Calling All Grammar Nazi's

[AliLand]

Despite a good university education in addition to pedantic teachers throughout high school, I was never taught English grammar.
My first day teaching Greek kids English had me running home to read book after book of grammar rules
Nowadays, I teach proficiency. This means 'approaching the level of an educated native speaker'. This is of course a joke, as native speakers do not learn their own grammar. I usually teach writing and speaking, but obviously grammatical mistakes need dealing with. While I believe that language is a tool, thus if the meaning is understood it has done its job, it is still important to aim to use it properly. I rarely tell students usage in incorrect, more often describing 'poor' grammar as unnatural, awkward, confusing or ambiguous. Fortunately the essay skills I teach are very formal, so its a bit easier for me.
My pet hates:
1) gonna and wanna are not real words. Try explaining this to foreign teenagers, they assume I have a poor vocabulary or that I'm being overly pedantic as they see and hear words like this everywhere.
2) comers. When you mark around 20 essays a day with and average of six comers between them, you really miss them.
3) can / may. I teach my students 'may I go to the bathroom?' only to have them teased for overt politeness by other teachers.
4) Over correction of foreigners. I'm an English teacher, swapping between British and American lessons confuses me, and I study this subject. Examples such as - The team is/are- to take/have a bath. If you understand, why complain?
5) and my pet hate? Non English people correcting me! I speak clear Queens English, I wouldn't dream of telling Americans they are mispronouncing our shared language, however, non native speakers, who have been taught by Americans, frequently correct me. Drives me mad.

I didn't include double negatives, as I often quite enjoy the change of meanings.

 

[mikedt]

Despite a good university education in addition to pedantic teachers throughout high school, I was never taught English grammar.
My first day teaching Greek kids English had me running home to read book after book of grammar rules
Nowadays, I teach proficiency. This means 'approaching the level of an educated native speaker'. This is of course a joke, as native speakers do not learn their own grammar. I usually teach writing and speaking, but obviously grammatical mistakes need dealing with. While I believe that language is a tool, thus if the meaning is understood it has done its job, it is still important to aim to use it properly. I rarely tell students usage in incorrect, more often describing 'poor' grammar as unnatural, awkward, confusing or ambiguous. Fortunately the essay skills I teach are very formal, so its a bit easier for me.
My pet hates:
1) gonna and wanna are not real words. Try explaining this to foreign teenagers, they assume I have a poor vocabulary or that I'm being overly pedantic as they see and hear words like this everywhere.

I call those informal Americanisms for spoken and not formal written English. I've heard American ESL teachers use them. "I wanna tell ya.", "I'm gonna do something..."

In fact it actually says in the Oxford Advanced Learner's English-Chinese Dictionary and I quote...."You should not write this form unless you are copying somebody's speech."

This dictionary is one of the standard references we use for teaching English in China.

Looking through some of the textbooks I've got on the desk here...Spoken English (elementary) by STZL of Beijing...and it has...

a. Want do you want to do today?
b. I wanna go out.

2) comers. When you mark around 20 essays a day with and average of six comers between them, you really miss them.

"comers"? Commas isn't it? these things... , , , , , , When marking essays I often miss them myself.

3) can / may. I teach my students 'may I go to the bathroom?' only to have them teased for overt politeness by other teachers.

Not come across that one in China. I think "can" and "may" are interchangeable, as long as a very important adverb is added...."please" e.g. "May I go to the restroom please?" or "Can I go to the restroom please?"...and I insist on "please" as well.

4) Over correction of foreigners. I'm an English teacher, swapping between British and American lessons confuses me, and I study this subject. Examples such as - The team is/are- to take/have a bath. If you understand, why complain?

Sounds to me like they're being overly pedantic. But I don't know what they expect in Greece, I've only taught in China.

5) and my pet hate? Non English people correcting me! I speak clear Queens English, I wouldn't dream of telling Americans they are mispronouncing our shared language, however, non native speakers, who have been taught by Americans, frequently correct me. Drives me mad.

We don't do Queen's English in China(except for Hong Kong). Most of the textbooks and audible materials use American English. With a few exceptions like "railway" not "railroad", "railway station" not "train station" or "railroad station". Correct usage of the possessive apostrophe is something I often have to deal with.

I'm British myself, but I don't think I use Queen's English, probably more a mixture of Merseyside, London(not Cockney) and Bristolian. Because those were the areas I lived when growing up. Also watching Sesame Street and The Electric Company when I was a kid, I'm sure that helped me appreciate American English. Thank you Children's Television Workshop (CTW) for part of my education.

I know of a teacher here, he's a British national, who insists on Queen's English. He's actually been rejected by some state schools, because they want American English. I have no problems with that myself.

There's many ESL teachers from India trying to get teaching positions in China, and many of the better schools just do not want them because of their dialect. So they often have to go and work in the poor areas. I knew of an Australian teacher who had difficulties, because the students couldn't understand his dialect.

 

[davoid]

When I was teaching English my policy on words like "wanna" was that if a learner asked me I would explain its common usage so that they had a realistic understanding of the language but I would emphasise that it was informal language, so that they could avoid inappropriate use.

You don't wanna use language like that in a job application for example.

 

[Dngrsone]

On the other side of the podium (I was an instructor, but not in English), I had a few tussles with my American English professors over my tendency to use British spellings at times.

I successfully argued that 'theatre' and 'spectre' have entirely different vibes than 'theater' and 'specter', and that these nuances make a difference in the art of writing.

 

[SueDNim]

Lists where some items end with a period or other punctuation mark, yet other items end with nothing...

Guilty as charged. I did it on one list item because it included commas, and it bugs me to use internal punctuation without a period at the end. When it happened again, I forgot the period, or else I was thinking too hard about the content to bother proofreading.

 

[zuben el genub]

If both spellings are in the OED - Screw 'em. Use whichever.

 

[Dngrsone]

If both spellings are in the OED - Screw 'em. Use whichever.

Unfortunately, my English professor insisted on using Daniel Webster's brainchild exclusively.

 

[MoodyBlues]

I think "can" and "may" are interchangeable, as long as a very important adverb is added...."please" e.g. "May I go to the restroom please?" or "Can I go to the restroom please?"...and I insist on "please" as well.

When my daughter was a child and said something like, "Can I watch this show now?", I'd reply, "I don't know. CAN you?! Do your eyes work? " Then, of course, she'd respond with " MAY I?! " Then we'd both :laugh: and go on with whatever we were doing.

 

[SiempreTuna]

.. but if she's been sent to bed or you watch a different TV show, then it isn't possible for her to watch so she can't watch :vroam:

 

[davoid]

If a child is refused permission to do something after asking "can I do so-and-so?" then they CAN'T do it without incurring a consequent punishment.

 

[Stuntman]

Here's a link about the proper use of the word, "whom." How and why to use whom in a sentence - The Oatmeal

 

[MoodyBlues]

Here's a link about the proper use of the word, "whom." How and why to use whom in a sentence - The Oatmeal

Thanks for this, Stuntman! I'm never quite sure how to explain the whole who vs whom thing; this link does the trick.

 

[Member243850]

The Spelling Nazis thread is elsewhere, this is for Grammer Nazi's.

Hahaha!

It is DELIGHTFUL at laughing at other people's pain, suffering and (dare I leave it out!?!? ) MISERY!

Ahhhh it is so refreshing hey!

And misery likes company!



I see the wanna be Grammar NAZIS thread (and NOT "Nazi's" - I did not know grammar belonged to them darn crazy Nazis! ) has still yet to been renamed!

Should be called:

Calling all grammar NAZIS!

Ahhh yes the failure to communicate is STRRRRONG with this 1!

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Ahhh it gives me GREAT pleasure to laugh at other people's pain!

Let's start a party!

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Think twice?

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Hahahaha never!

I am on a roll!

I am on a roll!

You guys need to read up on this right over here.

Do not pass go.

Do not collect 200 Yankie Dollars!

bwhahahaa!

Apostrophes | Punctuation Rules

 

[davoid]

Here's a link about the proper use of the word, "whom." How and why to use whom in a sentence - The Oatmeal

That's a very good explanation, especially the part that emphasises the "m" at the end of the words.

However I think the pictures are the wrong way round in the first section.

The second picture (with the man flexing his muscles) should be labelled as the one of someone doing something, and the first picture (of the man being poked) should be the one labelled as someone having something done to them.

 

[davoid]

I see the wanna be Grammar NAZIS thread (and NOT "Nazi's" - I did not know grammar belonged to them darn crazy Nazis! ) has still yet to been renamed!

Should be called:

Calling all grammar NAZIS!


Apostrophes | Punctuation Rules

Thanks for the apostrophes linky stinky but I know that plurals don't have apostrophes. I put it in the title on purpose so that this exact conversation could ensue. It's a honey pot to lure in grammar nazis like yourself.

I resisted putting an apostrophe in nazis just then and I didn't capitalize the word especially for your delectation. Enjoy!

So I have no intention of renaming the title of the thread as yet because it has already generated several similar responses, but it is open for debate I suppose. Lol.

 

[Member243850]

Thanks for the apostrophes linky stinky but I know that plurals don't have apostrophes. I put it in the title on purpose so that this exact conversation could ensue. It's a honey pot to lure in grammar nazis like yourself.

I resisted putting an apostrophe in nazis just then and I didn't capitalize the word especially for your delectation. Enjoy!

So I have no intention of renaming the title of the thread as yet because it has already generated several similar responses, but it is open for debate I suppose. Lol.

Methinks The Sphinx Jinx STINKS!

I think i smell something ek se.......

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[MoodyBlues]

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What the heck is a 'stinky calongne'?!

 

[mikedt]

Stinky Cologne...is that when a German city has a problem with smelly drains and fatbergs blocking the sewers?

I do like stinky tofu though.

 

[SiempreTuna]

I do like stinky tofu though.

Stinky tofu

I've always maintained a pencil eraser is tastier than regular tofu so I can see why you'd want to do something .. I just really don't feel stinky is the way to go uke:

But rapidly revering to topic: recently saw "capable to do <x>". It's "capable of doing <x>".

 

[Kaat72]

This is a neat educational thread for non-native English or better yet American speakers

 

[davoid]

This is a neat educational thread for non-native English or better yet American speakers

Is a non-native American speaker anyone who turned up after Columbus?

 

[SiempreTuna]

This is a neat educational thread

Everyone needs to be told to avoid tofu - particularly when it stinks

non-native English or better yet American speakers

We like to do our bit for those not blessed with English as a mother tongue - particularly those in your second category

Is a non-native American speaker anyone who turned up after Columbus?

:laugh:

 

[EarlyMon]

Clearly you've only had bad tofu.

Most of what we get in America is laughable and evidently you've only had worse.

Tofu in Asia comes in a variety of flavors and textures - for example, one sample can't be easily distinguished from scrambled eggs while another has a rich, smoky flavor of roasted palm.

You are similarly informed about Americans but we're used to the attitude.

Our version of English is simply more fluid, adaptable and agile than your own.

Some, as in your country, lack English skills as a result of a wasted education.

The rest of us bend the language to suit our needs and desires, and we don't care to waste time.

If you're ever in Asia, try the tofu and if you're ever in the US, try the language.

Find out about what you've been missing.
Cheers.

 

[SiempreTuna]

I lived in Asia for 6 years: there a just more types of terrible with tofu there :tongue:

I have also spent time with the language in the US - fortunately, I'm bi-lingual :flute:

 

[EarlyMon]

I lived in Asia for 6 years: there a just more types of terrible with tofu there :tongue:

I have also spent time with the language in the US - fortunately, I'm bi-lingual :flute:

Thanks for clarifying - I understand the problem perfectly.

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