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android shortcomings

nmout

nmout

Lurker
Hi

I have an iphone and I am thinking of buying the android desire hd, but i hear of some shortcomings about android system:
1) everything is installed in the small internal memory and in order to move apps to the external sd it needs routing and then the apps are slower because sd is slower than internal memory
2) the apps are devise specific, so there are android app that I can't use because I do not have the right phone
3) operating system is not getting updated so for most phones we are stuck with the os it was sold with, can a phone bought last year have todays os?
4) there is routing for some phones but not for others for the same os

are those info correct?
are there other shortcomings?

thanks
 
The internal memory is not that small depending on the device. There are apps that are designed to move the the sd card, root has nothing to do with it.

Apps are not device specific, but they can be OS specific.

OS upgrades are up to the manufacturer and carrier.

To my knowledge just about every Android phone can be "rooted".

Rooting is not much different than jail breaking the iphone. The difference is there are many more things that can be done without rooting Android than there are to do without jail breaking the iphone.
 
1) Android apps are significantly smaller than iOS apps, even when comparing the same across platforms. It took me a while to get over this (and I still haven't completely). I wish my phone had more internal memory, but not for any reason logical. I just like to see that large amount of free space. I admit it, I am guilty. Things that you might want to move over are games. Virtusally all games allow this feature, and work just fine on the SD card.

2) This is VERY limited. That is to say, think of an app you want. Your phone will almost certainly be able to utilize it, unless you are getting a lower end android. Being that you are switching from iPhone 4, I doubt this is the case. It is (almost) the same difference as picking up an iPhone 3G. There are going to be apps you can;t use. Why? because it's a lower end device. The difference is, there are still lower end Android devices on the market because they appeal to a crowd that wants to spend less on their smartphone.

3) If you are truly worried about this, stay away from samsung. For the most part, you will be fine with many others (HTC has the best track record). This is another one of those things that I have issues with. But think of it this way. Say you got a device with 2.2 froyo on it. Technically, the current relase is 2.3 gingerbread. What is there in 2.3 that you are missing out on? You don't even know! As I said, I am guilty too. I want the latest and greatest. Unfortunatly, right now, this is probabl Android's biggest shortcoming as an OS. We do have hope of this being alleviated and/or irradicated with Honeycomb though. Really, you aren't missing out on much between 2.2 and 2.3, it is just that "but I get iOS updates on day 1" mentality that holds you (and me) back. For what it's worth, I was always jailbroken and too lazy to redo everything each time I wanted to update, so unless there were killer new features in a new OS release, I always left well enough alone (and still I complain!)

4) Most phones are rootable or able to be rooted a short time after their release (takes a dev team to crack it!). I am not sure why this is an issue for you. is the phone you are looking at not rootable? If it isn't, no problem, right?
 
Things execute in RAM, the slowest components on any phone are the user i/o parts - screen, keyboard.

Storing apps and data on the SD card should be a don't care for speed. It's not routing, it's just another filesystem attached to the OS.

Common services are available and running on demand with the Android OS. Apps therefore don't have to drag all of that baggage for those capabilities around themselves and can be therefore much smaller. Having all apps rely on common services rather than carrying their own versions of stuff also ought to result in smoother and more stable operations for all apps.

This is why some of us strongly feel that the Android OS multitasking system, which is there to support this sort of app architecture, is in fact superior.
 
5) how many pages with apps can there be in android?
6) how many apps can it take
7) are there folders with apps inside?
8) what is the max internal memory 1.5 gb?
 
5. 7, I believe.

6. Who knows, there is no magic number, it's about the size of the apps.

7. If that's what you want to do, yes.

8. Depends on the device.
 
5) Stock android has 5 pages, I blieve. It is expandable to 7 (stock sense, for example). Think of this as a quick launch, as it is not your limiting factor. There is also an apps list (middle "botton" in your "dock"). This, as the name implaies, is simply and alphabetical list of your apps. It is always available to you. You can also do a generic search for apps on your device without having to manually locate them (like on iOS).

6) Each page takes 12 apps. So if you just want all your apps on pages you get 7x12=84. Again, you aren't actually limited to this number of apps. If you are adding widgets, depending on the physical widgets size, this may be reduced. There are some widgets that are as small as 1x2, while others take up a whole page. Often times you are given options depending on home muh information you actually want displayed. IMO, your pages are muh better used up with useful widgets and a couple quick launch every day apps.

7) You can easily make a folder. There are also apps that are essential special icons/folders (special graphics for say your games folder)

8) I think you are referring to ROM, or the memory that the apps are stored onboard the phone? If my assumption in your reference is correct, I believe currently the biggest is 2gb, but manufacturers are noticing people demand more, even though I can honestly say we don't really need it. Need doesn't awlaays correlate to want, and I think the industry is taking note of this.


As sort of a general statement, there are many "every day" utilities that the iOS appstore has that we simply don't need on android, because it is built in. Now, I don't know what apps you are using (maybe you want to share that information with us), but I would bet that a large chunk of your apps list is built right into the OS, unless of course you just have a TON of games on your iPhone. If this is the case, that is one place Android is SORELY lacking IMO. Really the only aspect of my iPhone 4 that I miss. P.S. I have had them all!
 
Yeah - on that pages with apps thing.

In Android, there's a central place where all apps are stored, accorded to the user point of view, typically called the App Drawer. In that, are your apps stored either in list or icon fashion alphabetically (up to you) - because that list can get big.

The ways to present and manage screens vary - while some call this part fragmentation, we call it choice.

The function and appearance is controlled by a component we call the launcher.

Each popular phone vendor has their own launcher: HTC=Sense, Motorola=MotoBlur, Samsung=TouchWiz, Nexus=Stock_Android_Launcher and whatever else is going on out there.

So, there begins the appearance differences. Because look and feel is important and need not be relegated and locked to a phone vendor, you can also choose free or paid versions of third party launchers and many people do that. The popular ones off the top of my head are LaucherPro and ADW.

The popular launcher scheme is to have 7 desktop pages upon which you store app or widgets - many widgets are active views into apps running in the backgroud.

On mine, rather than have to slide left, right, left, right (and I can do that) I can simply make a pinch-action on any desktop screen and the 7 appear as thumbnails and then I can jump to where I like.

Also - Folders. You can group apps by function on a desktop by putting them into a folder.

Many applications exist to help you to customize your entire layout and user experience so it's most convenient to you - including an almost rolodex-style - help me out gang - uh, rotary? - of your apps and so forth.

The number of app pages is an OK paradigm, but with Android's choices, it's not the only one to use when thinking about managing your user experience.

PS to lordofthereef - we post again, as so often, you're too quick for me! :D
 
nmout said:
5) how many pages with apps can there be in android?
6) how many apps can it take
7) are there folders with apps inside?
8) what is the max internal memory 1.5 gb?
Click to expand...

5)With Android you have homescreens and you also have an app drawer. You can have 7 home screens that you can put your most used apps, widgets, and shortcuts on, but you also have the app drawer which shows you every single app you have downloaded.
6)As many as there is room for on your internal memory and, if you have Froyo, on your SD card.
7)Why do you need folders?
8)I believe the most internal memory I have seen is 16GB, but really it depends on the phone.
 
iphone has 11 pages with apps x 16 apps/page
each icon can be a folder instead having 12 apps inside
so max apps is 11 pages x 16 folders x 12 apps in a folder
my 16 gb iphone is full of apps and I have to delete one in order to add one

so if only a small part of every app is installed in internal memory of 1.5 gb here
HTC - Products - HTC Desire HD - Specification
i assume the internal memory will be full before the external sd is full

also
9) what is this with custom roms i read?
10) apps are scattered in many websites and i have to search them one by one to find the one i need?
 
Seeing as though the external memory can be 32GB, yes, the internal memory will fill up first.

ROMs are different builds of the OS +/- other apps/features, etc.

I only by apps from the Android market.

Do you regularly use 16GB of apps or do you just install them for the heck of it?
I went through my apps over the weekend and deleted everything I haven't used in the past month.

I only use 3 of my 7 screens and neither of them are filled with apps. I use launcher pro and I have shortcuts to my most frequently used apps in the dock. Each icon in the dock can launch 2 apps. For everything else I just open the app drawer.
To me filling the screens with apps is just too cluttered.
 
Can you give us a short list of the apps you use daily? Also, I am guessing, if you have filled your app space on your iPhone up, you are an app hoarder. This isn't meant in a deragotory way, but I have a hard time believing you have used every one of those apps over the last month, let alone week or even day. A goodly number of those are probably utility apps that I would bet are simply built into android so you won't need an app for that specific function. I would recommend that you look over what you truly use and need, and get rid of the bloat. If you truly feel you cannot, this is fine, but I will be upfront and say that your Android phone will probably be beyond capacity.

9) cuStom roms means modified OS. Unlike iOS, most service providers will add bloat. Custom Roms are the way to get a clean install without the junk. They also might include things like performance tweaks, free tethering, etc. just to name a few. There are generally a handful off flavors to pick fro depending on the handset you use. The more popular handsets generally have the larger number of roms.

10) There is a "marketplace" which is essentially analogous to the "appstore". There is even a "better" market called appbrain, which has a bit more of a sophisticatd search and sort functions.
 
Little Green Robot said:
8)I believe the most internal memory I have seen is 16GB, but really it depends on the phone.
Click to expand...

Just thought I would point out that I don;t believe the entirity of this space is actually available for app installation. I think there is actual specified amount of memory available on all phones. With the 16gb I am assuming you are thinking of the Nexus S. I can't speak for that, but another phone, the Incredible, has 8GB on board, however not all of that is actually available for application installation. I would guess the same holds true for the Nexus S, although someone else might know better and prove me wrong.
 
nmout said:
iphone has 11 pages with apps x 16 apps/page
each icon can be a folder instead having 12 apps inside
so max apps is 11 pages x 16 folders x 12 apps in a folder
my 16 gb iphone is full of apps and I have to delete one in order to add one
Click to expand...

OK - I don't believe you have over 2000 apps installed on your phone. I could be wrong.

How many apps do you have? And what sorts?

I and others ask not to knock your app needs, but if we have some order of magnitude, we can stop theorizing.

I have a bunch of little helper apps that I use once every blue moon. I have those in a backup on my SD card (not the same as a running app stored on my SD card) and whenever that blue moon comes along, I install, use and uninstall. I don't know that that's because of any memory limitations (although it doesn't hurt) - more to cut down on my clutter.

As far as custom ROMs - in the US, our phones come loaded with bloatware from our carriers - I don't know about the UK. We root them to get rid of it, and often install custom roms to change look, feel and even Android version number. I could install one, but I'd rather have the new version of Sense on the Desire HD, honestly - I'm running the old version, not as slick.

The one phone guaranteed to have the most up-to-date support is the Google Nexus S. It's memory layout is different - no SD card, everything on an internal 16GB - but its interface is much more plain than the Desire HD's so you'd have some customizing to do to get it fancier if that's your pleasure.

Again - Android apps are smaller - but instead of theorizing about memory - what's your needs?
 
there are offline wikipedias from 2 to 5 gb
there are european gps apps with 1.5 gb each
there are offline reference apps like encyclopedias, lexicons, dictionaries, factbooks, magazines that take up a lot of space each one
not to mention 3d games 1 to 1.5 gb each
you can have the 16 gb filled up on the first day you buy the phone (if you jailbrake it)

how true is this about os updates?
http://phandroid.com/2011/01/14/how-to-buy-into-android-at-the-worst-possible-time-humor/
11) if the carrier does not update you can not get the update elsewhere?
12) what if the phone is unlocked?
13) can a locked phone get unlocked by rooting?
 
Offline DATA for apps like wikis and GPS and various world maps - those all go to separate storage on the SD card, regardless of where the app is located.

Your SD storage option goes up to a 32GB card.


Typical Android app size is ... what? - help me out gang - under 10 MB unless bloatware?

Angry Birds, simple 2D game is only 2 MB.

You're really looking at the mismanagement of resources there - each app having to pool everything into one place.
 
Rooting is the same as jailbreaking. The boot loader on the HTCs isn't locked in a way that can't be unlocked by an extension to the rooting process. That's what I've done to mine, an earlier version on the HD. They're still working on the procedures to unlock the HD. The rooting process is simple, instructions here: http://theunlockr.com/2010/11/15/universal-android-rooting-method-visionary-method/

If you mean locked as in locked to a carrier, no rooting won't unlock the phone that way.

Here is the list of custom roms for the Desire HD, it's well-supported by the independent development community: HTC Desire HD/Cooked ROMS - XDA-Developers

The linked article explained well that the Samsung are behind in updates. Outside of the Google Nexus S phone, HTC leads the pack in rapid updates.

Many don't care, root, and go custom. If you want to stay stock, updates may depend on your carrier. Which one over there are you considering?
 
so if an android phone is locked to a carrier there is no way to unlock it and have an other carrier's sim?
in iphone os updates are done via itunes
in android if the carrier does not send the os update we are stuck?
can't we by changing rom install an newer android os?
(in Greece all phones are sold unlocked by law requirement)
 
nmout said:
iphone has 11 pages with apps x 16 apps/page
each icon can be a folder instead having 12 apps inside
so max apps is 11 pages x 16 folders x 12 apps in a folder
my 16 gb iphone is full of apps and I have to delete one in order to add one
Click to expand...

The app drawer has all of the apps available on your phone. The icons are 4 across and can be as long as needed to display all of your apps. The app drawer is not separated in pages. You just scroll down as far as you want to see the remaining apps. I am not aware of any limit to the number of apps you can have. It is likely limited to the storage you have on your phone.

Home pages are designed to be used as shortcuts to various objects. There are 7 home screens on my HTC Desire Z. You can put shortcuts to apps you use most often on these home pages. You can also put other objects like widgets, bookmarks and folders. You can create folders and put shortcuts, bookmarks in these folders if you like organising your home screen this way. I find that the 7 home screens are enough to organise the things I use most often on my phone.
 
You can carrier unlock android phones using the traditional way - get the unlock code from a third party supplier.

Most android phones, but not all, get OS updates from the phone manufacturers. And then it's up to the carrier to release these updates to the customers. The exceptions are the Nexus One and the Nexus S. They both get updates directly from Google over the air, no computer and PC software needed.

Most root friendly phones can install custom ROMs.

For your games and references apps, most of the data are stored in the external memory.

Homepages are analogous to the desktop of your PC and the appdrawer is like your start menu that lists all the programs installed in your system.
 
nmout said:
Hi

I have an iphone and I am thinking of buying the android desire hd, but i hear of some shortcomings about android system:
1) everything is installed in the small internal memory and in order to move apps to the external sd it needs routing and then the apps are slower because sd is slower than internal memory
2) the apps are devise specific, so there are android app that I can't use because I do not have the right phone
3) operating system is not getting updated so for most phones we are stuck with the os it was sold with, can a phone bought last year have todays os?
4) there is routing for some phones but not for others for the same os

are those info correct?
are there other shortcomings?

thanks
Click to expand...


Number one depends on what class your memory class is, but generally you are completely correct.

However I feel that it is only fair to point out the following.
1) iPhone also has software upgrade problems. The newest ios cannot be installed on previous generations of phones properly.
2) some of the newest apps will not run on older iphones because of hardware limitations.

If you are willing to spend the money to upgrade to the newest iphone every year, you can also do the same with android phones, and it will probably be cheaper.
 
nmout said:
11) if the carrier does not update you can not get the update elsewhere?
12) what if the phone is unlocked?
13) can a locked phone get unlocked by rooting?
Click to expand...
I'm in the UK and new to Android, I got a Desire-Z at start of Jan. I got the phone free on a
 
To come back to those first shortcomings you mentioned: The Desire HD has none of these.

1) The phone has about 900 MB of app space, and most apps can be moved to internal memory. In comparisation, my HTC Desire has about 140 MB free when I reset it, I have around 100 apps on it now, it's at around 30 MB free.
2) The Desire HD can run all apps that are out right now fluently. Except for the ones for really small screens, but you don't want those on a 4.3 inch screen. Also, never think of getting Advanced Task Killer, I'll warn you right away.
3) HTC is the most active phone updater, so as long as you don't get a carrier branded device you SURELY get the newest OS updates for at least 1-2 years.
4) The HTC Desire HD has no problems with being rooted.

Get it, right now, you will not regret it.
 
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