Arizona immigration law

[burton71]

If your superior tells you to do something that is illegal, you are within your rights to ignore them. This is the case in private business, law enforcement, and the military. This is why if you are caught "just following orders," you are still prosecuted.

Not enforcing a law isn't illegal. Every gotten pulled over for speeding and not given a ticket?

 

[3devious]

Not enforcing a law isn't illegal. Every gotten pulled over for speeding and not given a ticket?

No.

I am also saying that it is really up to the cops if they will do so or not regardless of any subversion attempted by the desk jockeys you are talking about.

 

[Fonseca]

Why should it hurt their cause? They are proud of their country. Kind of like when the Irish or Italians get together they wave their flags.

You are a fool. They are not waving their flag for the same reason as the examples you gave. Many illegal immigrants do not consider themselves American or even want anything to do with America except for work here. I do not see the issue with this law. I speak Spanish, my family is from Cuba and Spain. I probably understand this issue a bit better than you. But please, just stop.

 

[burton71]

No.

I am also saying that it is really up to the cops if they will do so or not regardless of any subversion attempted by the desk jockeys you are talking about.

Those "desk jockeys" as you call them are the ones who are in charge. They aren't going to send LEOs to invistage the "there are a bunch of mexicans hanging out at home depot" calls that the police departments have been flooded with since this became law since there are more serious issues at hand.

 

[3devious]

Those "desk jockeys" as you call them are the ones who are in charge. They aren't going to send LEOs to invistage the "there are a bunch of mexicans hanging out at home depot" calls that the police departments have been flooded with since this became law since there are more serious issues at hand.

Who would investigate a call like that? Look at the example of the Maryland law that prohibits you from even asking that I was referring to earlier. The idea that the cops are going to walk around shaking brown people down for their papers is nonsense.

 

[hakr100]

Who would investigate a call like that? Look at the example of the Maryland law that prohibits you from even asking that I was referring to earlier. The idea that the cops are going to walk around shaking brown people down for their papers is nonsense.

Except, of course, for Arizona...

 

[3devious]

Just because you are required to ask, doesn't mean that you ask every person you see. In that case, you may as well set up a table for people to come up and show their identifications before they go anywhere.

Think, people.

 

[hakr100]

Just because you are required to ask, doesn't mean that you ask every person you see. In that case, you may as well set up a table for people to come up and show their identifications before they go anywhere.

Think, people.

Perhaps we'd be better served by having the police question naturalized Indo-Aryans frequenting New York City.

 

[MJM128]

Come up with a better law that doesn't allow illegal immigrants no matter what their race, religion, nationality, gender, etc to be at a better standing than those coming to America by legal means.

I'm for this law, something has to be done about illegal immigrants. I personally don't have an issue with illegal immigrants other than they're breaking the law, and you shouldn't be able to do that. Thought that was pretty simplistic. If you don't give incentive for people to come to America legally, what's going to stop them from coming here and being able to work, and not pay taxes, while also getting education, and healthcare benefits?

 

[JeeperDon]

Think, people.

I'm not sure that would help. There are way too many people in this country with IQs equal to their shoe size.

 

[hakr100]

I'm not sure that would help. There are way too many people in this country with IQs equal to their shoe size.

 

[burton71]

Come up with a better law that doesn't allow illegal immigrants no matter what their race, religion, nationality, gender, etc to be at a better standing than those coming to America by legal means.

I'm for this law, something has to be done about illegal immigrants. I personally don't have an issue with illegal immigrants other than they're breaking the law, and you shouldn't be able to do that. Thought that was pretty simplistic. If you don't give incentive for people to come to America legally, what's going to stop them from coming here and being able to work, and not pay taxes, while also getting education, and healthcare benefits?

Easy, you go after the employers that are hiring illegals and make the pealties much worse and actually enforce it. They are just as much to blame for the problem as the people illegally here. It can be done without trampling on the rights of citizens and there is nothing to do with race, religion, etc...

 

[burton71]

Who would investigate a call like that? Look at the example of the Maryland law that prohibits you from even asking that I was referring to earlier. The idea that the cops are going to walk around shaking brown people down for their papers is nonsense.

Except the law allows them to do just that if they have reasonable suspicion. So what is reasonable suspision for being here illegally?

 

[Rota]

Easy, you go after the employers that are hiring illegals and make the pealties much worse and actually enforce it. They are just as much to blame for the problem as the people illegally here. It can be done without trampling on the rights of citizens and there is nothing to do with race, religion, etc...

Arizona already enacted a law to do just that a few years back. It's been decently effective, but this hopefully will do better.

 

[hakr100]

Easy, you go after the employers that are hiring illegals and make the pealties much worse and actually enforce it. They are just as much to blame for the problem as the people illegally here. It can be done without trampling on the rights of citizens and there is nothing to do with race, religion, etc...

There is a real reluctance to ramp up worksite inspections and penalties for employers. Now, if you made the CEO and board members criminally liable if any of their companies hired illegals, and the law was enforced, that might make a diff.

First, though, you have to develop and implement some sort of nearly impossible to fake ID card, and most Americans would balk at that. I sure as hell do not want a cop anywhere in this country arbitrarily saying to me, "Papers, please..."

Oh...and the borders have to be closed. That isn't going to happen, either.

 

[IOWA]

I'm all for borders being closed. With all the crazies and drug dealers out there, more focus on crazies, we need it. One or two people can do a lot of damage. As much as people hate the usa, we need giaganto electrified fences across the borders. Sad it has come to this, really, but. Yeah...

 

[ballisticn8]

I am from AZ and most of the time I lurk here but some of the idiocy that is going around both in this state and the rest of the country needs to be called out. This law doesn't promote racial profiling, nobody is getting "shaken down" due to skin color. Anyone who thinks that this is what this new law permits is stupid and needs to educate themselves instead of letting someone else educate you based on whatever misguided info they have regurgitated from another source.

www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

So are all the supporters of this law going to be so supportive when the police start asking American citizens for proof that they are American citizens? Believe me, I get that illegal is illegal, but I'm not sure that questioning Americans about their citizenship is the way to go about solving the problem.

This is actually going to be quite a problem, and I live in AZ and have read the bill instead of just drinking up whatever media personality decides to spew because they've read highlights of the bill taken out of context.

In AZ you have to provide proof of citizenship or a right to be in the country in order to get a state ID. That right there proves you are in the country legally. Some states don't have those standards. Anyone from anywhere that can just prove who they are can get an ID in other states. It would be I think a great benefit if every state required that in order to get a state ID you have to prove you are here in the country legally. Not asking too much is it? If you are here legally then you can get ID, if not, oh well, you shouldn't have committed a FEDERAL CRIME then huh?

The law you so admire will be tossed out by the Supremes, even the current Supremes, on any of several grounds. Meanwhile, it'll be interesting to see what sort of "hit" the Arizona economy takes because of this racially motivated law.

Highly doubtful, see:

http:web.mac.com/waltermoore/walter...lice_Can_Enforce_Federal_Immigration_Law.html

If you don't mind a couple key excerpts:

In 1983, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit -- you read that right, the Ninth Circuit -- concluded, in Gonzales v. City of Peoria, 722 F.2d 468, that,

 

[IOWA]

Just wanted to add.. in illinois, you need a lot of documentation inlduding ss card, birth ert., mail, and several other things in order to get an id here. You must also always have an id here.

 

[Trons4u]

Yes the Arizona economy will take a hit. Yes the law will be challenged in many courts. Yes I live in Arizona and support the bill. Why, for two main reasons. First this will cause the illegals in Arizona to start moving in large numbers to other close by states and that state's economy will begin to go in the tank providing services for the people that they haven't contributed to the tax base to pay for.

I saw a segment on the news the other night that blew my mind. A couple living in AZ illegally for 15yrs and have 10 kids. They were getting ready to move to Colorado because of the law. I agree that things need to change and I'm for getting the illegals out of the country. My question on this news story. 1. How did the news find them so quickly and the INS/ICE didn't. 2. Did they have health insurance to pay for all those kids? Also they've been here 15yrs and they still don't speak English...wtf. Colorado said something about boycotting AZ...Well looks like you're next to have a drain on your state, Enjoy.

 

[ballisticn8]

INS/ICE doesnt find them because they don't care to find them. They aren't funded to find them.

This is one of my main problems with illegals living in this state. There are so many of these "interviews" that show a family of illegals that are not paying for anything that they abuse and use from the state. They don't pay taxes for healthcare, yet I sat in the ER a month ago for 4 hours with a sick child in a waiting room full of people that when they were being questioned by the translator the responses were "no they don't have any identification", "no they don't have a social security number', "no they don't have medical insurance", and "no they dont have a way to pay for services".

They don't pay taxes that help our schools yet you see stories of families with 3-8 kids or more that have children enrolled in schools. Maybe I'm an asshole but those children are taking time and attention that could be given to further benefit my children, the ones that are there legally, the ones that my money is being taken for to help pay for the school and the education provided.

People think this law is about illegal immigrants and it's not. It's about the people here legally and our money and our resources being so abused and spread out that we don't want to take it anymore. We are refusing to support and harbor those guilty of commiting federal crimes. Nobody is stating that they are more or less of a person but if they want to be here legally there are 1.1 million people that managed to make that journey last year and they contribute.

 

[stevenw00]

Thank you ballisticn8! You just saved me a ton of time. Great post!!!

 

[GDB63]

The law you so admire will be tossed out by the Supremes, even the current Supremes, on any of several grounds. Meanwhile, it'll be interesting to see what sort of "hit" the Arizona economy takes because of this racially motivated law.

I very seriously doubt the law will be thrown out because of racial issues. The law has nothing to do with race. It is about a persons legal staus in the U.S. If it can be tossed on racial grounds, it will be interesting to see the effects that has on afirmative action.

 

[GDB63]

ID and citizenship papers are two different things. American citizens have never had to carry any sort of proof of citizenship, ever. Now they are, at least in AZ. To be honest, I find it rather sad that so many Americans are so willing to give up their basic rights.

Handdog,

You are 100% wrong. You do not have to carry proof of citizenship in AZ, you are not even required to cary ID unless operating a motor vehicle. You are requred to verbally identify yourself if you are stopped for a violation or suspect in a crime, then and only then. An officer can not now and has never been able to ask for ID just because he thinks you might be illegal.

 

[GDB63]

Sorry, bub, but there's no federal law that requires me to have on my person while walking down the street ID acceptable to the Arizona gestapo. Arizona is intruding into areas that are the purview of the federal government. Now, since I am white, I wouldn't be able to claim skin color profiling, and it isn't likely I'd be stopped...but someone with a darker complexion could and should claim racial profiling.

I see a lot of test cases coming your way...hundreds, if not thousands of them.

You have no clue! AZ law does not require you to carry an ID while walking down the street. Never has, and this bill will not change that.

 

[Trons4u]

If they are here illegally, then it is the fault of the U.S. government for not defending our national borders.

How much defending do they need. They have a huge fence, border patrol, camera's, seismic equipment. Do we need to start shooting on site, electrify the fence, put land mines.
You need to start thinking past your little life bubble that you live in and join the real world. I live in Idaho and we have a large population of Hispanics, Bosnians and I would welcome a law like this. If you and the other people that think we don't have a problem or think it not my problem it's the US Gov't problem think about this. There are roughly 10.8million illegal/undocumented (which ever makes you feel better), how many kids did they have that is taking away from our kids quality of learning, increasing the costs to health care and state budgets. Another little known fact is that America accepts a large number of refugees every year from different countries that will need jobs when they get here....guess who is taking those jobs?

If you/we don't start making changes and start enforcing laws when will you. Do you have a better solution. Call it racial profiling or whatever you want, I didn't spend 21yrs in the military defending this country for illegals, I did it for you the AMERICAN people to support and defend the Constitution. Ok I'll get off my soapbox....now back to the Droid info I was looking for