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AT&T to begin charging iPhone users who tether..
- Thread starter kevbo
- Start date
RoboMonkey
Android Expert
As a Fee?
Yea he assumes that the market don't accept the fee for tethering yet they have for a while now
Feel free to disagree while offering no evidence to support your position.
As evidence of my position that the market won't accept tethering I would point out the following.
AT&T used to charge $60 (or once even more) for tethering.
Now they charge $20 for it.
The change in price is evidence that they partially understand that the market won't accept them charging a fee for nothing. Yes, a fee for NOTHING. They're not giving me more capacity on their network, and they're not giving me additional hardware. They're just saying I have their blessing to use the phone I already paid for and the bandwidth I already paid for in a way that I like. I say I don't need their blessing to use what I already paid for.
In an attempt to give legitimacy to the $20 tethering, they bundle it with an additional 2 GB of data.
But I don't need the additional 2 GB. They're forcing me to buy additional data I don't need in order to use the data I already paid for in a particular way that happens to be useful.
Since you support this tethering, you should not have any problem with your electricity utility wanting to sign you up for a $20 / month "TV viewing" plan that allows you to use the electricity you paid for to watch TV. If you disagree with it then you are just one of those freeloaders who feels entitled to something for nothing. After all, the electric utility had to invest significantly in building their network. I could insultingly repeat back to you that you don't understand basic economics and should take economics 101.
You also argued that electricity is a necessity but tethering is not a necessity. I would argue that maybe electricity is a necessity, but TV watching is not a necessity. So again using your very own arguments, why should you be willing to pay for a "TV viewing" plan for the low low price of only $20 / month.
The reason is what I'm saying. Because in this hypothetical, the electric utility is wanting you to pay something for nothing. So to add legitimacy to it they could say, that the TV viewing plan also comes with an extra XX number of kilowatt hours per month. So how can you argue with that? In fact, I would be happy to accept your $20 / month payment for the "TV viewing" plan that enables you to use some of your electricity to watch TV.
Do you think the market would accept the electric utility offering a "TV viewing" plan that give you permission to use the electricity you already paid for to watch TV?
I don't think it would. And I don't think it will accept tethering either. And as evidence I note how AT&T has recently changed the pricing of tethering and attempted to make it seem more legitimate.
Again, feel free to disagree without ever once offering evidence or refuting any of my arguments at all. Feel free to offer insults and accuse me of anything because I believe tethering is nothing but a scam. Say I'm feeling "entitled". Whatever.
I'm sorry you feel that way.
It seems you should be able to easily expose my illogic and point out any incorrect assumptions.
Unfortunately, you never seem to reply to any of the actual substance of the argument. Instead you always resort to saying things about me personally rather than about tethering.
Your assumptions are based on right and wrong. The problem with this is that is not how the free market works. Until there is people who will pay for a service they will charge. Same thing as when people complained about the extra fees for sms. There was even a lawsuit guess.what happened. Fees changed and they got around it with the bundle pricing. I have true to tell you just because you feel its wrong doesn't make it bad or illegal business and until it is it won't go away
Your analogy only works some of the time...what about all you can eat buffets (or similar instances) do they let you bring your whole family and just pay once? No they charge a share plate fee...how is this different?
its not he just feels that he deserves to do whatever he wants with AT&T's bandwidth. He doesnt seem to get that its not HIS! the phone he owns is but the network, data, voice, mms , sms etc is owned by AT&T and they charge what the market allows
I'm not sure I understand your question.
I'm not saying I want to share my bandwidth with anyone else. It's just me using bandwidth I paid for on a phone I paid for. (The fact that I use a laptop is irrelevant.)
I have a question. Doesn't tethering in essence chew through more bandwidth in a smaller period of time due to the nature of which it's delivered? I mean... if I were to be in a 3g zone, and had my laptop tethered to my phone, and wanted to stream 5 youtube videos, I technically could, right? In essence, if I were to use the same phone, UN tethered, would I be able to stream 5 youtube videos at once? (All playing simultaneously).
It's just a general question.... I thought this was the fact of which why companies charge for tethering.. people are more apt to go over in bandwidth allotment on a tethered device (most commonly a laptop or tablet) aren't they? I'm not looking to get flamed here.. it's just a question.
As far as the TV analogy... I guess if I were to use a 15'' TV to watch my shows for 3 hours, and then I were to watch the same amount of shows for 3 hours on a 60'' TV... I would use MORE electricity, wouldn't i? Just throwing it out there.
It's just a general question.... I thought this was the fact of which why companies charge for tethering.. people are more apt to go over in bandwidth allotment on a tethered device (most commonly a laptop or tablet) aren't they? I'm not looking to get flamed here.. it's just a question.
As far as the TV analogy... I guess if I were to use a 15'' TV to watch my shows for 3 hours, and then I were to watch the same amount of shows for 3 hours on a 60'' TV... I would use MORE electricity, wouldn't i? Just throwing it out there.
Please don't misquote me.
I feel that I deserve to do whatever I want with MY bandwidth. Not AT&T's bandwidth. I pay hard earned money for that bandwidth. It's mine. I paid for it.
AT&T charges a fee for bandwidth and I pay that fee.
It is my bandwidth just like it is my phone hardware.
You seem to think that once I buy something from AT&T that it is still theirs.
Edit: add . . .
I pay for a certain amount of bandwidth and then use that bandwidth. It's none of AT&T's business how I use that bandwidth.
Again, you never actually address the substance of my arguments why it's okay for me to use what I paid for.
Thank you for having an actual point to make.
You make a very good point.
My answer is that AT&T controls (and rightfully should be able to control) the upload / download rates. So if I watch five YouTube videos and it reaches the limit on download rate, some (or all) of those videos aren't going to play properly.
AT&T should limit download rate, IF (and only if) it is affecting network congestion. After all it is important that they keep the network operational for all of their customers.
That said, it is also important that they build out their infrastructure to support what is needed by customers. And they rightfully should charge enough for bandwidth to pay for building that network. And I'm happy to pay for it. But it is none of their business what is in my packets, or what the source or destination of those packets are.
That's what the broadband providers said when they wanted to charge you more if you had a router on the end of the cable/DSL modem.
However, that quickly died as soon as the ISP's realized they have no way to really control it.
I paid for an unlimited data plan. It's my business what I use my unlimited data for. If I use it for TOR, that's my business. If I use it for copyright infringement, that's my business. If I use it to give my tablet internet access while mobile, that's my business.
I paid for an unlimited data plan.
If I paid for a 2GB/month plan, then it's my business what I use my 2GB for, and how I use it.
Just like my broadband at home. I pay for 1Mb/768Kb pipes. It's my business what I use my pipe for.
All of the providers will come around. They tried this before with home broadband, wanting to charge you double rates if you shared the connection with 2 PC's at home.
It's just a matter of time before the mobile data carriers figure out people will pay extra for tiered speeds, but not more just based on how they use their bandwidth.
The only last statement I would have to make then... is that maybe at&t is basing the charges off the majority who wouldn't possibly monitor how much data they're using. Judging from what I have observed, most of the general public using smartphones these days are still learning about the internet, and how much bandwidth is how much bandwidth. Most of the people I speak with or sell smartphones to don't know the difference between a kb or Mb.... they just know they want the internet. And rightfully so. Just like a person who buys a car most likely won't know the specifics in how it goes, just that it goes. The car enthusiasts or mechanics would know how it runs. Internet savvy / Tech savvy would know how much a kb or Mb is... but the general population wouldn't need to know... they just know how to use it. Is it possible that the majority of people who tether most commonly go over the amount of bandwidth allowed per month without knowing?
I know you would know when to stop or how to limit yourself, but a lot of people are still learning. A lot of people I speak with think that the ability to tether allows them to use their cell phone's internet as a main internet source... (especially in places where landline internet services aren't always available). That being said, could you imagine the amount of bandwidth that would be chewed through in a month by a couple using a single cellular device every day for their main internet connection? That could become quite the problem as more and more people learn how to tether and want the mobility of it... especially when speed is becoming more and more of non-issue with the widening scope of 3g and soon 4g/lte. Not saying it for certain, but I think a HUGE number of people will try ditching land line carriers for wireless ones, for sake of 1 bill, and mobility.... not realizing the caps imposed on them.
I agree. Further, I provided some evidence that it is already happening.
Another excellent point. There is consumer confusion about "how much data should I buy?". That is a difficult marketing problem for any ISP. Similarly people buying a USB Thumb drive or SD card wonder "should I buy the 1 GB or the 4 GB?". One way that is been addressed is the packaging for the USB thumb drive or SD card has labeling suggesting how many photos, songs and pictures a given capacity can hold. One way AT&T could sell their current plans is that 250 MB is for light internet usage and no streaming of music or video. 2 GB is for if 250 MB is not enough. And if you go over, you only pay $10 per extra GB used -- which is not a lot. And finally, provide tools so a user can monitor their usage, and send the user a text when they approach their limit.
Using your car analogy, people don't know how a car works, they would wonder how much horsepower do I need? How much gasoline should I buy? But since we all deal with this everyday, it becomes common knowledge. Similarly, in ten years everyone will know how many GB worth of data they should buy.
I very carefully monitor how much bandwidth I use. I've never gone over. (In fact, I've never even come close.) And if I needed to go over, I would be more than happy to pay the $10 per GB charge for going over.
I have also met people who think of wireless as simply an alternative way to get Internet service somewhere that broadband is not available. Maybe they should consider there is a reason why broadband is not available in their area.
I have addressed it 1 million times its not YOUR bandwidth its ATT YOU ARE JUST PAYING FOR THE RIGHT TO USE IT AS THEY ALLOW!!!! you keep saying my bandwidth its not yours!!!
It's actually my bandwidth, once I paid for it... Kinda like a rented apartment: It's mine as long as I keep current with my rent. My landlord can't come into my apartment and dictate what I can and can't do if I have not invited him/her in.
That's an incorrect analogy. When you rent an apartment in your lease it tells you what you can and can't do with your apartment. Same as your bandwidth with your telecom company. The apartment is actually never yours you are paying for the right to stay there and utilize it. Same as your bandwidth your paying for the ability to use it within your contractual terms. So yea you don't own either
The analogy seemed pretty reasonable to me.
Your lease does tell you what you can and cannot do. But there are reasonable limits on what the landlord can impose as conditions.
Tethering is like the landlord telling you that there is an extra $20 / month fee if you want to read expensive books. After all, the landlord thinks you have enough money that you'll just fork it over for no reason. What kind of books a renter reads is none of the landlords business. The landlord has a right to protect his rented property, but reading books does not stress the property in any way and has zero cost to the landlord.
Tethering is just using the bandwidth you've already paid for. There is no reason there should be any additional fee for using what you've already paid for. You fail to give any reason why there should be a cost for doing something that has zero cost to AT&T.
No that's incorrect tethering is like your landlord saying you can paint your walls but any other modifications we will have to charge you. Your wall and the paint is included in the agreement but if you do anything beyond that there will be a fee
I'm not making any modifications to any AT&T property. So how exactly is it like that?
Yes you are. The bandwidth is their property they own it. If they tell you this allotment can not be used for tethering unless you purchase this and you do it anyway that is making a modification to your usage arrangement with the company. Basically a breach of contract
The bandwidth is mine. I paid for it.
You're just back to arguing that the electricity company owns the electricity I paid for and they should be able to tell me how I can use that electricity because it's theirs (even though I paid for it).
You're just back to arguing that the water company owns the water I paid for and they should be able to tell me how I can use that water because it's theirs (even though I paid for it).