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poor things can't have an intimate relationship with another number on their screen?
huh
Android Expert
M
Member243850
Guest
Yes.
It is.
You don't believe it.
You don't have to believe it.
Just like you don't have to believe that the French word for yes is oui.
But that doesn't make you right.
As long as you're not open to any new ideas here, you're not going to change your mind.
You're not following the proofs as presented.
You're substituting counter points to make your case.
That's called voting.
It's not up to a vote.
There is no need to insult me buddy!
Once again where did I say that "I am not open to new ideas"?
Where did I say this?
No need for insults!
I am not narrow minded or refusing to accept something like it seems you really assume.
Where did I say I am not open to new ideas????
Where did I say this?
It is just that it does not make logical sense to me and just because I don't agree with something or might not see something does not mean I am not open to new ideas.
Doesn't mean I am not open to new ideas!
And it most certainly does not mean I will never change my mind!
Not 1 bit my friend.
If you explain it to me in a way that I can understand or something then by all means I will be very grateful and accept 500% and hell ja I will change my mind.
I will be very grateful that I learned something new today.
I would be very grateful but it is just something I disagree with.
It does not make any sense to me that is all.
And no, I don't believe I am making "counter points" because I showed it earlier why that whole:
x = 0.9999... (going into the distance)
Does not make any sense.
I showed it earlier.
I actually proved that you will go right back to where you started.
So no wrong what you said about me that is not true at all!
Not true buddy!
M
Member243850
Guest
Anywayz!
I agree to disagree!
Maybe some day some one will explain it to me in some kind of way but these ways don't make sense to me.
Carry on.
I agree to disagree!
Maybe some day some one will explain it to me in some kind of way but these ways don't make sense to me.
Carry on.
XplosiV
Master X is Watching You
Anywayz!
I agree to disagree!
Maybe some day some one will explain it to me in some kind of way but these ways don't make sense to me.
Carry on.
Math is flawed and because 0.9999... Cant be one, the mathematicians decided it can be close enough that you can ASSUME it to be one, when in fact it will always be 0.0001 off actually being 1
M
Member243850
Guest
Math is flawed and because 0.9999... Cant be one, the mathematicians decided it can be close enough that you can ASSUME it to be one, when in fact it will always be 0.0001 off actually being 1
This is how I see it too.
I think we see a like here.
Everyone here says that:
1/3 = 0.333...
True.
But what everyone does not seem to be aware of is that you are actually getting closer to 1 as many claim here.
According to this logic... 1/3 = 0.333... = 1
Because many here say that when it repeats or 0.333... repeats it is getting closer to 1.
That is sort of true but there is no way you will get to 1.
You get closer but that does not mean you are there.
You are not at 1.
It is actually very interesting to me and I think about it a lot at times.
It is very interesting because with the same logic many used before it does not mkae any sense to me because 0.333... repeating does get closerto 1 but there is no way in hell you are going to get there ever.
That sounds crazy to me.
You are getting closer but that does not mean you will ever get there.
Maybe I have no idea what I am talking about, or maybe I am really lost here somehow.
But it does not make sense to me.
And hell no I am very open to new ideas but just because I might not understand something (or I might be the one that actually understands at the end of the day) does not mean I am not open to new ideas.
If you can explain it to me then I will be very grateful and lucky to have you share your wisdom and / or understanding.
But according to the same logic that many or like 90% of you dudes here or whatever you can say that 1/3 = 0.333... = 1
You are getting closer but I don't see how that will get to 1? :confused
Anyway that is at least that is how I see it!
And many people think I am some kind of "genius" or something but I feel very stupid actually!
Or maybe it is "too rainy" for me to see?
Either way I can't see how that all makes sense but maybe some day I might!
Either way it is still something that is very interesting to me.
I like maths.
At no time did I mean to be insulting. If I was, I apologize.
Some quantities are represented by decimal equivalents.
0.333... is one such value.
When you see that, it's 1/3, every time, without exception.
There's no other way to express 1/3 as decimal value.
The mechanics of arithmetic say that the number is infinite - but it's not a fuzzy or almost value.
It's 1/3.
Just bent by the mechanics of carrying out the long division.
I think we agree on that.
And we have a name when that happens - decimal equivalent.
A third of something is not an infinity.
Due to mechanical error, expressing 1/3 in decimal looks like an infinity.
Looks like, but you know a third isn't infinite.
Whenever you see a number ending with an infinite string of 9s at the end, that's the result of a mechanical difficulty.
There's no other way to get an infinite string of 9s at the end of any number.
Regardless of the number or the cause, a string of endless 9s at the end tells you that a mechanical difficulty took place getting to an answer.
It's an error.
Whenever you see it, you can be sure with confidence that you are allowed to correct the error by rounding to next highest absolute value.
Because we know that 0.333... means one thing , and only one thing - it's 1/3 - then I should get 1 whenever I multiply by 3.
Due to mechanical error, it comes out as 0.999...
We know it's a mechanical error, because whether we call it 1/3 or 0.333... or the French expression for a third, if you get 3 of them together, you must get 1 as the result.
You can't multiply 1/3 by 3 and get 0.999... - you get 1.
So when you write down 1/3 a different way and multiply it 3 and get 0.999... then you just proved mechanical error in math exists.
And you override the error with your knowledge that the answer must be 1.
And because of that, now we have a new decimal equivalent - 0.999... is 1.
And 0.0999... is really 0.1.
And 0.00999... is really 0.01.
0.999... isn't almost 1.
It's exactly 1 with the math equivalent of a spelling error.
Does that help?
Some quantities are represented by decimal equivalents.
0.333... is one such value.
When you see that, it's 1/3, every time, without exception.
There's no other way to express 1/3 as decimal value.
The mechanics of arithmetic say that the number is infinite - but it's not a fuzzy or almost value.
It's 1/3.
Just bent by the mechanics of carrying out the long division.
I think we agree on that.
And we have a name when that happens - decimal equivalent.
A third of something is not an infinity.
Due to mechanical error, expressing 1/3 in decimal looks like an infinity.
Looks like, but you know a third isn't infinite.
Whenever you see a number ending with an infinite string of 9s at the end, that's the result of a mechanical difficulty.
There's no other way to get an infinite string of 9s at the end of any number.
Regardless of the number or the cause, a string of endless 9s at the end tells you that a mechanical difficulty took place getting to an answer.
It's an error.
Whenever you see it, you can be sure with confidence that you are allowed to correct the error by rounding to next highest absolute value.
Because we know that 0.333... means one thing , and only one thing - it's 1/3 - then I should get 1 whenever I multiply by 3.
Due to mechanical error, it comes out as 0.999...
We know it's a mechanical error, because whether we call it 1/3 or 0.333... or the French expression for a third, if you get 3 of them together, you must get 1 as the result.
You can't multiply 1/3 by 3 and get 0.999... - you get 1.
So when you write down 1/3 a different way and multiply it 3 and get 0.999... then you just proved mechanical error in math exists.
And you override the error with your knowledge that the answer must be 1.
And because of that, now we have a new decimal equivalent - 0.999... is 1.
And 0.0999... is really 0.1.
And 0.00999... is really 0.01.
0.999... isn't almost 1.
It's exactly 1 with the math equivalent of a spelling error.
Does that help?
There are literally an infinite number of ways to perform a calculation that results in 0.999...
Each and every one of them contains the same exact mechanical error.
You don't need to add anything to 0.999... to get to 1.
You actually need to subtract something.
Take 0.999... subtract the mechanical error and you get 1.
There's no way to get 0.999... without the mechanical error. None. Zip. Nada.
That's the deal.
Each and every one of them contains the same exact mechanical error.
You don't need to add anything to 0.999... to get to 1.
You actually need to subtract something.
Take 0.999... subtract the mechanical error and you get 1.
There's no way to get 0.999... without the mechanical error. None. Zip. Nada.
That's the deal.
M
Member243850
Guest
Well maybe I can show what I am trying to say in a different way!
No need to apologize dude we always cool!
For some strange reason people jump to conclusions a lot of the time with me but it is all good!
I have been trying to say it is hard (but maybe not impossible because rules can be overthrown today or tomorrow by new ways of thinking.) to show in decimal notation.
Let me try and explain so here goes!
If you say 1/3 = 0 .333...
What many many many people do not understand (maybe just me?) is that when you go off into infinity with a 1/3 or a 1/9 or whatever and you start to write it down in decimal notation to try and make it easier to understand and you start to try and prove your point with decimals this is when things get messy.
If you say 1/3 = 0.333...
Many people do not realise that you are actually adding on the decimal side with out doing it to the other side...
I am struggling to explain this and I have been told many times I need to work on how I explain things.
I understand but struggle to communicate how to some one else.
If you have 1/3 = 0.333333
If you go further on the decimal point side (right side of equation) people maybe don't realise (I maybe I don't?P ) is that you have actually added something on the right side.
1/3 * 3 = 1
I will never disagree with this ever. I totally agree!
Unless of course some super legend comes around and suddenly changes the rules from his / her extreme brilliance which is always possible.
But when you start to go off into "infinity" (and no before you jump the gun and say I don't believe in counting on forever, wrong because I totally do! but counting is different to adding another decimal point on 1 side of the equation and not the other) i totally agree you can count forever but not when you have an equation or it has an "=" sign involved.
Because it is a scale and must beb balanced at all times.
This is why I say it is very hard to try and demonstrate a third with decimal notation...
If you have
1/3 = 0.33333...
People do not realise you have added a tiny little bit to the right side and no 1 is actually aware of it.
You don't even realise it but this is what s actually happening!
I hope I explained myself clearly because this is something I seriously struggle with and let me know if said it in a silly way!
You actually have added 0.0000000000000003 or however far down the line you go to thedecmial side and not the fraction side!
I hope I explained it clearly?
So I still can't understand how
1 = 0.999...
Because you are actually adding to the 1 side and not the other but people don't realise it.
No need to apologize dude we always cool!
For some strange reason people jump to conclusions a lot of the time with me but it is all good!
I have been trying to say it is hard (but maybe not impossible because rules can be overthrown today or tomorrow by new ways of thinking.
) to show in decimal notation. Let me try and explain so here goes!
If you say 1/3 = 0 .333...
What many many many people do not understand (maybe just me?
) is that when you go off into infinity with a 1/3 or a 1/9 or whatever and you start to write it down in decimal notation to try and make it easier to understand and you start to try and prove your point with decimals this is when things get messy.If you say 1/3 = 0.333...
Many people do not realise that you are actually adding on the decimal side with out doing it to the other side...
I am struggling to explain this and I have been told many times I need to work on how I explain things.
I understand but struggle to communicate how to some one else.
If you have 1/3 = 0.333333
If you go further on the decimal point side (right side of equation) people maybe don't realise (I maybe I don't?
P ) is that you have actually added something on the right side.1/3 * 3 = 1
I will never disagree with this ever.
I totally agree! Unless of course some super legend comes around and suddenly changes the rules from his / her extreme brilliance which is always possible.
But when you start to go off into "infinity" (and no before you jump the gun and say I don't believe in counting on forever, wrong because I totally do!
but counting is different to adding another decimal point on 1 side of the equation and not the other) i totally agree you can count forever but not when you have an equation or it has an "=" sign involved.Because it is a scale and must beb balanced at all times.
This is why I say it is very hard to try and demonstrate a third with decimal notation...
If you have
1/3 = 0.33333...
People do not realise you have added a tiny little bit to the right side and no 1 is actually aware of it.
You don't even realise it but this is what s actually happening!
I hope I explained myself clearly because this is something I seriously struggle with and let me know if said it in a silly way!
You actually have added 0.0000000000000003 or however far down the line you go to thedecmial side and not the fraction side!
I hope I explained it clearly?
So I still can't understand how
1 = 0.999...
Because you are actually adding to the 1 side and not the other but people don't realise it.
Math is flawed and because 0.9999... Cant be one, the mathematicians decided it can be close enough that you can ASSUME it to be one, when in fact it will always be 0.0001 off actually being 1
That's not accurate.
No assumption is required.
Just an understanding of what mechanical errors exist in math.
0.999... is not close to 1.
It's really 1.
jhawkkw
Chinchillin'
Math is flawed and because 0.9999... Cant be one, the mathematicians decided it can be close enough that you can ASSUME it to be one, when in fact it will always be 0.0001 off actually being 1
I am a mathematician, and I don't assume it to be true. I know it to be true because it's proved to be true and not just in one capacity. In fact, mathematics is all based on proofs. Anyone who hasn't taken at least 3rd year or higher college mathematics would probably never experience this though. True mathematicians base all their work on proofs, Scientists base their answers on calculations that may or may not be 100% due to rounding. Even dipping into statistical mathematics courses with hypothesis testing. Your start off with a hypothesis and concoct an alternate hypothesis. If your test turns out failing to reject the original hypothesis, you don't say it's true. You actually say that you can't prove it's not true. Grammatically it's the same, but semantically it's different. It always originates back to have proof.
M
Member243850
Guest
What is this so called "true mathematician" stuff you keep talking about?
What is your so called definition of "true" and what is not?
Just because some one has not had the "formal" education or "traditional" teachings does not mean they don't know what they are talking about and cannot question things.
I read a lot of your stuff previously and this one "proof" you brought up does not give you 1:
x = 0.999... (There is actually a serious problem here because you keep adding to the right hand decimal sided one and not the other and you have now broken a vital "law" that says they must be both 500% equal at all times).
10x = 9.999...
10x - x = 9.999... - 0.999..
(but here for arguments sake to make things simpler we are going to only go up to the 7th decimal place)
9x = 9.999999 - 0 .9999999
This now equals:
9x = 8.9999991
Now we just divide both sides by 9
x = 0.9999999
We ended up exactly where we started.
And why can't people (or maybe it is only me that does not understand but I don't see why not?
) see that you are adding to the one side and not the other.And even if you want to break that law of keeping balance between both equal signs and just start adding to this number:
0.999...
Even if you add:
0.000000000000000000009
and then add again:
0.00000000000000000000000000000009
You will still never get to 1.
Ja sure I agree with you all that you get "closer" but that is equal to...
Closer and equal to are very different things.
You will have to add something like:
0.00000000000000000000001
Then yes you will get to 1.
But not if you just keep adding
0.000000000000000000000000000000009
or something to the end.
You will never get to 1.
You get closer but never get there.
M
Member243850
Guest
Math is flawed and because 0.9999... Cant be one, the mathematicians decided it can be close enough that you can ASSUME it to be one, when in fact it will always be 0.0001 off actually being 1
Yes!
True!
I agree!
Nothing is "perfect".
jhawkkw
Chinchillin'
What is this so called "true mathematician" stuff you keep talking about?
What is your so called definition of "true" and what is not?
Just because some one has not had the "formal" education or "traditional" teachings does not mean they don't know what they are talking about and cannot question things.
I read a lot of your stuff previously and this one "proof" you brought up does not give you 1:
x = 0.999... (There is actually a serious problem here because you keep adding to the right hand decimal sided one and not the other and you have now broken a vital "law" that says they must be both 500% equal at all times).
10x = 9.999...
10x - x = 9.999... - 0.999..
(but here for arguments sake to make things simpler we are going to only go up to the 7th decimal place)
9x = 9.999999 - 0 .9999999
This now equals:
9x = 8.9999991
Now we just divide both sides by 9
x = 0.9999999
We ended up exactly where we started.
And why can't people (or maybe it is only me that does not understand but I don't see why not?
And even if you want to break that law of keeping balance between both equal signs and just start adding to this number:
0.999...
Even if you add:
0.000000000000000000009
and then add again:
0.00000000000000000000000000000009
You will still never get to 1.
Ja sure I agree with you all that you get "closer" but that is equal to...
Closer and equal to are very different things.
You will have to add something like:
0.00000000000000000000001
Then yes you will get to 1.
But not if you just keep adding
0.000000000000000000000000000000009
or something to the end.
You will never get to 1.
You get closer but never get there.
A true mathematician is someone who knows and understands theoretical mathematics. A person generally doesn't learn these things without completing at least a Bachelor's degree in mathematics. We don't take a dentist and call him a heart surgeon, so why does some one who doesn't have formal education in mathematics get to call themselves a mathematician
As for questioning things, anyone can question an idea, but it doesn't necessarily mean you'll understand the answer or reason behind it.The continuing theme with the argument with the x=.9999 getting back to the same place is that you are assuming the number is not infinite in length when you do the subtraction. I will agree with you 100% that if the decimal is finite in length that it is clearly not 1 as you have shown by getting back to the original number.
The argument though is that the number IS infinite in length. One basic question you should ask yourself is do you think that 10 * infinity = infinity. If you don't, then it's likely that you won't agree with the algebraic or arithmetic proof. However I see that not one person who denies it to be true has found a hole in the calculus or analysis proof. If you're trying to prove it's false, you have to disprove those as well. Chances are, no one will be able to disprove the analysis proof because to do so would require an understanding of analysis which requires theoretical mathematics. And that would make you a mathematician, but all mathematicians agree that it's true.
Yes!
True!
I agree!
Nothing is "perfect".
Math is flawed, but that's not the answer because it's not flawed in that way.
Neither is the following the answer and I'll explain why -
Well maybe I can show what I am trying to say in a different way!
No need to apologize dude we always cool!
For some strange reason people jump to conclusions a lot of the time with me but it is all good!
I have been trying to say it is hard (but maybe not impossible because rules can be overthrown today or tomorrow by new ways of thinking.
Let me try and explain so here goes!
If you say 1/3 = 0 .333...
What many many many people do not understand (maybe just me?
If you say 1/3 = 0.333...
Many people do not realise that you are actually adding on the decimal side with out doing it to the other side...
I am struggling to explain this and I have been told many times I need to work on how I explain things.
I understand but struggle to communicate how to some one else.
If you have 1/3 = 0.333333
If you go further on the decimal point side (right side of equation) people maybe don't realise (I maybe I don't?
1/3 * 3 = 1
I will never disagree with this ever.
Unless of course some super legend comes around and suddenly changes the rules from his / her extreme brilliance which is always possible.
But when you start to go off into "infinity" (and no before you jump the gun and say I don't believe in counting on forever, wrong because I totally do!
Because it is a scale and must beb balanced at all times.
This is why I say it is very hard to try and demonstrate a third with decimal notation...
If you have
1/3 = 0.33333...
People do not realise you have added a tiny little bit to the right side and no 1 is actually aware of it.
You don't even realise it but this is what s actually happening!
I hope I explained myself clearly because this is something I seriously struggle with and let me know if said it in a silly way!
You actually have added 0.0000000000000003 or however far down the line you go to thedecmial side and not the fraction side!
I hope I explained it clearly?
So I still can't understand how
1 = 0.999...
Because you are actually adding to the 1 side and not the other but people don't realise it.
Here's where you are wrong -
"If you say 1/3 = 0.333...
Many people do not realise that you are actually adding on the decimal side with out doing it to the other side..."
The = sign is a balancing scale, that is correct.
In the equation above, nothing is unbalanced.
You have to go out to infinity on the right side.
Have to.
"If you have 1/3 = 0.333333
If you go further on the decimal point side (right side of equation) people maybe don't realise (I maybe I don't?
P ) is that you have actually added something on the right side."No.
1/3 ≠ 0.333333
You have personally taken a lot of important 3s from the right side.
0.333333 is NOT 1/3.
It is an approximation of it.
That mistake is probably keeping you from understanding.
Please go back and read my last 3 posts.
Math is not perfect, but not in the sense you believe.
We have not added 3s or 9s.
You have taken some away.
jhawkkw
Chinchillin'
Yes!
True!
I agree!
Nothing is "perfect".
Not true, 300 is a perfect game in 10 pin bowling.
Back in November, a group at XDA started using this as a cross-forum trolling game.
If you see posts come and go here, or wonder why the OP is banned, it's because pathetic losers have no place here.
If you see posts come and go here, or wonder why the OP is banned, it's because pathetic losers have no place here.
if a surgeon tells me that I am sick with a medical issue. i aint going to argue with him.
if a certified accountant tells me.. i am doing my taxes wrong.. i aint going to argue.
if a mechanic tells me that my car needs new breaks, i aint going to argue.
if a cook says that meat is bad.. i aint going to argue.
why are you argueing here? are you a math major/expert???
no.. i am NOT a math major/expert... but others here are.
i have taken college engineer match courses...etc..
1/3 = .333... (this is basic jr high math; do this division the old/long way and you will get the same answer! 1 divided by 3 and see what you get)
.333... * 3 = .999...
1/3 * 3 = 1
therefore .999... = 1
that is like: A = B; B = C; therefore C = A
if a certified accountant tells me.. i am doing my taxes wrong.. i aint going to argue.
if a mechanic tells me that my car needs new breaks, i aint going to argue.
if a cook says that meat is bad.. i aint going to argue.
why are you argueing here? are you a math major/expert???
no.. i am NOT a math major/expert... but others here are.
i have taken college engineer match courses...etc..
1/3 = .333... (this is basic jr high math; do this division the old/long way and you will get the same answer! 1 divided by 3 and see what you get)
.333... * 3 = .999...
1/3 * 3 = 1
therefore .999... = 1
that is like: A = B; B = C; therefore C = A
Please notice post counts and don't feed the trolls.
My intention is for this post to be my final post in this thread.
1. I think this has to be on the 'agree to disagree' list.
2. I accept and comprehend the concept of infinity.
3. Because of 2, .999....9 will never = 1
4. Because of 3, and because I accept that .333....3 * 3 = .999....9, .333....3 * 3 will never equal 1
5. Because of 4, using 1/3 * 3 and .333....3 * 3, is a nonsense. (from my point of view, which is based on 2).
On the other hand, if someone can tell me when/where our galaxy ends and the next one begins, I might, just might, take another look at 2.
1. I think this has to be on the 'agree to disagree' list.
2. I accept and comprehend the concept of infinity.
3. Because of 2, .999....9 will never = 1
4. Because of 3, and because I accept that .333....3 * 3 = .999....9, .333....3 * 3 will never equal 1
5. Because of 4, using 1/3 * 3 and .333....3 * 3, is a nonsense. (from my point of view, which is based on 2).
On the other hand, if someone can tell me when/where our galaxy ends and the next one begins, I might, just might, take another look at 2.
Rxpert83
Dr. Feelgood
Just walk through it with me
http://www.calculator.net/scientific-calculator.html
Go there.
Divide 1 by 3, giving you the decimal value of exactly one third
Multiply that result (0.333...) times 3.
Your answer is 1.
0.333...*3 can also be written 0.999...
Therefore
0.9999...=1
http://www.calculator.net/scientific-calculator.html
Go there.
Divide 1 by 3, giving you the decimal value of exactly one third
Multiply that result (0.333...) times 3.
Your answer is 1.
0.333...*3 can also be written 0.999...
Therefore
0.9999...=1
jhawkkw
Chinchillin'
My intention is for this post to be my final post in this thread.
1. I think this has to be on the 'agree to disagree' list.
2. I accept and comprehend the concept of infinity.
3. Because of 2, .999....9 will never = 1
4. Because of 3, and because I accept that .333....3 * 3 = .999....9, .333....3 * 3 will never equal 1
5. Because of 4, using 1/3 * 3 and .333....3 * 3, is a nonsense. (from my point of view, which is based on 2).
On the other hand, if someone can tell me when/where our galaxy ends and the next one begins, I might, just might, take another look at 2.
I agree that .999....9 will never equal 1. But if you do understand the concept of infinity, then why are you comparing a finite number to 1 as opposed to an infinite number like the argument is about?
Lordvincent 90
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
Just found this:
Hmmmmmmmmm...
Hmmmmmmmmm...