempt on any future president.
Chavez has been out of action for a while now so the govt has some experience of running the country without him. I expect they'll be fine for a while, though probably no less anti-US - the vice-president said that the US (well, he didn't actually name the US, but you knew who he meant) gave Chavez his cancer yesterday. The fact that Chavez and most of the dodgy tyrants he hung out with are dead now clearly isn't going to make them any less entertaining.
Be interesting to see what happens at the next election, though. Have to hope that no American is involved in an assasination attempt on any future president.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
To be fair, the last election was not rigged. Of course, the media is somewhat restricted and there are plenty of shadowy things going on, still Chavez got a margin of 10%.
As for Hugo himself. He lifted an awful lot of people out of poverty and helped address the issue of inequality in Venezuela. His methods though were lacking at best. Seemingly random, and unfair, nationalisation has led to a capital flight. Venezuela is not a country one would want to invest in. Furthermore, stupid, dumb measures such as subsidising petrol to the extent that it costs 5-8% what it does in Europe per litre are indicative of Chavez's typical 'sounds good' economic strategy.
Chavez may have helped a lot of Venezuelans, and the economy to an extent, but he was not a good or intelligent premier in my opinion. Furthermore, his foreign policy was idiotic in the extreme. Constantly criticising the US and Europe, while supporting dictators such as Gadaffi and Assad was painful to watch.
Hopefully Venezuela will move away from Chavismo - any benefits such leadership may bring have run their course at this stage. What Venezuela needs now is a smart leader, who isn't in the pockets of the rich, but actually understands the necessity of capital, and knows how to run an economy.
SiempreTuna
Android Expert
My only quibble is with the comment regarding the media being 'somewhat' restricted. I think when you send a judge to jail for siding with a journalist who criticised you, that's a little more than 'somewhat' restricted 
Apparently, Chavez himself claimed his rabid anti-Americanism was because three Americans were involved in an attempted assassination that very nearly killed him. The only reason it failed was a guard who was involved realised the killers would also kill any witnesses and turned his gun on them.
Naturally, Chavez blamed the CIA. Don't know if there's any truth in that. I know at one time the CIA stopped assassinations, however it is killing an awful lot of (mostly innocent) people these days.
Apparently, Chavez himself claimed his rabid anti-Americanism was because three Americans were involved in an attempted assassination that very nearly killed him. The only reason it failed was a guard who was involved realised the killers would also kill any witnesses and turned his gun on them.
Naturally, Chavez blamed the CIA. Don't know if there's any truth in that. I know at one time the CIA stopped assassinations, however it is killing an awful lot of (mostly innocent) people these days.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Not sure those that tried to eliminate that oozing black but boil would kill the guard who was just doing his job poorly.
Does not seem reasonable.
And who really knows what some guard over there has to say. Perhaps he was more scared of what Chavez would do to him if he did not turn his guns of these mean old killers.
Perhaps this guard is telling a story just to stay alive? That is, if he does not say what he was told to say, he is ended prematurely. Or his family.
Not sure the story is accurate.
The CIA could have been behind it. They are not allowed to work in this country. Perhaps they do after all. Nobody in this group is deep enough inside these three letter groups to know anything anyway.
SiempreTuna
Android Expert
Almost certainly not, but it's what Ken Livingston, the former London mayor who did a lot of work with Chavez and had a good personal raport with him, reported that Chavez himself claimed.
As for Cuba, I'm sure they are watching the situation with interest
Truth is, with Ramon at 84, Fidel at 85 and Chavez's Socalist Party likely to win the forthcoming election, chances are good that Venezuelan policy's not going to change until after the Castros - and with them, the remnants of the communists - have gone.
SiempreTuna
Android Expert
Some of the things he did for the poor were pretty good, there's no getting around it. There were also reasonable arguments for nationalising some companies/industries where the Venezualans had been royally screwed.
On the other hand, some of the things he did with the opposition and dodgy dictators across the world, not so much.
But anyone with an ounce of compassion will miss a world leader who stood up before the press and said "Mr Bush, you are a donkey".
Classic.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
People that praise Chavez absolutely do not know their history. Clearly, that is a problem. they listen to the left that loves Chavez and sadly, they do not know their history, either.
Chavez is dead and that is a grand thing.
Grandma was right. "We buy 'em books and they eat the pages."
Chavez is dead and that is a grand thing.
Grandma was right. "We buy 'em books and they eat the pages."
JimmyRayBob
Android Enthusiast
Too bad Nancy Pelosi, Charles Rangel and a bunch of your beloved Democrats didn't feel that way, huh? Heck, even Pelosi called him an everyday thug.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
To be fair, it really is only naive young people in shitty colleges who believe that. And socialist types but they are few on far between across the pond.
SiempreTuna
Android Expert
I guess it's fair to say that in Europe, we don't fear socialism the way you do in the states. It's just another political theory that has some good points, some bad but has never worked in practice.
We probably didn't see Chavez as the devil incarnate in the way people in the US clearly did. He was just another in a long line of unpleasant south American dictators. Certainly not nice, but probably not quite as unpleasant as many of the south American leaders the west propped up during the cold war.
We probably didn't see Chavez as the devil incarnate in the way people in the US clearly did. He was just another in a long line of unpleasant south American dictators. Certainly not nice, but probably not quite as unpleasant as many of the south American leaders the west propped up during the cold war.
rootbrain
Android Enthusiast
We don't fear Socialism. We fear those who are doomed to repeat history. I've worked for the same company for over 30 years. Some pension, but mostly money I put away for retirement. With SS (if I get any) I will have about 1/3 my monthly income.
If I lived in Greece, I would have retired with full pension, medical/dental over a decade ago.
Where are they now? Socialism and entitlements (think Democrats here in the US) will NEVER work. The many living on the backs of the few.
There's nothing wrong with offering someone a hand. It's when it becomes a handout that things go awry.
Speed Daemon
Android Expert
The American people as a whole sure do fear "Socialism" in a vague and ignorant way. That's why bashing non-existent "Socialism" as bogeymen has been very successful propaganda for the GOP in recent years. It's all based on ignorance, and the fear that comes from being ignorant of how everyday things work.
Why should I connect the word "Socialism" with the Democratic party in the US? I can see your game (see above), but the fact of the matter is that South Americans have every right to react to centuries of gunboat diplomacy from the US, that the former banana republics have ample reason to reject ALL of the doctrines that the US stands for. I can't blame them one bit. This is a monster that the US created, and we need to accept that the US not only can be the "bad guy", but often is.
When it comes to entitlements, I presume that you're hoping the reader will confuse it with welfare, right? Well that's not true! Entitlements are things that we are entitled to! It's our money! Money made by the sweat of our brow, taken out of our paychecks (FICA deductions) and put into trust funds so that we will have our money when we need it in our old age. It's none of the things that you're claiming!
Does Venezuela even have social trust funds? Or is this a snipe hunting trip?
SiempreTuna
Android Expert
The Democrats are 'socialist'?!!
On what planet?
In most policy areas, Obama has been more right wing than Reagan was - and Reagan was a self-declared right wing radical. Sure, these days the GOP would spit in his eye and call him a Liberal (incidentally, a compliment almost anywhere else on earth), but that's only a measure of how ridiculously right wing the GOP have become.
On what planet?
In most policy areas, Obama has been more right wing than Reagan was - and Reagan was a self-declared right wing radical. Sure, these days the GOP would spit in his eye and call him a Liberal (incidentally, a compliment almost anywhere else on earth), but that's only a measure of how ridiculously right wing the GOP have become.
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
Here's an idea. Why not stop taking our money and let us keep it and let us put it in funds of our own where it'll grow at more than the paltry 2-3% the feds are giving us and we'll all be better off in old age?
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
Actually Greece has worse "entitlements" than many an ex-communist country. It has one of the highest rates of private health spending in Europe, it's awful.
Greece's problem was lack of collection of taxes, lack of taxes, and a bloated, overfull public sector. And crucially, corruption.
France is widely regarded as uncompetitive (because it is), yet it has a budget deficit half the size of the US's, and has a better quality of life.
You can pick and choose I guess.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
Tell that to Cypriot savers. Banks collapse. Stocks fall.
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
If things get so bad that you're left w/nothing then the government is going down at that point anyway so you're screwed no matter where you have your money.
Speed Daemon
Android Expert
Is anyone talking about Venezuela any more? Nobody? 