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Compaines laying off due to Obama?

I've heard it argued before that the everyone benefits economically from a populace with at least a high school education. I'd have to study it out to see if it's really true or not, but the premise makes sense to me.
 
A.Nonymous said:
I've heard it argued before that the everyone benefits economically from a populace with at least a high school education. I'd have to study it out to see if it's really true or not, but the premise makes sense to me.
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Universal Healthcare is very economically beneficial too, hence even many neo-liberal economists support it.

Apoplectic1 said:
Because you've likely benefited from local schools have you not?
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And everyone will likewise benefit from hospitals others have paid for, which is an excellent reason for everyone to have insurance.
 
ElasticNinja said:
And everyone will likewise benefit from hospitals others have paid for, which is an excellent reason for everyone to have insurance.
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If only it were that simple. School systems and health insurance are two vastly different beasts. There are nowhere near the costs, nowhere near the amount of liability you need to worry about, really no preexisting conditions to worry about in education.
 
Apoplectic1 said:
If only it were that simple. School systems and health insurance are two vastly different beasts. There are nowhere near the costs, nowhere near the amount of liability you need to worry about, really no preexisting conditions to worry about in education.
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In education there are a lot of people with special needs, for one thing.

As for your comment on spending, that is not really true. In Ireland, the state spends
 
Companies laying off due to Obama?

Well, the owners and CEO's will always make sure they get theirs. If operating costs increase, they will make their money and do whatever they need to do to make it. If the minimum wage increases or healthcare cost go up, your boss will decide to either increase fees for their product and/or decrease the number of employees they employ. Most could care less about the people it ultimately affects as long as they get theirs.

Is it due to Obamacare? Each case is different and it could be hard to throw a blanket over it and claim it is indeed from Obamacare. Could it also be a way for conservative business owners to send a message to employees (mainly Liberal employees) that any election CAN have an immediate affect on their life and sort of pay them back for electing Obama?
 
Apoplectic1 said:
Good for Ireland. One problem, Ireland only has about 6.5 million citizens, the US has over 314.5 million. The difference here will be MUCH larger.
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Not as a percent of GDP. Perhaps thats what I should have put my figures in.

Also Ireland has 4.5 million people, not sure where 6.5 comes from.
 
ElasticNinja said:
Not as a percent of GDP. Perhaps thats what I should have put my figures in.

Also Ireland has 4.5 million people, not sure where 6.5 comes from.
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Sure, as a percent it would be the same assuming we have more or less the same system, but it would still cost a total of a few trillion for the US to implement. Seeing how we are already several trillion dollars in debt, we cannot afford it.

A country cannnot get by without education, but it can without guaranteed healthcare.

I think the number I got includes citizens living outside of Ireland.
 
Apoplectic1 said:
Sure, as a percent it would be the same assuming we have more or less the same system, but it would still cost a total of a few trillion for the US to implement. Seeing how we are already several trillion dollars in debt, we cannot afford it.
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Well seeing as how it would save money, you certainly could.



Apoplectic1 said:
A country cannnot get by without education, but it can without guaranteed healthcare.
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Not very well, unfortunately.
 
Actually, the Supreme Court ruled that Obamacare is nothing more than a tax increase on everyone in America. The Congress has every right (legally) to raise taxes.
 
ElasticNinja said:
Well seeing as how it would save money, you certainly could.
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How do we know it will? Have you read the entire 10,000 page healthcare bill?

Supposedly it won't raise taxes at all, that they will cut funding to certain programs to fund healthcare, but short of cutting major programs like Social Security and Food Stamps entirely.
 
Apoplectic1 said:
How do we know it will? Have you read the entire 10,000 page healthcare bill?

Supposedly it won't raise taxes at all, that they will cut funding to certain programs to fund healthcare, but short of cutting major programs like Social Security and Food Stamps entirely.
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Oh god, I certainly dont think Obamacare will save much money. Likely would lead to increased efficiency, and slow the rate of increase, but it will do little to bring American healthcare costs and results in line with the rest of the Developed World.
 
saptech said:
Why am I forced to pay into the local school district? I do not have any kids! Can someone give me an answer?
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Well, you likely do benefit from the little one's education. We have Androids and iPhones because people were educated and went to school. I do see your point, however. You are trying to say you do not have kids so you should not be forced to pay for the education of other people.

I will suggest that you are not thinking things through.

Like the person that hates paying for our national highway system because he does not drive a car. Forgetting that a piss poor highway system means slower deliveries and higher costs for the tomatoes and coffee filters at your local Wally Mart.
 
Bob Maxey said:
Well, you likely do benefit from the little one's education. We have Androids and iPhones because people were educated and went to school. I do see your point, however. You are trying to say you do not have kids so you should not be forced to pay for the education of other people.

I will suggest that you are not thinking things through.

Like the person that hates paying for our national highway system because he does not drive a car. Forgetting that a piss poor highway system means slower deliveries and higher costs for the tomatoes and coffee filters at your local Wally Mart.
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I've thought it through. So wouldn't it apply if everyone have health insurance? A healthy community is good for the whole!

And for those that don't know, I do have kids (grown) and some bad ass grandkids too.
 
What are we, as a community, lacking because of our current health insurance set up?

I'll grant you that the healthcare system we have is completely jacked. No arguments there, but if you're going to make the argument that a healthy community is better, you've got to point to the impact we're feeling right now from the current system.
 
How many times does it have to be said? You are already paying for other peoples health care, when they go to the emergency room and can't pay. Which is the most expensive possible health care available. That is why you will benefit from everyone having insurance. 1.They will be able to go to a doctor for health care, which is much cheaper. 2.The hospitals won't be stuck with the bill for so many deadbeats.

A healthy community is cheaper. Again, you are already paying for them.
 
A.Nonymous said:
What are we, as a community, lacking because of our current health insurance set up?
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What are you, as a community, lacking due to the current lack of a functioning health system? Well:

  • 6-8% of GDP
  • 1-4 years of life expectancy (Putting the US 4-16 years behind in life expectancy gains)
  • Insurance for a double digit percentage of the population
  • Preventative care
  • Less worry and stress
  • Competitiveness
  • Quality of life on par with economic performance
 
Every ranking I've looked at has the US at #1 in the world in GDP usually with more than twice the number two (China). The only studies I've seen that rank the US at #2 are ones that lump the entire EU into one category.

As far as life expectancy you are right that the US falls about 4 years behind depending on what numbers you look at. How much of this is lack of healthcare and how much of this is the horrible, horrible diets most of us eat?

The lack of healthcare insurance causes a lack of healthcare insurance? Not sure what the point is.

What is the actual cost of people not having preventative care? What is the impact?

Less worry and stress? I call BS on that. People here are worried and stressed no matter what their healthcare situation is.

Competitiveness in what way? In what areas areas are we not competitive?

Quality of life? The US ranks #4 in the HDI according to the UN in 2011.
 
A.Nonymous said:
Every ranking I've looked at has the US at #1 in the world in GDP usually with more than twice the number two (China). The only studies I've seen that rank the US at #2 are ones that lump the entire EU into one category.
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You dont seem to understand GDP per capita. Also, I am referring to wasted productivity, not missing productivity.
 
A.Nonymous said:
You said GDP, not GDP per capita. Regardless, GDP isn't really suffering.
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Does it really matter whether its overall or per capita? Its still the same bloody percentage. GDP is not suffering, I never said it was. If GDP is taken as a measure of productivity, US workers are wasting hours a week toiling due to inefficiencies in US healthcare. Not only that, but debt (private and public), greenhouse gas emissions, etc etc are increasing and thus being wasted due to it.
 
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