AI Spam Threads & Paid Memberships

[Rob]

I'm excited about the power of AI tools like ChatGPT, OpenAI, and Midjourney, but equally concerned about how that power will be used in the wrong hands. At the most basic level, scammers, spammers, and fraudsters are already using it to create bots that are nearly indistinguishable from humans.

On Android Forums, I've noticed it more and more on threads like this (note @ocnbrze quoting "Fatima Ansari") where AI "members" build up a message history that they then exploit with spam links. As the AI bots get smarter, moderating will become harder, and the schemes more nefarious. Even more importantly, the proliferation of AI bots threatens the entire purpose of our community: to foster authentic and meaningful conversations.

As we look to expand our brand with a relaunch, many things will soon change. Among them, I'm strongly considering removing or restricting the "free membership" option. Here's how it would work:

• All current members grandfathered into 100% Free Accounts for life.
• All current VIP grandfathered into 100% Free VIP for life.
• Future members required to pay a minimal monthly fee (ex: $2/month)

This would reward our loyal members, eliminate 99.9% of spam, and create a new revenue stream that could be reinvested into the site. We would welcome back existing members to "claim" their account via email blast that shares all the big changes.

I'm sharing this well in advance to gauge interest and hear your opinions: it's just an idea and not final. We could also try maintaining a free area but I think this is more likely to cause confusion and chaos than a small simple monthly fee.

Although this would likely have a negative impact in the short-term, I think it may prove wise in the long haul.

I'm tentatively planning to "flip the switch" on Black Friday (Nov 24th) but we would continue allowing new free memberships through January 1st, 2024 (with the paid model going into effect on January 2nd, 2024).

 

[AugieTN]

Good idea!

 

[startac4]

I've been on the forum for a long time but can't logon anymore. No "logon option" on screen. I had to try replying in a forum, which then asked if I was a member and let me logon. No logon option on home screen .

 

[ocnbrze]

i like the membership fee idea......of course i will be grandfathered in. i think if i was new, i would hesitate to join though.

 

[treb1797]

You will kill this site from a growth standpoint if you have to "pay to play." Just being honest.

 

[Unforgiven]

I've been on the forum for a long time but can't logon anymore. No "logon option" on screen. I had to try replying in a forum, which then asked if I was a member and let me logon. No logon option on home screen .

This is a known problem in the transition to the new theme. See here: cannot log in

 

[Unforgiven]

@Rob, aren't there tools that parse language to determine if they are AI generated? Could be used like a spam filter.

 

[olbriar]

Paying to be apart of the community would likely have a negative effect. However, moderation of AI posts and threads will be a nightmare. It's all a slippery slope moving forward. I'm with @Unforgiven in hopes there is some sort of filter to eliminate or at least somewhat manage posts that are AI generated. Often they are informative but most all are not well received and certainly open the door for post count building for future spam.

 

[Windroid]

AI "members" build up a message history that they then exploit with spam links.

That explains it. That would explain why we have bots plagiarizing ChatGPT.

On a related note: ChatGPT is intelligent and insightful. She could be one of the most valuable members of this form, if done right! We could have our own bot, feeding a thread's original post into ChatGPT, and then posting her reply. Our bot would make it clear that the message is from ChatGPT, and not a human user.

 

[kate]

Paying to be apart of the community would likely have a negative effect.

I would have to agree, it will be tough to convince new members to pay a fee to join.

Is there a Captcha that A.I. can't solve? Or other methods that will allow humans to sign up while catching bots?

 

[AugieTN]

I thought it would hurt more than help at first, but then I thought people pay a dollar to lookup a phone number on the net. Then I thought it was a good idea to try. An explanation posted as to why there's a charge would help people understand the need for a charge

It's something to try, if it hurts more than it helps it could be easily changed

Just my two cents.

 

[Rob]

You will kill this site from a growth standpoint if you have to "pay to play." Just being honest.

I don't disagree. Gauging feedback before making decisions. I wouldn't mind foregoing growth for quality if that's the tradeoff, but also don't want to sacrifice growth if quality will deteriorate without new members.

Exploring all ideas and happy to hear them. Tools like those mentioned by @Unforgiven and @kate are of interest, but I'd also love to completely avoid the cat and mouse game with AI Spammers.

ChatGPT is intelligent and insightful. She could be one of the most valuable members of this form, if done right! We could have our own bot, feeding a thread's original post into ChatGPT, and then posting her reply. Our bot would make it clear that the message is from ChatGPT, and not a human user.

Absolutely love it! What would you name the bot?

I've been thinking along the same lines. There are a couple addons with GPT features built-in, but I'm wary about support and updates, so don't want to enable them. Would be great if we can get something custom-built, but not sure the outlook there, either.

people pay a dollar to lookup a phone number on the net

This is part of my thinking, too.

Often times, people arrive at AF to solve a specific problem. If they can throw $2 at it and get legitimate feedback, I think we may be surprised at how many people are happy to invest in something that's solving their problems, entertaining them, or both.

We're at a point where getting creative and experimenting might do some good, and as Augie says, steer a new course if it takes us astray.

 

[Hadron]

I would have to agree, it will be tough to convince new members to pay a fee to join.

Is there a Captcha that A.I. can't solve? Or other methods that will allow humans to sign up while catching bots?

There is this proposal from Randall Munroe:

Spoiler: Don't click if you object to strong language

 

[PitCarver]

I would have to agree, it will be tough to convince new members to pay a fee to join.

Been following these "Growing Pains" discussions and hate to say that I'm in agreement here. I, for one, can't justify extra charges. I'm on a fixed income, retired on disability.

It's not just here either. YouTube has gotten ridiculous. Folks want to change upwards of $29.95, a month, to look at their videos. I've even had to cease watching some favored content because of these charges.

 

[Windroid]

Paying a small amount of money would be one way to show that you're a real person, but only one way. There are other options, such as confirming your phone number. I suppose my point is: There ought to be options, people shouldn't be required to pay if we don't want to kill this site's growth.

 

[Rob]

I, for one, can't justify extra charges.

With these changes, you would have free lifetime VIP (including ad-free browsing).

Anything we do will reward existing members and place the exclusive "burden of proof" on new users.

That being said, suppose Samsung announces the Samsung Time Travel Machine: do we have enough pull that people will want to PAY to join the club? Probably not... but the sense of exclusivity itself is a motivating factor.

That being said, how many PitCarver's would we be keeping out? Surely we can find SOME way to incorporate free accounts, one way or another, so that we don't dissuade great potential members from signing up and contributing. The brainstorm continues...

 

[ocnbrze]

With these changes, you would have free lifetime VIP (including ad-free browsing).

Anything we do will reward existing members and place the exclusive "burden of proof" on new users.

That being said, suppose Samsung announces the Samsung Time Travel Machine: do we have enough pull that people will want to PAY to join the club? Probably not... but the sense of exclusivity itself is a motivating factor.

That being said, how many PitCarver's would we be keeping out? Surely we can find SOME way to incorporate free accounts, one way or another, so that we don't dissuade great potential members from signing up and contributing. The brainstorm continues...

this site does not need more @PitCarver 's ......one is enough

 

[olbriar]

A forum charging to be a member would be an instant put off for me. If I like a particular forum, at my choice, I always up my membership with a premium or whatever account. I like being supportive if the site has great content and the powers that be run a tight ship. However, if I was confronted with a pay or move along to join a forum I'd definitely be looking for another similar forum. Even a nominal fee would be a major put off. There are near countless forums that are free. I am not ready to pay to participate. Perhaps with everyone charging for everything these days paid forums are in the near future. I won't be a member. I hope that if we go to a pay format that I'm far in the minority with my mindset.

I would not be upset if I had to jump through a hoop to join a forum. A routine of confirming my identity doesn't bother me and has become expected from a lot of sites nowadays. Implementing that into the forum world would not be as offensive and could server the same purpose.

My $0.02

 

[PitCarver]

this site does not need more @PitCarver 's on this site......one is enough

 

[treb1797]

A forum charging to be a member would be an instant put off for me. If I like a particular forum, at my choice, I always up my membership with a premium or whatever account. I like being supportive if the site has great content and the powers that be run a tight ship. However, if I was confronted with a pay or move along to join a forum I'd definitely be looking for another similar forum. Even a nominal fee would be a major put off. There are near countless forums that are free. I am not ready to pay to participate. Perhaps with everyone charging for everything these days paid forums are in the near future. I won't be a member. I hope that if we go to a pay format that I'm far in the minority with my mindset.

I would not be upset if I had to jump through a hoop to join a forum. A routine of confirming my identity doesn't bother me and has become expected from a lot of sites nowadays. Implementing that into the forum world would not be as offensive and could server the same purpose.

My $0.02

 

[AugieTN]

I bet people would pay a dollar to post, "What icon is this?" since we see it almost daily.

 

[Unforgiven]

My $0.02

The irony. 🤣

All of us that wouldn't have to pay a thing advocating for the potential new members that may have to pay is part of what makes this place great. I certainly lean against pay to participate, but I also see the need to generate revenue and prevent abuse by spammers, scammers, AI bots, or bots in general.

Now, don't get too political in this Android Forums / Early Bird immigration policy debate. I don't want to have to move this to PCA. :vroam:

 

[Rob]

The irony. 🤣

Alright, free memberships but it costs $0.02 for each post lol jk

 

[treb1797]

I'll pay anything if you bring back the original action emojis

 

[Rob]

I'll pay anything if you bring back the original action emojis

What action emojis?