-
After 15+ years, we've made a big change: Android Forums is now Early Bird Club. Learn more here.
Innovation - Iphone 5s VS. Moto X nice read
- Thread starter shalemail
- Start date
-
- Tags
- motorola moto x
VoidedSaint
Resident Ninja
the comments section is hilarious.
shalemail
Android Expert
If by hilarious you mean full of a bunch of idiots throwing around a bunch of nonsense then yes very funny.
I wish people could understand that 95% of the cell phone experience is personal preference which in most cases has nothing to do with fact and everything to do with passion.
Get over it people, buy what you like and don't be threatened by other peoples opinions.
sheesh
krouget
Android Enthusiast
Comment sections are always full of gems!
"I own both. The Moto X is a fine phone. I like it. But the 5s wins hands down on all fronts. Specs are great and all, but it's also about the user's experience on a day-to-day basis." -Patrick
Ok lurkers/posters, fess up. Which one of you wrote this?
And did you just say that "specs are great and all", when referring to the Moto X?
This phone is about as anti-spec, hooray user experience, as it can get, from an Android perspective. Specs got kicked in the nuts, with this one, lol.
VoidedSaint
Resident Ninja
If by hilarious you mean full of a bunch of idiots throwing around a bunch of nonsense then yes very funny.
I wish people could understand that 95% of the cell phone experience is personal preference which in most cases has nothing to do with fact and everything to do with passion.
Get over it people, buy what you like and don't be threatened by other peoples opinions.
sheesh
you are reading into my comment a little too much.
Comment sections are always full of gems!
"I own both. The Moto X is a fine phone. I like it. But the 5s wins hands down on all fronts. Specs are great and all, but it's also about the user's experience on a day-to-day basis." -Patrick
Ok lurkers/posters, fess up. Which one of you wrote this?
And did you just say that "specs are great and all", when referring to the Moto X?
you get it.
it is funny. it's mostly ifanboys getting "tired of their product badmouthed"
they must be shocked that every time they play with their phones they get a little motion sickness.
i played with one on the new format. It reminds me of android with the animations.
I read that study. Here is a link to the full article: Google/Motorola Mobility's Moto X Outpaces Competition with New Innovations, Says ABI Research - MarketWatch.
Sorry, guys. It's a bunch of public relations BS.
I love this quote:
First the say that the 64 bit processor is not new; then they say that it is. Huh?
Also, to compare the piece of junk fingerprint sensor in the Atrix HD 4G with the iPhone 5s is like saying that the iPhone wasn't the first phone to have a touchscreen. Yeah, maybe - but no phone had a touchscreen like the iPhone's before, and every touchscreen smartphone made since is using the same technology that Apple did.
Look, I love Android, the Moto X is a great phone, but we don't need a bullshit study like this, packed with spin worse than any political spin-doctor, to sell the phone.
If somebody published a BS Apple article like this we'd be all over it in a heartbeat. This "study" deserves the same.
Sorry, guys. It's a bunch of public relations BS.
I love this quote:
First the say that the 64 bit processor is not new; then they say that it is. Huh?
Also, to compare the piece of junk fingerprint sensor in the Atrix HD 4G with the iPhone 5s is like saying that the iPhone wasn't the first phone to have a touchscreen. Yeah, maybe - but no phone had a touchscreen like the iPhone's before, and every touchscreen smartphone made since is using the same technology that Apple did.
Look, I love Android, the Moto X is a great phone, but we don't need a bullshit study like this, packed with spin worse than any political spin-doctor, to sell the phone.
If somebody published a BS Apple article like this we'd be all over it in a heartbeat. This "study" deserves the same.
alostpacket
Over Macho Grande?
It's a pretty trolltastic study for sure.
It reminds me of when Flurry (the analytics company) used to publish reports about how iPhones have much better apps, more devs, more app usage, etc.
They publish a study like this every year or two and a lot of tech blogs used to run with it. Of course no one mentions that Flurry was caught violating user privacy in their Android products back in 2008/9 ish and that they are primarily focused on their iPhone products. (and that nearly every app dev on Android uses Google Analytics instead).
This does seem like reverse slant than I'm used to, but I bet it's more trolling for name recognition than anything. I dont think ABI has bias in that they are a PR firm or anything, but I think they might be trying to snag a bit if PR for themselves. Trolling works, unfortunately. (looks like at least 22 news sites ran with that article)
https://news.google.com/news?ncl=dLB4VJbEAqEYg_MGIGVxtLna0Q0ZM&q=ABI+research&lr=English&hl=en
/Incidentally I think some old blackberrys had fingerprint scanners. But they are right about the Atrix being one of the first to try it (though it didnt go over too well). But finger print scanners have been on netbooks and laptops for years.
It reminds me of when Flurry (the analytics company) used to publish reports about how iPhones have much better apps, more devs, more app usage, etc.
They publish a study like this every year or two and a lot of tech blogs used to run with it. Of course no one mentions that Flurry was caught violating user privacy in their Android products back in 2008/9 ish and that they are primarily focused on their iPhone products. (and that nearly every app dev on Android uses Google Analytics instead).
This does seem like reverse slant than I'm used to, but I bet it's more trolling for name recognition than anything. I dont think ABI has bias in that they are a PR firm or anything, but I think they might be trying to snag a bit if PR for themselves. Trolling works, unfortunately. (looks like at least 22 news sites ran with that article)
https://news.google.com/news?ncl=dLB4VJbEAqEYg_MGIGVxtLna0Q0ZM&q=ABI+research&lr=English&hl=en
/Incidentally I think some old blackberrys had fingerprint scanners. But they are right about the Atrix being one of the first to try it (though it didnt go over too well). But finger print scanners have been on netbooks and laptops for years.
alostpacket
Over Macho Grande?
I noticed this also, it seemed like an odd statement. I guess in some ways you could say the Moto X kinda proves that CPU isnt the bottle neck. (because it hold it's own in bechmarks due to the GPU)
Also, iPhones are not known for lacking processing power (the iphone 5 was still leading lots of benchmarks), but they sure do skimp on the RAM. Not that it matters, they are performance devices.
And really when you understand what is going on under the hood a lot of the benchmarks make no sense to run cross platform. The way Android and iOS render views to the screen is so completely different, I can't imagine how to begin to compare them.
I think my only minor " haha! point my finger" thing about iphones nowadays though is the tiny screen and resolution.
Still, maybe someday they will be allowed to install any apps they want, or set defaults.
OK GOOGLE, SEND MESSAGE TO TIM COOK SAYING LET YOUR USERS SET DEFAULT APPS BECAUSE IPHONE USERS ARE PEOPLE TOO. OK THANKS BYE.
I think that the CPU part was poorly edited.
Many here have been enjoying 64-bit and even 128-bit media processing and have never realized it.
http://www.arm.com/products/processors/technologies/neon.php
And that is NOT part of the gpu.
High end Androids don't use the gpu for media processing - and they haven't since 2011.
What's new is the extension of using 64-bit instructions for general processing - that's all.
I think that the article made the point fairly - if you look at the big picture, there's a processor upgrade.
If you look at marketing alone you'd believe that a quad core is better than a dual. Not necessarily true if the quad is a synchronous A-9 compared to a dual A-15 class.
The CPU in the X sports a Krait 300. Many are fooled that all S4 Pros are the same thing - they're not. Qualcomm said publicly, no dual core Snapdragon 600s would happen. But if you pay them, they'll make one and call it an S4 Pro.
So it's not just the GPU alone that's helping the X in the artificial benchmarks race.
More details are in the prerelease thread for those that believe that the X is an old specs phone.
In any case, however trollish or biased you all think that the article is on the CPU, my takeaway was different -
Stop looking at the marketing of parts to judge a smartphone. Look at the big picture.
Do you really care if it has an Apple A25, a Snapdragon 16000 (don't look, neither exist yet) - or a hamster in a cage driving the thing, and just care about the end result?
They gave interesting *qualitative* measurements on the battery use in different scenarios.
Processors are a game of leapfrog - and we're more at the point of looking at system optimization than megatriangles per second for one part, in my opinion, because 2010 and 2011 are OVER.
And strictly speaking, 64-bit mobile processing is in no way new - but general-purpose 64-bit mobile processing is.
And no one cared until Apple marketing hit.
Why did Apple go down the 64-bit dual core path?
They could have gotten a lot of bang for the buck by going with a quad version of last year's architecture - they could have said that was twice as good - and they'd have been mostly right in context.
But instead, they're saying that, they're saying twice as good as 32-bit.
Isn't the reason why obvious??
If you still want to believe that the article was biased, cool.
Maybe it was. I don't know.
Many here have been enjoying 64-bit and even 128-bit media processing and have never realized it.
http://www.arm.com/products/processors/technologies/neon.php
And that is NOT part of the gpu.
High end Androids don't use the gpu for media processing - and they haven't since 2011.
What's new is the extension of using 64-bit instructions for general processing - that's all.
I think that the article made the point fairly - if you look at the big picture, there's a processor upgrade.
If you look at marketing alone you'd believe that a quad core is better than a dual. Not necessarily true if the quad is a synchronous A-9 compared to a dual A-15 class.
The CPU in the X sports a Krait 300. Many are fooled that all S4 Pros are the same thing - they're not. Qualcomm said publicly, no dual core Snapdragon 600s would happen. But if you pay them, they'll make one and call it an S4 Pro.
So it's not just the GPU alone that's helping the X in the artificial benchmarks race.
More details are in the prerelease thread for those that believe that the X is an old specs phone.
In any case, however trollish or biased you all think that the article is on the CPU, my takeaway was different -
Stop looking at the marketing of parts to judge a smartphone. Look at the big picture.
Do you really care if it has an Apple A25, a Snapdragon 16000 (don't look, neither exist yet) - or a hamster in a cage driving the thing, and just care about the end result?
They gave interesting *qualitative* measurements on the battery use in different scenarios.
Processors are a game of leapfrog - and we're more at the point of looking at system optimization than megatriangles per second for one part, in my opinion, because 2010 and 2011 are OVER.
And strictly speaking, 64-bit mobile processing is in no way new - but general-purpose 64-bit mobile processing is.
And no one cared until Apple marketing hit.
Why did Apple go down the 64-bit dual core path?
They could have gotten a lot of bang for the buck by going with a quad version of last year's architecture - they could have said that was twice as good - and they'd have been mostly right in context.
But instead, they're saying that, they're saying twice as good as 32-bit.
Isn't the reason why obvious??
If you still want to believe that the article was biased, cool.
Maybe it was. I don't know.
Obtw - I was wrong.
I forgot to mention that a number of general purpose computing tasks in iOS have been 64-bit since the iPhone 4.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR
https://developer.apple.com/library...rrencyandOpenGLES/ConcurrencyandOpenGLES.html
https://www.khronos.org/assets/uplo...rcelona/Imagination-MWC-AR-Forum_Feb-2012.pdf
One of the iOS apps that has used that power for some time is an advanced photo or video app (I can dig further, we were discussing somewhere here 2 years ago).
So - nothing biased on my part when I said that many Android tasks have enjoyed 64-bit processing for some time.
Because the same has been true of iOS.
64-bit - only new for the whole OS.
Not in itself new here.
Cheers.
I forgot to mention that a number of general purpose computing tasks in iOS have been 64-bit since the iPhone 4.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR
https://developer.apple.com/library...rrencyandOpenGLES/ConcurrencyandOpenGLES.html
https://www.khronos.org/assets/uplo...rcelona/Imagination-MWC-AR-Forum_Feb-2012.pdf
One of the iOS apps that has used that power for some time is an advanced photo or video app (I can dig further, we were discussing somewhere here 2 years ago).
So - nothing biased on my part when I said that many Android tasks have enjoyed 64-bit processing for some time.
Because the same has been true of iOS.
64-bit - only new for the whole OS.
Not in itself new here.
Cheers.
alostpacket
Over Macho Grande?
OK, I'm officially a little confused, but I'm not that knowledgeable about the low-level processor stuff.
Where is the 64 bit? I looked through the links but I see bus width of the processors at 64 and 128 but am confused by the rest. Especially the concurrency link. (I know what concurrency is*, but not sure how it is applicable here).
*Boy do I know what concurrency is. You should see the awesome race conditions bugs I have created
Where is the 64 bit? I looked through the links but I see bus width of the processors at 64 and 128 but am confused by the rest. Especially the concurrency link. (I know what concurrency is*, but not sure how it is applicable here).
*Boy do I know what concurrency is. You should see the awesome race conditions bugs I have created
The GPU in the PowerVR first used in the Apple is a 64-bit processor.
Using a technique today referred to GPGPU (you can Google that) - general purpose computing with a GPU - you can create 64-bit bit apps to run in the unused cores of a multicore GPU.
And Apple's development tools provide that capacity for devs clever enough to use it.
And they have.
The technique has been around a long time. I first used it in the 80s, we wrote assembly that turned off the display of an hp workstation, and sent transform code to execute up on the bit-slice GPU. Very computationally powerful trick.
On our side of the house, remember, we typically don't constrain to just a simple CPU+GPU architecture. The Snapdragon, as well as others, have separate media cores (digital signal processors, image signal processors and more).
The Snapdragon NEON implementation is a 64-bit processor for media.
Androids have been HD since last year while Apple still isn't, except for the iPads, and our GPUs are outclassed by theirs. Yet - plug in an iPhone into an HDMI port. Do the same with an Android. Android wins, or at worst breaks even, at media playback (and the plumbing to the TV is cheaper). I've seen it.
Developers can chain registers, cut the number in half, and treat them as 128-bit registers. It's actually reminiscent of the the early Intel 80
Using a technique today referred to GPGPU (you can Google that) - general purpose computing with a GPU - you can create 64-bit bit apps to run in the unused cores of a multicore GPU.
And Apple's development tools provide that capacity for devs clever enough to use it.
And they have.
The technique has been around a long time. I first used it in the 80s, we wrote assembly that turned off the display of an hp workstation, and sent transform code to execute up on the bit-slice GPU. Very computationally powerful trick.
On our side of the house, remember, we typically don't constrain to just a simple CPU+GPU architecture. The Snapdragon, as well as others, have separate media cores (digital signal processors, image signal processors and more).
The Snapdragon NEON implementation is a 64-bit processor for media.
Androids have been HD since last year while Apple still isn't, except for the iPads, and our GPUs are outclassed by theirs. Yet - plug in an iPhone into an HDMI port. Do the same with an Android. Android wins, or at worst breaks even, at media playback (and the plumbing to the TV is cheaper). I've seen it.
Developers can chain registers, cut the number in half, and treat them as 128-bit registers. It's actually reminiscent of the the early Intel 80
So on the 64-bit in the article, they were either biased but accidentally right in the rush to attack or they were informed and unbiased on that point and it was poorly edited.
That's all up for opinion as far as I see.
That's all up for opinion as far as I see.
alostpacket
Over Macho Grande?
Thanks much Early, I think I get the gist of it now.
Makes me wonder how well they are doing for Audio DSP stuff nowadays. Seems they have reduced the latency some, but still a dearth of good apps. (This is one area Android doesn't even hold a candle to iOS, for various reasons, some technical, others not, primarily latency related).
Although I did recently see a demo of a patch-based music program a Google engineer was programming for Android. It looked a lot like the very early days of Native Intruments Reaktor
Here's the video:
DevBytes: Patchfield Audio Architecture - YouTube
/Time to return to causing NullPointerExceptions though.
Makes me wonder how well they are doing for Audio DSP stuff nowadays. Seems they have reduced the latency some, but still a dearth of good apps. (This is one area Android doesn't even hold a candle to iOS, for various reasons, some technical, others not, primarily latency related).
Although I did recently see a demo of a patch-based music program a Google engineer was programming for Android. It looked a lot like the very early days of Native Intruments Reaktor
Here's the video:
DevBytes: Patchfield Audio Architecture - YouTube
/Time to return to causing NullPointerExceptions though.
Based on the concurrent mention of the fingerprint reader in the same paragraph, I'd say it's more likely biased. Far more likely.
Great video alp!
Within a minute or two I was reminded of seeing this the other day -
http://androidforums.com/showthread.php?p=6188418
I agree with you, afaik, we're far behind the wealth of offerings for sound mixing that I've seen on iPads, so that new app really caught my eye.
On that point I don't think I'd argue.
Note the tricky wording -
It doesn't say that Motorola was THE first, but it implies it.
The quote is true only if you read it one way.
It actually contains two possible parenthetical clauses but without commas or parentheses, it's up to the reader to interpret - therefore - tricky.
In fact, if the implication is that Motorola was THE first, then the article is clearly uninformed.
The first fingerprint scanner in the mobile world appeared in 2002.
http://www.mobiletechreview.com/ipaq5450.htm
I **think** the first in a smartphone was the phone version of that PDA in 2003. I've lost the link for now so I could be wrong.
Even so, the Windows LG eXpo had it in 2009, far ahead of the 2011 Atrix.
I take your point about the Apple doing it right and the Atrix not (did the Atrix do anything right? I've not met a happy Atrix owner in person, and many unhappy).
If we're looking at only who was first in mobile, it wasn't Apple.
I think we'd have to survey more than the Atrix and the Apple to discover who's the first to do that well and reliably.
Might turn out to be Apple. I don't know.
Your source link looked like a proper reprint, but just in case, here's the abi source, krouget linked it for us in another thread.
https://www.abiresearch.com/press/googlemotorola-mobilitys-moto-x-outpaces-competiti
Within a minute or two I was reminded of seeing this the other day -
http://androidforums.com/showthread.php?p=6188418
I agree with you, afaik, we're far behind the wealth of offerings for sound mixing that I've seen on iPads, so that new app really caught my eye.
On that point I don't think I'd argue.
Note the tricky wording -
It doesn't say that Motorola was THE first, but it implies it.
The quote is true only if you read it one way.
It actually contains two possible parenthetical clauses but without commas or parentheses, it's up to the reader to interpret - therefore - tricky.
In fact, if the implication is that Motorola was THE first, then the article is clearly uninformed.
The first fingerprint scanner in the mobile world appeared in 2002.
http://www.mobiletechreview.com/ipaq5450.htm
I **think** the first in a smartphone was the phone version of that PDA in 2003. I've lost the link for now so I could be wrong.
Even so, the Windows LG eXpo had it in 2009, far ahead of the 2011 Atrix.
I take your point about the Apple doing it right and the Atrix not (did the Atrix do anything right? I've not met a happy Atrix owner in person, and many unhappy).
If we're looking at only who was first in mobile, it wasn't Apple.
I think we'd have to survey more than the Atrix and the Apple to discover who's the first to do that well and reliably.
Might turn out to be Apple. I don't know.
Your source link looked like a proper reprint, but just in case, here's the abi source, krouget linked it for us in another thread.
https://www.abiresearch.com/press/googlemotorola-mobilitys-moto-x-outpaces-competiti
alostpacket
Over Macho Grande?
Great video alp!
Within a minute or two I was reminded of seeing this the other day -
[APP][Music] n-Track Studio Multitrack DAW - Android Forums
I agree with you, afaik, we're far behind the wealth of offerings for sound mixing that I've seen on iPads, so that new app really caught my eye.
I saw that too. nTrack looks like an awesome attempt by an ametuer. It looks functional, but maybe not as polished as pro-audio software usually is. But it might just be heed needs to hire a UI designer
But I'm hoping for stuff like these: This is the only big company who has created an audio creation app on Android that I know of currently:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.imageline.FLM&hl=en
Although, FL Studio Mobile definitely has a lot of potential, imageline makes some of the best DAW (digital audio workstation) software around.
But iOS has stuff like this:
NI Tracktor
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/traktor-dj/id592052832?ls=1&mt=8
NI iMaschine
Maschine : Maschine For Ios : Imaschine | Products
Control software for Ableton
Using TouchOSC on iOS to Control Ableton Live
iMaschine producing audio recorded into Ableton Live
Making Music With iPad Apps (pt 1) - iMaschine / Korg MS-20 / Animoog / GarageBand / BeatShuffler - YouTube
I'm getting super off-topic though, May have to start an audio discussion in the Apps section
TouchDAW looks promising though, been around awhile now, seems they have really upgraded it. I hadn't checked it in awhile.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.humatic.tdaw&hl=en
Edit: one other interesting one:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.hexler.touchosc_a&hl=en
Seems Android is doing some catching up
330D
From My Cold Dead Hands
I am far from able to get into the technical aspects as you guys do... I own a motoX in Verizon trim as a Droid Maxx. The thing is the most complete and user friendly phone (is it really a phone anymore???) that I've owned. All arguments aside, it has been even better than I imagined it would be. I am not very sure how they will improve the hardware/software from the level we are at today with the newest devices from (insert manufacturer here.) I love where Android has come and where Apple has pushed it to go.
Outatime
Android Expert
In a year or two, Apple is going to introduce a model of the iPhone that sports a low power, always on CPU that's always listening for voice input. They'll probably call it something like "iListen" and it will be called a first for cell phones and a revolutionary game changer.