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And here we go

Yes it is!

Irish independence FTL :-\

Instead we have crappy two-teir system in Ireland :rolleyes:

Its fine till you start dying or are astmathic like me...

YAY :(

Funny, in England, you can't get Xolair as a child (6-11 years old) unless you pay out of pocket, either. Even though it's the best anti-asthma drug on the market.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7939392/Nice-denies-asthma-drug-to-children.html

Dr Mike Thomas, chief medical adviser to the charity, said: "Hundreds of children across England with the most severe, allergic asthma will now be denied a pioneering treatment that could free them from crippling daily asthma symptoms, endless trips to hospital and huge amounts of time off school."

He continued: "For parents of children with severe asthma aged six to 11 who have already trialled Xolair and had their lives transformed, this news will come as a massive blow.
 
Cutbacks? :rolleyes:
I was referring to hospital admissions btw
Also GP costs are MASSIVE here

Cutbacks? No, it's not a cutback: Xolair has never been covered in that age group in the UK. It was denied for coverage by NICE.

You referenced being asthmatic, which is why I made the point.

I'm fully aware of how the UK system operates. My expertise is largely focused around NICE, however.
 
But not the "expensive" cancer treatments, which are frequently the newly developed treatments...
I'm not terribly well clued-up on the US insurance system; are you saying that all US Health Insurance plans will provide open-ended funding for all treatments? Earlier in this thread there was a mention of cheaper plans that didn't cover everything, I'm confused?? I did previously ask what the cost for a plan was too, but I don't think that's been mentioned either.

I'm sure that some treatments aren't available through Public health care, but from my personal perspective I think the Public Healthcare provided is bloody good, and is paid for through approx. 6% of my Income Tax; I'm pretty certain I wouldn't get Private insurance for the same amount.

...Which you don't have, because your government pays most of your health costs...
Not because my government pays, but because my government pays I choose not to, because I don't foresee the need (and in addition I doubt I could afford to, leaving me with no coverage in a system that relied on private coverage)

And while the article you referenced is interesting, and valid to the discussion in general, it's not relevant to me personally, as I'm not in the UK at present.
 
I'm not terribly well clued-up on the US insurance system; are you saying that all US Health Insurance plans will provide open-ended funding for all treatments? Earlier in this thread there was a mention of cheaper plans that didn't cover everything, I'm confused?? I did previously ask what the cost for a plan was too, but I don't think that's been mentioned either.
All of these depend, frankly. You can buy plans that have annual limits (I wouldn't, personally). You can buy plans that don't cover specific things. As far as coverage is concerned, MCOs (managed care organizations) use a variety of measures including:
Referals (you need your PCP to refer you to a specialist)
Fail first (you need to fail a specific drug/treatment before you can be given another)
Prior authorization (Prescribing entity needs to receive advance authorization before they will cover something.)
Formulary tiers (increasing co-pays for certain kinds of drugs; only biologics and brand drugs are relevant for this concern)
etc.

The kinds of utilization management (UM) you're subject to depends largely on the company that you're with. As does your coverage. And how much you pay for your coverage. The different kinds of insurance you can have also vary on this level. For example, HMO plans will provide the same coverage for cheaper, but you're more restricted in the doctors you can see compared to a PPO/POS. If you go out of network on a HMO, your plan wouldn't cover any of it. There are some exceptions (emergency care, for example) to this.
I'm sure that some treatments aren't available through Public health care, but from my personal perspective I think the Public Healthcare provided is bloody good, and is paid for through approx. 6% of my Income Tax; I'm pretty certain I wouldn't get Private insurance for the same amount.
My current health plan (which is a pretty good one, TBQH) costs me about 5.8% of my income. Of course, my company (who receives a tax break for what they contribute) pays a substantial portion of my cost. If you were in the U.S., would you say that you make less than $20k? 40k? 50k? Under health reform, those first two sets of numbers would either have free care (Medicaid, which would also cover all drugs/etc), or subsidized care (in the case of the second number), specifically on the premium. The amount of the premium you pay also affects your co-pays and the formulary tiering for drugs/etc -- it has to do with the actuarial value of the plan. (Essentially how much of the expected cost is paid down by the premium, as opposed to co-pays, deductibles, etc). Additionally, all money that I spend on my health care, including my insurance premium, is deducted from my taxes.
Not because my government pays, but because my government pays I choose not to, because I don't foresee the need (and in addition I doubt I could afford to, leaving me with no coverage in a system that relied on private coverage)
I don't know what you make, but under health reform, I doubt you'd be in a situation where you would be unable to afford coverage.
And while the article you referenced is interesting, and valid to the discussion in general, it's not relevant to me personally, as I'm not in the UK at present.
Can I ask where you are? I'm generally familiar with most health systems, though the UK system (and NICE in particular) gets the most play for us, because that's the international system our clients are most interested in.

//edit

For the record -- one of the reasons I prefer our system is, I can shop the system. I can look at the available health plan offerings, particularly after health reform. I look for the ones that offer the best coverage for whatever condition I have, whether it's the drugs, or the procedures, or what have you. In a system like the UK system, I'm limited to what NICE has authorized.
 
I would be earning closest to the $20k mark, so I guess I'd be getting the 'free' Medicaid', would I therefore be able to get the expensive new treatments that you were talking about being unavailable within the UK NHS system?

...I look for the ones that offer the best coverage for whatever condition I have...
Are you saying you can take out an affordable plan that offers the most expensive treatments, even for pre-existing conditions?

...In a system like the UK system, I'm limited to what NICE has authorized.
But that's assuming you go without ANY private healthcare insurance, if you go private I assume you have the same options of new expensive treatments as in the US?

I ask because I've never looked too deeply into private healthcare as a) I couldn't afford it; b) my Public cover seems to meet my needs.

Edit:
...My current health plan (which is a pretty good one, TBQH) costs me about 5.8% of my income...
And just for clarity my figure of 6% was 6% of my Income Tax, not my income; I assume that your plan is not charged at a % of your income, in other words if your salary doubled tomorrow you plan would double in $ cost, but rather halve in % cost? I'm not going to ask what you earn, but consider what the % cost of your plan would be for somebody earning say $20kpa, would you think it would still be affordable.

ANyway, I'm not saying that either system is better, but I will say that the UK system, which is more similar to mine is a lot more simple, from a consumers POV!
 
I would be earning closest to the $20k mark, so I guess I'd be getting the 'free' Medicaid', would I therefore be able to get the expensive new treatments that you were talking about being unavailable within the UK NHS system?
Yep. Medicaid would cover any/all treatments, including co-payments.
Are you saying you can take out an affordable plan that offers the most expensive treatments, even for pre-existing conditions?
After health reform, pre-existing conditions cannot be used as a rating adjustment for cost for plans.
But that's assuming you go without ANY private healthcare insurance, if you go private I assume you have the same options of new expensive treatments as in the US?

I ask because I've never looked too deeply into private healthcare as a) I couldn't afford it; b) my Public cover seems to meet my needs.
Yep. Though I have no idea how much private plans would cost out there.
Edit:

And just for clarity my figure of 6% was 6% of my Income Tax, not my income; I assume that your plan is not charged at a % of your income, in other words if your salary doubled tomorrow you plan would double in $ cost, but rather halve in % cost? I'm not going to ask what you earn, but consider what the % cost of your plan would be for somebody earning say $20kpa, would you think it would still be affordable.
Yeah, it's a flat $ amount, not a %. Which means as you make more, it takes up less of your % salary, but also it's still deductible from your income taxes, so you save some money there. Since you're making $20k, you'd be right around 133% of FPL, which would mean your care is free. If you were just over it, your insurance cost through the exchange would be capped at 3% of your income, but since you'd be around 140-150% FPL, would probably be substantially less than that due to the subsidy. On the other hand, if your salary doubled under your current system, you'd still be paying 6% of it into the system.
ANyway, I'm not saying that either system is better, but I will say that the UK system, which is more similar to mine is a lot more simple, from a consumers POV!
It is a lot simpler. It's easy to make a system simple when you just have one payer.
 
it has been announced that 30 companies (including McDonalds) have received waivers to the health care law...... nearly 1 million employees

I hope none of these people get sick...... they wont have the coverage they need to live
 
it has been announced that 30 companies (including McDonalds) have received waivers to the health care law...... nearly 1 million employees

I hope none of these people get sick...... they wont have the coverage they need to live

Yeah, because they certainly wouldn't be eligible for Medicaid or a subsidy for a real plan, right?

Man, wouldn't it be awesome if they were?
 
yes in 2014 the majority will be eligible for a subsidy (Medicaid)........ until then a portion of them (the minimum wage portion) will be eligible for Medicaid........

so the low income workers have the same coverage options they had BEFORE obamacare was enacted..... why exactly was obamacare needed?

the rest of the workers just have to pray they dont get sick for 3 years..... so the odds are certainly in their favor...... since we can legislate when they will get sick
 
yes in 2014 the majority will be eligible for a subsidy (Medicaid)........ until then a portion of them (the minimum wage portion) will be eligible for Medicaid........
It seems like you haven't read anything I've explained thus far. I'm not going to waste my time repeating myself on the distinction between the subsidy and Medicaid.
so the low income workers have the same coverage options they had BEFORE obamacare was enacted..... why exactly was obamacare needed?
Considering that none of the coverage provisions go into place until 2014, people are in the same situation until 2014... the "waiver" that the companies have applied for don't go into effect until 2014 either. How are they any worse off, out of curiosity?
the rest of the workers just have to pray they dont get sick for 3 years..... so the odds are certainly in their favor...... since we can legislate when they will get sick
Just like they already had to pray before health reform?
 
I have read everyting youve said about the subsidy and you dont seem to understand that the subsidy doesnt apply to the group of people we are discussing....... the "subsidy" will not allow them to decrease their premiums...... it requires them to drop their coverage and go on Medicaid..... assuming theres no law preventing you from receiving Medicaid if you have plans available to you through work which cost you less than 9.5% of your income (which in the example of McDonalds, prevents many from receiving Medicaid)

yes when the subsidies do go into effect..... in 2014..... it will help decrease the premiums for a very small group of middle class people....... provided that they pay a significant portion of their income for health insurance.... which the majority dont

the waivers go into effect in 2011 when the minimum coverage goes into effect @ $750K.......so if they have minimal coverage then I would say they are a lot worse off compared to the workers at companies who dont get waivers........ unless of course they decide to enroll in welfare... which they could already do without obamacare

and yes the group that had to pray before health reform.... and will still have to pray.... are no worse off than they were before the reform..... but they are also no better off..... so again I ask...... why did we need reform?
 
I have read everyting youve said about the subsidy and you dont seem to understand that the subsidy doesnt apply to the group of people we are discussing....... the "subsidy" will not allow them to decrease their premiums...... it requires them to drop their coverage and go on Medicaid..... assuming theres no law preventing you from receiving Medicaid if you have plans available to you through work which cost you less than 9.5% of your income (which in the example of McDonalds, prevents many from receiving Medicaid)

yes when the subsidies do go into effect..... in 2014..... it will help decrease the premiums for a very small group of middle class people....... provided that they pay a significant portion of their income for health insurance.... which the majority dont

the waivers go into effect in 2011 when the minimum coverage goes into effect @ $750K.......so if they have minimal coverage then I would say they are a lot worse off compared to the workers at companies who dont get waivers........ unless of course they decide to enroll in welfare... which they could already do without obamacare

and yes the group that had to pray before health reform.... and will still have to pray.... are no worse off than they were before the reform..... but they are also no better off..... so again I ask...... why did we need reform?

You're wrong and don't understand how the subsidy/waivers work within the exchange. I don't know how else to say it.

You also don't understand how Medicaid works. Probably both currently, but certainly under the health reform changes.
 
yes your emotions and urge to push everyone into socialized medicine must mean Im wrong........ despite the facts
 
yes your emotions and urge to push everyone into socialized medicine must mean Im wrong........ despite the facts

I'm neither emotional nor trying to push everyone into socialized medicine.

I've already explained these things to you, and said I wouldn't do it a second time, and you're continuing to demonstrate your lack of knowledge.
 
as Ive already shown you in regards to the waivers...... they take effect immediately....... which is the main topic of the thread........ you clearly believe the required minimum provisions dont kick in until 2014 (WRONG) ........ if this is the kind of explanation that youve given me then I will gladly step out of the conversation and leave it to those who are apparently unfamiliar with the obamacare changes......

no second explanation of incorrect information is needed
 
as Ive already shown you in regards to the waivers...... they take effect immediately....... which is the main topic of the thread........ you clearly believe the required minimum provisions dont kick in until 2014 (WRONG) ........ if this is the kind of explanation that youve given me then I will gladly step out of the conversation and leave it to those who are apparently unfamiliar with the obamacare changes......

no second explanation of incorrect information is needed


The waivers don't matter until the fees kick in, which is 2014.

I'm not going to waste my time formating this. The minimum coverage provision is what the Secretary defines as being essential health benefits. Please read section 1302 of the ACA. You'll find it doesn't go into effect until 1/1/2014.

The following MCO provisions are currently live:
Annual premium rate review
Dependent coverage to age 26
Grandfathering of existing plans from some requirements
Prohibit pre-existing conditions as a exclusion for children under age 19
Prohibit rescinding except in case of fraud
Prohibit lifetime limits
Allow annual limits to a dollar amount determined by the Secretary.
Internal claims and appeals and external review process
Prohibit employers from limiting coverage eligibility based on salary
Self-funded (ERISA) plans comply with parts of reform.
The last 4 went live on September 23rd.

That's it, for insurance market reforms. I'm not going to go through the (much more extensive) list of insurance market reforms that go live in 2014.
 
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