Yes--but it's taken a while to get here. I can't exactly say I've been in denial, but I've been in sort of a twilight zone-ish place between denial and acceptance. I mean, I can talk to someone [like a doctor] and hear the appropriate words come out of my mouth regarding Mom's condition and its realities. But the rest of the time I've been in this state of refusing to accept it, and basically convincing myself that things will improve.I've seen enough elderly relatives and friends' parents go into declines like that. IME it usually means that death is around the corner. I trust that you're preparing as best as you can for that eventuality.
It's a great idea--and one that I had brushed off until two days ago. I met with a hospice coordinator at the hospital and he did a great job of filling me in on all the things they can do. One of Mom's doctors had suggested hospice care last summer, but I wasn't there yet. When I met with the coordinator the other day, I still wasn't QUITE there--I told him I needed to process everything and I'd get back with him. Today, I did. He's sending a nurse here tomorrow to do an evaluation and get services started. I still feel a bit like I'm signing Mom's death warrant, despite being reassured that acknowledging the need for additional help, as in hospice, doesn't equate to imminent death, but it feels that way. He even made it a point to say that they have about a 7-8% 'graduation from hospice' rate. So you never know.How about hospice care? Since there's no disease to treat, or to expect a recovery from, that seems like the best fit. Of course you're the one who knows best. I'm just putting out ideas.
That's understandable--you're in grief. Denial is one of the stages of grief, and none of us are immune to it. You're already getting past it. You can do me a favor by never beating yourself up over how you might have handled things differently.Yes--but it's taken a while to get here. I can't exactly say I've been in denial, but I've been in sort of a twilight zone-ish place between denial and acceptance...
The etymology of "hospice" doesn't have anything to do with death. I didn't know that when my mom had booked our lodging in a middle-eastern hospice. It freaked me out so much that I was ready to sleep in our rental car until she relented and got us rooms in a real hotel! It turned out that in that case, the hospice had no dying people, and was more like a hostel. I'll still take the hotel!I met with a hospice coordinator at the hospital and he did a great job of filling me in on all the things they can do...
...I still feel a bit like I'm signing Mom's death warrant, despite being reassured that acknowledging the need for additional help, as in hospice, doesn't equate to imminent death, but it feels that way. He even made it a point to say that they have about a 7-8% 'graduation from hospice' rate. So you never know.
Good on you for being brave and doing what needs to be done! You're also being a good example for me to follow when my decision time comes. Thanks, and best wishes! :knuddel:The hospice nurse left a little while ago. She was very nice--warm and upbeat--and I feel good about the decision to go ahead and start hospice care. It's still a tough mental transition to make, but it's time.
Thanks, Speed.That's understandable--you're in grief. Denial is one of the stages of grief, and none of us are immune to it. You're already getting past it. You can do me a favor by never beating yourself up over how you might have handled things differently.
Strange use of the word hospice!The etymology of "hospice" doesn't have anything to do with death. I didn't know that when my mom had booked our lodging in a middle-eastern hospice. It freaked me out so much that I was ready to sleep in our rental car until she relented and got us rooms in a real hotel! It turned out that in that case, the hospice had no dying people, and was more like a hostel. I'll still take the hotel!
It's tough. When the nurse was here this afternoon she wanted to start the morphine and also give Mom Ativan, and I refused on both counts. I'm not going to exacerbate Mom's death with narcotics, which she doesn't NEED right now and would only be used to make it easier on everybody AROUND her. No. Not going to happen. I was incredulous when the nurse suggested both, and I questioned the reasoning for each of them. She said "her respirations are at about 25 right now" for the morphine--and I said, well, morphine will SUPPRESS her breathing, so, no. And for the Ativan she said "it'll make her less anxious," to which I said "SHE'S ASLEEP. How much less anxious can she be?!"Good on you for being brave and doing what needs to be done! You're also being a good example for me to follow when my decision time comes. Thanks, and best wishes! :knuddel:
As I found out the hard way, "hospice" only seems to have the grim connotations here in the US of A. In most of the world, it's a common term for forms of lodging that predate the commercial hotel.Strange use of the word hospice!
Good call on the meds. It looks like that nurse was more interested in making her own life easier than anything else. I hope that's the exception, not the norm!It's tough. When the nurse was here this afternoon she wanted to start the morphine and also give Mom Ativan, and I refused on both counts. I'm not going to exacerbate Mom's death with narcotics, which she doesn't NEED right now and would only be used to make it easier on everybody AROUND her. No. Not going to happen. I was incredulous when the nurse suggested both, and I questioned the reasoning for each of them. She said "her respirations are at about 25 right now" for the morphine--and I said, well, morphine will SUPPRESS her breathing, so, no. And for the Ativan she said "it'll make her less anxious," to which I said "SHE'S ASLEEP. How much less anxious can she be?!"
It's tough. When the nurse was here this afternoon she wanted to start the morphine and also give Mom Ativan, and I refused on both counts. I'm not going to exacerbate Mom's death with narcotics, which she doesn't NEED right now and would only be used to make it easier on everybody AROUND her. No. Not going to happen. I was incredulous when the nurse suggested both, and I questioned the reasoning for each of them. She said "her respirations are at about 25 right now" for the morphine--and I said, well, morphine will SUPPRESS her breathing, so, no. And for the Ativan she said "it'll make her less anxious," to which I said "SHE'S ASLEEP. How much less anxious can she be?!"
As soon as the nurse left I asked my good friend Google for info on dying patients, morphine, etc., and guess what I found? TONS of comments from people whose loved ones were drugged to death. My mom has NOTHING wrong--it's not like she is dying from bone cancer or some other horrible, painful disease. She's just old, and ended up at this point by refusing to do her exercises. Long story, but a fall landed her on bed rest, and afterward she REFUSED to do the exercises prescribed, so it started a downward, very VICIOUS cycle of inactivity, weakness, more inactivity, more weakness, etc., until she finally ended up confined to bed 24/7, unable to even keep herself in a sitting position. That's why I knew instantly when she was choking that there was no way I could position her AND keep her in position to do the Heimlich maneuver.Good call on the meds. It looks like that nurse was more interested in making her own life easier than anything else. I hope that's the exception, not the norm!
Honey, you're looking at her. It didn't seem real, though, until last week when I had to take the documents to the hospital. I have both Power of Attorney (for financial and personal matters) and Durable Power of Attorney for Health Care. After I left the hospital I went to Chase and Bank of America to file the papers there, too. I had put that off for two years, but since the documents were in the car with me anyway...and Mom was in the hospital...I figured maybe NOW would be a good time to do it.Has your mom set up a living will and/or appointed someone as medical attorney?
Thanks. My mom has been saying for quite a while now that she wishes she were dead. So my best friend asked me the other day if I had asked Mom if she's mad that I saved her life, and I hadn't, but I did after that! Mom said no, she's not mad.I'm really sorry to hear about your mother's predicament, but I'm glad she was saved.
Thanks. It makes me mad, too.This makes me angry. I'm so glad you refused.
That seems to be the pattern that my good buddy Google told me about. It's weird, you know, the hospice coordinator told me in the hospital that many times, once a patient starts hospice it's only two or three days before they die. I had heard that before, as well. Um, duh! Load them up on unnecessary, organ-suppressing narcotics and guess what you get? A dead patient.My Mum had cancer and once they administered morphine she went into a rapid decline.
I'm very sorry, both for your loss of your mother and not really getting to say goodbye.When my Dad called me and told me she was really bad I came, but it was too late. She was unconscious (or at least unable to open her eyes and talk; she may have been able to hear us) for the final week of her life, and I never got to say goodbye.
That seems to be the modus operandi. But I assure you it won't be in THIS house. Last night, after sobbing on the phone to my best friend, telling her that Mom had basically slept all day, and telling her about the nurse and the meds and all of it, I went to check on Mom. To my surprise she was sitting up, alert, watching TV, and wanting ICE CREAM!! (Actually she wanted pizza, but with the soft diet thing that's a no-go. So ice cream it was.) I sat with her for a couple hours, chatting, watching TV, giving her her antibiotic, giving her some more juice to drink, etc. If I had let the nurse dope her up as wanted, Mom would've been out cold.I really believe that some medical staff "help" seriously ill patients towards "release" to make everybody's lives easier, especially their own.
Good for you!My Mum didn't actually die of the lung cancer, but caught pneumonia. After she had died, I discovered some of the medication the nurses had been administering, and one of them, a supposed anti-emetic, had serious side-effects of producing fluid on the lungs and hindering respiration. I vented my spleen at the doctor and he just stood there looking embarrassed because he couldn't counter my accusation - maybe, in hindsight, because he knew I was grieving.
Thanks--they're going to have a tough time getting past me with those narcotics!I applaud your refusal to let them dope up your mom. You would have lost her all the sooner if you had. Make the most of her while you can.
...She's just old, and ended up at this point by refusing to do her exercises. Long story, but a fall landed her on bed rest, and afterward she REFUSED to do the exercises prescribed, so it started a downward, very VICIOUS cycle of inactivity, weakness, more inactivity, more weakness, etc., until she finally ended up confined to bed 24/7, unable to even keep herself in a sitting position...
My mom has been downright compulsive about getting exercise, and is still religious about doing her PT. She took a fall six weeks ago, and despite a broken toe and lots of bruising, the most she missed was 4 Sunday church services and a retirement party in the city. And most of that was weather related!Honey, you're looking at her. It didn't seem real, though, until last week when I had to take the documents to the hospital. I have both Power of Attorney (for financial and personal matters) and Durable Power of Attorney for Health Care. After I left the hospital I went to Chase and Bank of America to file the papers there, too. I had put that off for two years, but since the documents were in the car with me anyway...and Mom was in the hospital...I figured maybe NOW would be a good time to do it.
Thanks, Speed.
Strange use of the word hospice!
It's tough. When the nurse was here this afternoon she wanted to start the morphine and also give Mom Ativan, and I refused on both counts. I'm not going to exacerbate Mom's death with narcotics, which she doesn't NEED right now and would only be used to make it easier on everybody AROUND her. No. Not going to happen. I was incredulous when the nurse suggested both, and I questioned the reasoning for each of them. She said "her respirations are at about 25 right now" for the morphine--and I said, well, morphine will SUPPRESS her breathing, so, no. And for the Ativan she said "it'll make her less anxious," to which I said "SHE'S ASLEEP. How much less anxious can she be?!"
I'm very sorry, both for your loss of your mother and not really getting to say goodbye.
When I met with the coordinator the other day, I still wasn't QUITE there--I told him I needed to process everything and I'd get back with him. Today, I did. He's sending a nurse here tomorrow to do an evaluation and get services started. I still feel a bit like I'm signing Mom's death warrant, despite being reassured that acknowledging the need for additional help, as in hospice, doesn't equate to imminent death, but it feels that way.
It's weird, you know, the hospice coordinator told me in the hospital that many times, once a patient starts hospice it's only two or three days before they die.
Honestly, your Mom doesn't seem like she is ready for hospice care yet, being that she doesn't seem to be suffering or on the brink of dying. Good for you for standing up to the nurses, your Mom is lucky to have you. You may want to consider putting off hospice for awhile.
Good for her. That's how it should be for people our parents' age these days, you know? For almost two years I've been pointing out to my mom folks, like Betty White and Bob Barker, who are her age or older and are *BUSY* working their asses off. And every time I see or read about someone who's 100+ and still working or going to the gym, I tell her about them. It's like, look, if they can do THAT, surely you can do your bleeping exercises!My mom has been downright compulsive about getting exercise, and is still religious about doing her PT. She took a fall six weeks ago, and despite a broken toe and lots of bruising, the most she missed was 4 Sunday church services and a retirement party in the city. And most of that was weather related!
I understand probably not wanting to go into detail here, so don't, but I just want to say that you REALLY need to look into all this stuff now, before something happens. I have no idea how you were pushed out, or how bankers took advantage of her, but there MIGHT be recourse if you have time to get it done. I haven't gone into here at all but we had something really bad happen--my sister and her husband defrauded my mom out of her house--but we found out (it's a LONG, complicated story, which I'll skip!) and were able to reverse it before it became irrevocable. (Side note: My mom SHOULD have had them prosecuted for fraud, as I don't think $1 million worth of fraud is anything to sneeze at, but she chose not to. They're allowed no contact with her and I had them on the hospital's security list when Mom was there.)My worst fear about her is that she's in such good physical shape that her brain may go long before her body does. If and when that happens, I doubt that I'll have any financial power to execute her wishes. The bankers who took advantage of her the last time will no doubt force me out again.
Yeah, like I said, I'd been sitting on that for two years and only just filed the papers with Mom's banks last week, but only because they were already in the car with me. I just never wanted to take that step.You did well to get financial power of attorney!
You NEED to persist until you get some answers out of her. I can't stress strongly enough how things can change from one moment to the next, and how once you're in a crisis it's too late to figure all this stuff out. Try sitting down with her and starting off with something like, "Mom, I know this is difficult and perhaps uncomfortable for you to talk about, but..."After reading your story, I felt the need to ask my mom some questions today about what happens if she's no longer able to function in assisted living. And as usual, she put me off. Frustrating!
Would you feel comfortable explaining what happened?I have durable medical power of attorney, but when she had her breakdown I discovered the hard way that it's useless if someone else decides to take charge.
Our estate attorney is one of the best in SoCal, and very highly respected. We don't actually have him on retainer, but any time we need anything he's just a phone call away. He's even come to the house a few times.I hope you never have to face anything like that! But it's a good idea to have a lawyer on retainer before it can become a problem.
Sorry for your losses.My Mom and Dad both had hospice care at the end (Mom had brain cancer, Dad had lung cancer)
I know...it takes special people. Ironically, I've now been told by numerous hospice people that respite care is available for me--and *I* used to do respite care. In the '90s, while living in Dallas, I volunteered at an HIV/AIDS clinic; I was certified as an HIV/AIDS counselor, so I could, and did, give clients their test results; I also taught classes on HIV and AIDS; and I did respite care on weekends. (I used to be *SO* active, before damned illnesses made me a home body. ) So it's weird having people tell me about something, as if it's new to me, that I used to provide for OTHER people.and they were great, I don't know how anybody can do that job.
That's the distinct feeling I got the other night, and I'm so glad I refused both the morphine and Ativan.But I have heard the horror stories about the ones who just want to speed the death along.
Thanks, but no, she really is ready. In fact, one of her doctors brought it up some six months ago but I wasn't ready yet and didn't believe she was, either. Now...it's definitely time. Every single time I approach her room I think...oh dear...is this going to be THE time? You know, when I find her dead.Honestly, your Mom doesn't seem like she is ready for hospice care yet, being that she doesn't seem to be suffering or on the brink of dying. Good for you for standing up to the nurses, your Mom is lucky to have you. You may want to consider putting off hospice for awhile.
I know. I agree. Sort of.It seems like he is contradicting himself about her chances once entering the hospice.
No, unfortunately, it really is time.I agree with Gmash . Maybe you should think about it more.
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