Android Updates, Who's Responsible?

[GreatBigDog]

If you insist on 'blaming' Rogers, then perhaps you could say that you don't have OS 1.6 because of a decision they made. I am guessing they decided to bypass OS 1.6 for economic reasons.

Did any Dream/Magic outside of the the Google Experience phones (G1/MT3G) get 1.6? Or did HTC just bypass 1.6 for 2.1?

 

[mjschmidt]

With all due respect, the mere fact that no other carrier is offering anything beyond OS 1.6... in other words, OS 2.x is not available on any Magic (or equivalent) phone makes your statement kind of moot.

T-Mobile. French carrier SFR. They will apparently be getting 2.2.

As I already stated, Rogers choose not to update to OS 1.6 for various [sound] reasons. It is not my place to give those reasons. However, Rogers should officially tell everyone why they decided to skip to OS 2.1.

The decision was made because at the time we started requesting the update to 1.6, 2.1 had just come out. Given that they didn't have a 1.6 update ready, and they would have to make the Rogers modifications, the time necessary to create an update meant it made more sense to go right to 2.1. I assume that this decision also meant a perceived added value to the end user.

And, for the record, I seem to recall that you, sconnelly, stated repeatedly and loudly in a previous thread that YOU didn't want to settle for 1.6.

Here's a blast from the past:

First, can we please stop asking specifically for a 1.6 update. With all due respect, that is short sighted (and suggests give us 1.6 and we

 

[sconnelly]

I am not sure why you went through all the trouble of finding old quotes from me. If anything, they demonstrate my consistency. However, initially and before I knew better, I was indeed annoyed with Rogers. Back then the memory of being 'promised' timely updates was still fresh in mind.

I have since learned that timely updates are rather non-existent with most carriers and phones. I had also learned that the struggle for updates is not exclusive with Rogers.

T-Mobile. French carrier SFR. They will apparently be getting 2.2.

It has not happened yet so this is moot.

And, for the record, I seem to recall that you, sconnelly, stated repeatedly and loudly in a previous thread that YOU didn't want to settle for 1.6.

Again, you demonstrate my consistency. At the early stages, I strongly felt that simply wanting 1.6 was short sighted; yes, I understand that it was expanded to 2.x later... but the point I have been making all along is that the Android phone should receive timely updates until its hardware is no longer supported. That is the pledge I wanted from anyone in authority!

I have now conceded that sort of pledge will never happen, with any phone, or any carrier.

Here's one where you want to record Rogers sales reps (you also say you believe Rogers reps are told to lie): http://androidforums.com/rogers/10647-rogers-dream-1-6-update-16.html#post204614

Yes, and so did a lot of others. I believe, including yourself.

However, I have now come to understand that it wasn't truly a lie, as much as it was simply misinformation or a misunderstanding. I do not believe Rogers specifically instructed their reps to tell a lie.

And here's one where you want in on a class-action lawsuit against Rogers: http://androidforums.com/rogers/10647-rogers-dream-1-6-update-16.html#post204628

I was also highly skeptical that it would ever happen.

1. Rogers had HTC modify the OS, making it necessary for any future updates to require modification.

It was minor branding...there was no actually modification to the OS done (AFAIK).

Anyway, this is somewhat moot now b/c Rogers is planning to sell unmodified phones.

This is also moot because, even 'unmodified' phones are slow to receive OS updates... or never receive updates at all.

2. Rogers told customers that if they bought the phone it would be updated to 1.6.

Already covered above.

3. Rogers pressured HTC to update our phones after we complained loudly to Rogers and after HTC told us they would do nothing, and that it was Rogers who would have to request the update. Now unless Rogers and HTC are lying, (and unless you can PROVE they were lying) then as far as reality goes, that's the truth.

I am unsure what point you are trying to make here. This is all well understood and generally known as truth. However, the Sense UI was already planned as part of the 911 fix. This had nothing to do with any customer complaint but rather to protect Rogers from potential litigation.

sconnelly, I have a question for you. When the 2.1 update is released, will you update your Magic with the official Rogers update? If the answer is yes, just remember that it was our anger and vitriol aimed squarely at Rogers that resulted in that update.

You mean... if 2.1 update becomes available, right?

Let me just say, when it comes out, Rogers reasons for doing so are not solely based upon this group. There are a lot more customers (not associated with this or other websites) involved. That said, in no way do I mean to diminish your commendable effort.

But there are also commercial organizations that are, for various reasons, pressuring Rogers for timely updates. I can only speak for one of them... and their business alone is worth more than 200 residential customers.

Anyhow, in the end, we all want the same thing. That is simply, timely Android OS updates, as long as the hardware supports the update.

And by timely, I mean, within 2 months.... NOT 1 year later...or not at all.

 

[sconnelly]

Here is an interesting and telling blog about other Android owners complaining about lack of updates on their phones and/or carriers.

HTC Droid Eris Will Not Be Updated to Android 2.2 / Froyo | PhoneNews.com

It seems that HTC is the worst for updates... but perhaps carriers that demand customizations add their own twist to this mess.

 

[mjschmidt]

It was minor branding...there was no actually modification to the OS done (AFAIK).

Let me just say, when it comes out, Rogers reasons for doing so are not solely based upon this group. There are a lot more customers (not associated with this or other websites) involved. That said, in no way do I mean to diminish your commendable effort.

It was not just minor branding. It including the installation of apps which can not be uninstalled, and the addition of Exchange Support for using the Magic with a business Exchange email server. (we were told that Rogers hoped the Magic would be adopted as a business phone, like the BB).

I should also like to point out the irony of your previously ranting about wanting to stick to the truth, and how much you dislike all the "rumour" and "opinion", but then in your last post you say...

It was minor branding...there was no actually modification to the OS done (AFAIK).

AFAIK means you don't actually know, you are opining. And you were wrong. If you don't know something to be a fact, then it's not a fact, it's your opinion.

As for why the update is happening, I don't doubt that there were groups other than this forum (and my blog), but without seeming immodest, I would argue that, since I, Don (GBD), and Puleen were actually invited to Rogers head office to make a presentation to management (and to discuss the issue with them at length), and since we had dinner with those same managers (and RogersMary) at a nice restaurant in Toronto to continue that discussion... it is safe to assume we had an important and major influence on them.

 

[thewhitewizard]

... it is safe to assume we had an important and major influence on them.

of that i have no doubt, and i thank all of you for the efforts you put in. it stands to reason that as pissed as i was at the time, i dont think i could have even attempted to mobilize something as concerted as this iwantmyonepointsix which spawned into the 2.1 im about to get.

Gentlemen, i salute you!

 

[sconnelly]

It was not just minor branding. It including the installation of apps which can not be uninstalled, and the addition of Exchange Support for using the Magic with a business Exchange email server. (we were told that Rogers hoped the Magic would be adopted as a business phone, like the BB).

I should also like to point out the irony of your previously ranting about wanting to stick to the truth, and how much you dislike all the "rumour" and "opinion", but then in your last post you say...

AFAIK means you don't actually know, you are opining. And you were wrong. If you don't know something to be a fact, then it's not a fact, it's your opinion.

I wasn't sure if I wanted to continue this but you were, kind of, insulting me.
FYI, you are incorrect. That is what is defined as minor branding!

AFAIK means just that. that is what was explained to me by business sales executives at Rogers, it may or may not have been 100% accurate.

Your personal attacks are completely uncalled for.

 

[sconnelly]

Here is another article that describes how this whole Android update problem is world-wide... In other words, it not just Rogers. BTW, there are a lot of stories about how Rogers customers are now envied by some, on other carriers. The whole Magic OS 2.1 update has received a huge amount of press.

Why Updating Your Smart Phone OS Is A Myth | Lifehacker Australia

 

[agitpropre]

See also this rant in TechCrunch:
Android Is As Open As The Clenched Fist I

 

[thewhitewizard]

http://androidforums.com/members/sconnelly.html@sconnelly and @agitpropre

look, i agree with the premise wholeheartedly. i think my very first or second post here on the forums was a rant and tirade over the sheer stupidity of Google loosing control over the OS and letting the carriers butcher it to $#!7. on that ground i agree with both of you and the articles you point to.

but as it stood for the topic in question, who's responsible for our updates, given the current situation, falls on the carriers 1st and manufacs 2nd and google third UNLESS you actually ended up getting your phone directly through HTC or some store online that sells unlocked phone from accross the globe. the MAJORITY of users here in this forum were Rogers customers who were SOLD on the phone by what Rogers displayed and what ROGERS employees told customers, topped off with the phones actually being branded with the Rogers Logo. Ultimately this puts the Rogers HTC Magic+ upgrade specifically in the hands of Rogers responsibility. And as we see, they finally got it to us, albiet late, still better than never.

Google knows how to get out of this mess. With Android having matured, lets hope the 'rumors' of 3.0 compartmentalize the core OS with carriers being reduced to having to actually make REAL apps that go through the market or create 'themes' that can be kept or discarded at users discretion.

Until that happens, Google keeps putting playing Russian roulette with 5 bullets.

 

[outcastrc]

Android updates are the major reason I (and friends) are concerned about switching to android.

I truly hope that Google locking this problem down in version 3 solves this. This also means (to me anyways) that there will be no interest in any current phone being updated to v3. I hope I'm wrong...

 

[Sined]

The Nexus One Was Google’s Dream. The Carriers Were Freddy Krueger.

Carriers are the enemy of a unified Android platform.

 

[outcastrc]

The Nexus One Was Google