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Anyone else getting angry about removed apps?

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nerdstaz

Well-Known Member
So far in over 2 years, I have lost about 55 bucks in applications Google has removed.

Most recently TV Show Streamer and Movie Streamer, 4 bucks a pop..gone. That's almost 2 packs of smokes...if I smoked....

I didn't pirate these applications, I purchased them. Yes some where emulators...some where the tv streaming apps/movie stream apps. While I imagined these could have been copyright infringing, only because I am not an idiot...how can they justify taking them without a credit or refund? And some things, like the emulators..are part of the reason I wanted an Android phone.

Netflix comes out, Hulu comes out, and the Xperia Play...then all of these just happen to disappear. Too bad my phone supports neither (Thunderbolt). This is the sort of fragmentation that everyone harps about. I am starting to feel fruity...they need better regulations.



Sorry for the rant, but ....anyone had any luck getting those refunds? Between the market and crap like gameloft does this is getting frustrating!

( PS I won't buy an iphone anytime soon but...I am just an upset lover who didn't get his Android last night)
 
Also some of the emulators that were removed when the Xperia came out were violating the open source license of the code they used to run. One was, (IIRC) just a repackaging of open source code with a different name. And the license said they were not allowed to sell any apps based on that code. So for that one at least I'm glad they removed it.

Though I do feel your pain, it's frustrating when something you enjoy such as an emulator goes away. And some of the stuff like Hulu seem to want to charge you based on what socks your wearing that day, though netflix seems a bit better.
 
drdoom said:
To be fair, those apps scream of copyright infringement. To top it all off, they even charged for them. You should have been more careful about purchasing those apps, or at least backed them up.
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Then why did they make it in the market for near 6 months each, the emulators for over 2 years? I know why they got removed. Why didn't we get an email? I mean look at it from my Mother's perspective perhaps. She got her Droid 2 for Facebook and is oblivious to things of this nature. She bought this app, and now she will have to lose the money too. I am not as upset that the apps are gone, just that you spend money and lose what you paid for.

I understand that its because it would prevent people from subbing to hulu plus or netflix...but neither of those work on my device due to fragmentation of hardware vs OSes or whatever reason they want to give these days. If they are going to hammer down, they at least need to address all problems not minor ones. Besides, my email is through the same company removing. They could notify people. I know plenty of resources to get the APKs, that isn't a big deal. It's just the principle and how it's handled. Hell, a public service announcement? Notify some of our daily tech blogs?

Now I am back to square 1. My 3 month old Thunderbolt can't do things my old X can do again. Ridiculous no matter how you shake it.

If I wanted to NOT pay and inconvenience myself, I would just torrent and load the stuff on the cloud. But I chose something from the Google market.

And I have to address this directly "You should have been more careful downloading those apps". I had Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past for SNESoid. I own that game in physical form, having it on my phone was just BA. I cannot see the code, and emulators are typically NOT illegal for my purpose. So tell me, friend, how am I to determine this? That this app is kosher? There is no Google stamp of approval so you very well can't see these things!

What's next? eBuddy because AOL gets all in a fit? VLC because I am streaming from my home computer? They just need to find a way to let people know and not be so sneaky. They should also offer store credit for things over say, 3 bucks? Because otherwise I can just toss some app up tomorrow for 20 bucks that was someone elses idea...sell 1000 copies real quick, give you the finger, and watch google yank it. That's ridiculous.
 
alostpacket said:
Also some of the emulators that were removed when the Xperia came out were violating the open source license of the code they used to run. One was, (IIRC) just a repackaging of open source code with a different name. And the license said they were not allowed to sell any apps based on that code. So for that one at least I'm glad they removed it.

Though I do feel your pain, it's frustrating when something you enjoy such as an emulator goes away. And some of the stuff like Hulu seem to want to charge you based on what socks your wearing that day, though netflix seems a bit better.
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Yea, Hulu is ridiculous. 4 episodes, nothing anyone normal watches, at a price..with commercials still! I refuse to pay for that service. My free trial turned me off on an iPad. (Don't hit me for having that...it was an accident).
 
I recently downloaded Hanging With Friends from the market but never opened it as I was waiting for my girlfreind to get it on her iPhone so we could play each other. By the time she got it a couple of days later, I went to load it up but noticed it was no longer on my phone. I thought maybe i'd dreamt downloading it so went to the market to get it again and surprise surprise, it is no longer there!

I understand the reasons why they do this, and luckily for me, it was a free app, but I would still expect some kind of notification as to why they had to do this and how I could obtain a refund if I did in fact pay for this. Maybe it's time Google introduced a similar approval process like Apple, purely to ensure these dodgy/illegal apps don't make it to market in the first place? Coming from an iPhone, I would never have to double check whether an app was legit or not as I was downloading from the official app store, but that does not seem to be the case on Android.
 
nerdstaz said:
how can they justify taking them without a credit or refund?
Click to expand...


Let's say someone stole your car. The thief then turned around and sold it to someone else. The police find your car, and tell the new owner they need to take the car and return it to you. After all, it's yours. Isn't that the right thing to do?
 
xmjox said:
I recently downloaded Hanging With Friends from the market but never opened it as I was waiting for my girlfreind to get it on her iPhone so we could play each other. By the time she got it a couple of days later, I went to load it up but noticed it was no longer on my phone. I thought maybe i'd dreamt downloading it so went to the market to get it again and surprise surprise, it is no longer there!

I understand the reasons why they do this, and luckily for me, it was a free app, but I would still expect some kind of notification as to why they had to do this and how I could obtain a refund if I did in fact pay for this. Maybe it's time Google introduced a similar approval process like Apple, purely to ensure these dodgy/illegal apps don't make it to market in the first place? Coming from an iPhone, I would never have to double check whether an app was legit or not as I was downloading from the official app store, but that does not seem to be the case on Android.
Click to expand...


Yep, Android is a different beast, a bit more wild (and glorious). But you'll need to watch out for yourself.

If you havent seen this yet:

http://androidforums.com/android-ap...ps-avoid-viruses-guide-those-new-android.html
 
Oddly I just got a comment for Listables in Russian where the guy said he couldnt see Listables on his HTC desire, which is odd because it's a supported device/API level for Listables...


Sometimes the Market just messes up and doesnt show things I think.
 
nerdstaz said:
And I have to address this directly "You should have been more careful downloading those apps". I had Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past for SNESoid.
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Some more information here about SNESoid:
[Updated Again] N64oid, Snesoid And Other Emulators Pulled From The Market, Developer Suspended, Are Emulators Soon To Be Banned Content? | Android News, Apps, Games, Phones, Tablets - Android Police

"Update: There’s actually evidence that yongzh repeatedly refused to comply with open-source licensing requirements in his emulators. There’s a Reddit thread in which various commenters discuss the merits of that explanation. Thanks to those that pointed it out. This seems like an equally likely possibility."

Android Market's most popular emulators disappear without a trace, and their associated developer accounts removed without explanation : Android

"The explanation is almost certainly the authors of the open source emulators he ripped off complaining. For example Snesoid is based on snes9x but without attribution or source code release."

http://www.snes9x.com/journal.asp

"Second, and more importantly, we’d like to clarify the Snes9x license. It has come to our attention that several people have auctioned off Snes9x and ROMs on Ebay. Quite aside from the fact that selling ROMs is almost certainly illegal in any jurisdiction, it is a violation of the license to sell Snes9x. Please read and respect the license, and report anyone trying to scam money out of people for Snes9x. Thank you."


nerdstaz said:
I own that game in physical form, having it on my phone was just BA. I cannot see the code, and emulators are typically NOT illegal for my purpose. So tell me, friend, how am I to determine this? That this app is kosher?
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It seems to be the commercially sold emulator apps and bundled games which where NOT kosher, for violating non-commercial use licenses and bundling copyrighted games, e.g. Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past for SNESoid

BTW Snes9x EX is available in the Market as this is OK. You should be able to play your Legend of Zelda with that. Obviously it's up to you to find the ROMs for the games that you legally own.

ADDED:-

nerdstaz said:
There is no Google stamp of approval so you very well can't see these things!
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But often there are indicators that an application might be bogus or even malicious. e.g. a games console emulator which seeks completely non-relevant permissions, like GPS Location, Phone Calls, SMS/texting, Camera.
 
Thank you for all of your responses..some of these things I honestly had no idea about, and I am a pretty hardcore nerd =P and try to stay well informed.

But it still kind of side steps the issue. The issue is, if I am sitting at a family reunion and don't want to hear anymore of Grandpa's fish stories, I don't have time to do thorough research.... My complain is..that they retract these submissions with no warning. Some people come to me when there is a problem with their phone, just as they do their PC. So if they come and yell at me because they grabbed something on the Android phone...the phone I suggested, and now they can't find it? Then I have to do all of this boring explaining to someone that doesn't know a home key from a power button. That happens you know. When Google could just auto-populate a message with developer contact information, and potentially with a method to force refunds. Some people do decide to charge large amounts for applications. It needs to be a little more fool proof. If you have ever worked in any tech field, you know to never trust the user will do the right thing or is informed/trained properly.

There is a woman, in her 70s , and I am her go-to tech guy. She calls me every time she screws something up. She saw my phone a while back (Droid 1) and loved it. Loved that she could check facebook etc. Keep in mind that this lady doesn't know anymore than how to say "Hey" to her grandkids on facebook or send a text message. This lady had surgery, and she too saw the tv show app on the market. She downloaded it and watched it while she was in the hospital a few days. She just got her Tbolt...and its gone. And she called me flipping out asking me what the deal was. I explained it, and it immediately made her uncomfortable using the Google Market. Do you blame her?

That's why I made this thread, I don't really need people telling me WHY things where removed. I am not green to the interwebs nor the world of piracy and identity theft. Knowledge doesn't soften the blow of spending money and having your items taken away. (Also, in the world of Android, these guys could easily put us a website up and let us still grab the APK. But not everyone realizes this!)

I am curious as to how many others have experienced things like this and how comfortable it makes them feel. How upset does it make you? I don't really need to know anything else. Just this. Thanks.

(But I do appreciate the snes9x reference, I knew something like that..but never bothered to dive any further).
 
I didn't read through the entire thread, but I have a couple words of advice. If a backup had been made then there would be no problem with it not being in the market anymore. As for refunds, that is simply is impossible from Google. Google didn't sell you the app, it was the developer. Google has no authority to force refunds nor do they have the ability. Besides that, do you think the developer even has that money anymore? It is not likely since we are not talking about large corporations here. Finally, I have one last piece of advice: Caveat emptor (buyer beware) Only you can be responsible for how you spend your money. If it seems even remotely shady and you lose your money then you can really only blame yourself. It seems the general public has forgotten this and is always looking for someone to come in and save the day when something does not go their way.
 
UKCatFan said:
I didn't read through the entire thread, but I have a couple words of advice. If a backup had been made then there would be no problem with it not being in the market anymore. As for refunds, that is simply is impossible from Google. Google didn't sell you the app, it was the developer. Google has no authority to force refunds nor do they have the ability. Besides that, do you think the developer even has that money anymore? It is not likely since we are not talking about large corporations here. Finally, I have one last piece of advice: Caveat emptor (buyer beware) Only you can be responsible for how you spend your money. If it seems even remotely shady and you lose your money then you can really only blame yourself. It seems the general public has forgotten this and is always looking for someone to come in and save the day when something does not go their way.
Click to expand...

You really should read it through, you basically just echoed the post. Sure, the people that peruse these forums are smart enough to know things....yet everyone doesn't. A mother or a grandmother even. Not going to repeat what's already stated..but instead of slapping me on the wrist, you should really consider the points I bring across.

I do have a new question though. Why are people so eager to defend Google? What happens when YOU lose 50 bucks on things that seem kosher? I guaranteed 9/10 people who purchased emulators had any idea of the boundaries being crossed. Emulators are perfectly legal within certain rights. So, please read the thread. I just want some healthy conversation on the topic and for anyone further to realize, I am more frustrated because they don't tell you and leave no way to contact the developers. You just log in one day and it's gone.
 
amlothi said:
Let's say someone stole your car. The thief then turned around and sold it to someone else. The police find your car, and tell the new owner they need to take the car and return it to you. After all, it's yours. Isn't that the right thing to do?
Click to expand...

I missed this post.

The difference is, the police still come to you and take the car. They don't snag it in your sleep and have you wake up in the morning thinking someone stole your stolen goods. Also, the person who stole it will have to pay back the person in the end. Not a good analogy. :cool:
 
It's simple these are apps that are not obiding by the rules and regulations of he android market or they're operating illegally. The only compensation you could get is through the developers or distributors of the app which might aswell be impossible.

The android market has been too open for far too long it's only recently with all the attention that the android marketplace has been recieving with malware Google has finally dealt with it.

I do not agree with how Google runs the android market as I believe prevention is better then solving the problem after it happens but I'm not the one running a market netting millions every year for google and the developers.
 
nerdstaz said:
You really should read it through, you basically just echoed the post. Sure, the people that peruse these forums are smart enough to know things....yet everyone doesn't. A mother or a grandmother even. Not going to repeat what's already stated..but instead of slapping me on the wrist, you should really consider the points I bring across.

I do have a new question though. Why are people so eager to defend Google? What happens when YOU lose 50 bucks on things that seem kosher? I guaranteed 9/10 people who purchased emulators had any idea of the boundaries being crossed. Emulators are perfectly legal within certain rights. So, please read the thread. I just want some healthy conversation on the topic and for anyone further to realize, I am more frustrated because they don't tell you and leave no way to contact the developers. You just log in one day and it's gone.
Click to expand...

I actually did read 100% of what you posted. I didn't read everyone else's (say 75%) so I was stating that in case I was repeating what someone else said. I am not defending Google at all. It is just not their responsibility to do what you want them to do. I am sure it is all stated in the legal papers what they are responsible to provide. I am sure that you didn't read them, I didn't read them, and almost everyone else didn't either. But the fact remains that those apply to you and everyone else that agreed to use of the market.

I am not slapping you on the wrist at all. I understand a lot about your generation as I am only in my 30s myself and have two teenage children. It is becoming more and more common for people to take no responsibility for their own actions and when they get upset they want some one else to fix it. You lost a little bit of money. It sucks, but I bet you are going to be more careful who you by from in the future and it will be less likely to happen to you again. How do you think people feel about buying something for much more money and then getting abandoned by the company. Think about housing developers that closed without warning, automobile manufacturers going out of business, and so on. This is just a $5 app made by some person probably out of their bedroom. Even if you got their contact info they are not going to refund you because they got kicked off the market. They are having bigger problems than you since they got kicked off and now have nowhere to sell what they spent time and money to develop. I DO understand your frustration. What I am trying to tell you is that there is absolutely nothing you can do but be more critical of who you give money to in the future.
 
nerdstaz said:
I missed this post.

The difference is, the police still come to you and take the car. They don't snag it in your sleep and have you wake up in the morning thinking someone stole your stolen goods. Also, the person who stole it will have to pay back the person in the end. Not a good analogy. :cool:
Click to expand...

What if the police stumble across the car in a parking lot while you're shopping? There's an excellent chance you'll leave the store, call the cops to report your car as stolen just to be told sorry, that wasn't your car, and could you please come in so we can interview you. Also, you'd have to file a lawsuit against the person who sold you the car to (if you're lucky) get your money back, the cops wouldn't show up with a refund. In this case that's the equivalent of you contacting the app developer - not Google - and demanding your money back.

Also you said " While I imagined these could have been copyright infringing..." If we continue with the stolen car analogy that would put you in danger of being guilty of criminally receiving stolen goods.

I agree that it sucks that you spent money on these things and lost them, but it's not Google you should be mad at, it's the developers that knowingly put illegal apps on the market. Those developers just counted on not getting caught, not getting punished, and not being forced to refund what you paid them. Google has to play by the rules which means if they've distributed illegal apps they must do what they can to resolve their mistake, which includes taking it back out of the hands of buyers like you.
 
nerdstaz said:
I do have a new question though. Why are people so eager to defend Google? What happens when YOU lose 50 bucks on things that seem kosher? I guaranteed 9/10 people who purchased emulators had any idea of the boundaries being crossed.
Click to expand...

As they so often say 'Ignorantia juris non excusat' (Ignorance of the law does not excuse). For years millions of people where sharing copyrighted songs using Limewire, many of whom where blissfully unaware that they where doing anything illegal....until...

"LIMEWIRE IS UNDER A COURT ORDER DATED OCTOBER 26, 2010 TO STOP DISTRIBUTING THE LIMEWIRE SOFTWARE. A COPY OF THE INJUNCTION CAN BE FOUND HERE. LIMEWIRE LLC, ITS DIRECTORS AND OFFICERS, ARE TAKING ALL STEPS TO COMPLY WITH THE INJUNCTION. WE HAVE VERY RECENTLY BECOME AWARE OF UNAUTHORIZED APPLICATIONS ON THE INTERNET PURPORTING TO USE THE LIMEWIRE NAME. WE DEMAND THAT ALL PERSONS USING THE LIMEWIRE SOFTWARE, NAME, OR TRADEMARK IN ORDER TO UPLOAD OR DOWNLOAD COPYRIGHTED WORKS IN ANY MANNER CEASE AND DESIST FROM DOING SO. WE FURTHER REMIND YOU THAT THE UNAUTHORIZED UPLOADING AND DOWNLOADING OF COPYRIGHTED WORKS IS ILLEGAL."

To use another analogy from something I posted earlier.

http://www.snes9x.com/journal.asp
"Second, and more importantly, we’d like to clarify the Snes9x license. It has come to our attention that several people have auctioned off Snes9x and ROMs on Ebay."

Supposedly you buy a CD with an emulator and copyright infringing games from Ebay, you lose or damage that CD and you did NOT make a backup. You can't really go to Ebay or the vendor asking for a refund or a replacement. Is Google any different in this respect?

nerdstaz said:
Emulators are perfectly legal within certain rights.
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As indeed they are. There are quite a few SNES emulators in the Android Market, as well as many other games console and old computer emulators. Presumably all of which comply with relevant licenses, and do NOT include games and ROMs which infringe copyright.

BTW some emulators in the Market do include copyrighted ROMs, e.g. Sinclair Spectrum emulators. Where the copyright holders have given express written permission that their ROMs can be distributed with non-commercial emulators, i.e. they MUST NOT be sold.

The fact that you may actually own a physical copy of a copyright game, only might give you entitlement to legally play it on an emulator. It does NOT entitle anyone to give copies away, or sell copies for monetary gain. Which was what happened with those illegal emulator APKs.
 
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