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Finally some blunt honesty about 4.x

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ajdroidx said:
Once again, this has to do with the BLOAT and the SKIN the handset manufacturer has added to the device.

While (I believe) the iphone 3g can run iOS5, I think some stuff is missing from it, like siri for example.

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Lets talk computer hardware... right now I am running a i7-860 system for a desktop. There is not much else I can add to it as far as upgrades. Sure, perhaps a video card or more ram, but other then that, I feel as if I hit a wall. Any significant upgrades are going to pretty much require a complete overhall. I paid nearly 2 grand for this system when I built it a couple years ago. The problem? I guess it could be called fragmentation, but that is actually not quite the case, the same with smartphones. Its the way technology is moving. The chips intel now has out run on a 22nm process, while my i7-860 runs on a 45nm process. Yes, both chips will run pretty much anything I can personally through at them, but the ivy bridge has the intel graphics HD 4000 built right into the CPU.

I am vering off... so pretty much as far as smart phones are concerned:

They are computers. They are built on technology that is constantly progressing. The handset makers add their own software on top of the existing software. Oh, and politics (patents, licensing, etc)

As far as apple? They don't deliver that many updates either, aside from patches that require (the last time I checked) a 700mb file (the complete image) to download just so they could plug some hole some hacker exploited to jailbreak the device. Other then that, not many major updates.

If you want a phone that will get a couple updates over the course of your contract, that can "Handle" the next great software update, then:
A nexus device OR something you can easily hack into. Or an iPhone.

Sorry, thats the way it is. Technology moves forward, the hardware, the software etc. That old phone is NOT going to make them money. The new device is. Its like this even with apple. Hell, recent apple updates to its operating system is starting to leave owners of previous generations of devices out in the cold.

And, you don't need the latest software or hardware to have a working device. Sorry, you don't. I have a droid x that I am sure still works, if I would charge the battery and activate the line.

You wanted blunt honesty. There you go :)

Not trying to start anything with you, really. I do see your point. It sucks to see everyone around you getting updates and new functionality to their devices while you are stuck with a decrepit old brick (not calling your device that, just using that as an example). Its a bummer needing to shell out more money to get something that allows you to do more stuff. But its like that for pretty much everything tech. Tablets, computers, TVs, routers, etc. :)
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don't get me wrong, I'm not blind to how the tech industry moves. But I also don't think I'm being unreasonable to want a 16 month old phone to be maintained with timely updates for 2 years. What I am getting is an OEM (Motorola in my case, although I've heard the same gripes for most OEM's) who launched a phone in March 2011 without the most recent and already released android version, took half a year to patch that, and are currently 10 months behind the release of ICS (just an fyi, they did say it's compatible with ICS and will patch it. 10 months after the fact so far though).

Yes you're absolutely correct on your points and I agree with you. But I don't like it. I think it's awful service and experience from a consumer end. And it drives me around the bend to see people actually cheer the OEM's on for being this way, and some people practically backslap them and say "Great job on your q4 profits this year guys, I can't WAIT to hand you $500 for another phone in 18 months! You rock for dropping support on my current one so quickly!" Seriously? You're really ok with spending that much money to stay current? I'd never blow $500 every year and a half on any electronic device.

Yes I know it still works. But that still doesn't change the fact that they know they're going to upgrade a phone from last year, have confirmed it, and are dragging their heels to continue a financial turnover that benefits them FAR more than it does us.

I get it. Profit etc, I hear you. I get it. How about some damn customer service along with that profit folks? How about we stop apologizing for these companies and start demanding satisfying performance out of them? I said it before and I'll say it again: If the day ever comes that Google and MS start exclusively making their own hardware and leave their old OEM partners holding an empty bag, I'm going to be the first one to nail a happy face sign on their closed front doors.

edit: Just a note on all the PC comparisons: I can get a PC to last through approx 3-4 years worth of windows upgrades without touching the hardware. Furthermore, I can get the latest version of windows simply by driving 5 minutes down the road. Yes I have to buy it, and it costs me about $100 every 2 years without a contract. Windows 7 upgrade was included free for me with my Vista disc. An android upgrade to stay current without a contract would cost me about $500+ every 1.5 years.
 
omnius said:
... nearly a freakin year after it's out. Yet you appear to find this quite acceptable judging by how easy you find it to be dismissive about it.
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Yep. 100% acceptable. I could even have dismissed it easier with a post as short as this.

You seem to expect for free what any other OS users have to pay for. Then you complain that you're not getting as much free as you'd like. I don't understand the argument and no amount of you explaining will help.
 
SUroot said:
Yep. 100% acceptable. I could even have dismissed it easier with a post as short as this.

You seem to expect for free what any other OS users have to pay for. Then you complain that you're not getting as much free as you'd like. I don't understand the argument and no amount of you explaining will help.
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that's because you're deliberately trying to be arrogant:
I could even have dismissed it easier with a post as short as this.
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no amount of you explaining will help.
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Just so we're clear, you put words into my mouth just to make your "point" (for lack of a better word). I never claimed to want anything for free.

However, I'm also well aware that there is no debating with someone whose stated intention is to be rude and arrogant. Thank you for your contribution.
 
I'm not being rude or arrogant. I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion. You're now being rude however I'll put that down to your anger at your choice of phone.... and that is what this is.... choice of phone. NOTHING to do with android.

This argument is nothing to do with "android fragmentation" as it has been "packaged".

The fact is Google releases updated Android code. Some phones will no longer be able to handle that. Some will but the manufacturer will decide not to give you an update.... which is fine... no other platform would anyway. Its not contractual. Its not a right.

With dumb phones or feature phones, you weighed up the feature set. You weighed up the reports of build quality... past experiences.... you purchased based on that. Judy because the phone now has android, doesn't mean that has changed.

If you chose a phone from a manufacturer that can handle the OS but chose not to give you an update, surely you can see that your argument is with the manufacturer and not Google.

Granted, some devices are impossible to research. I don't even know what phone it is you have but you can chalk this up to experience that thus manufacturer would rather sell you a new phone than spend money developing new updates for your phone that will prevent them making money. Perhaps factor tgey in to your next purchase.

Manufacturers make phones to make money. Developing updates costs money. How much money should a company spend to ensure they can delay making more money. Its like investing in insolvency. Its counter intuitive to any business model.
 
SUroot said:
I'm not being rude or arrogant. I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion. You're now being rude however I'll put that down to your anger at your choice of phone.... and that is what this is.... choice of phone. NOTHING to do with android.
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Actually this has nothing to do with my phone and everything to do with customer service. Your definition of a good company policy and mine clearly differ. I don't see how I could not mistake it for anything but being arrogant when you happily informed me that not only do you find my point of view dismiss-able, but also that I am incapable of explaining it to you. I'm not being rude in pointing that out to you, I'm being rational.

This argument is nothing to do with "android fragmentation" as it has been "packaged".

The fact is Google releases updated Android code. Some phones will no longer be able to handle that. Some will but the manufacturer will decide not to give you an update.... which is fine... no other platform would anyway. Its not contractual. Its not a right.
Click to expand...

I never said it was a right, I said it would be a heck of an improvement to give me timely updates on a phone they admit can handle it for about 2 years. Not 6-12 months of delays and dragging heels. I dont think I'm being unreasonable at all, but you've already said you find this acceptable. Having said that, you're a ROM developer and rapidly changing phones are a playground for you. I'm simply a user.

With dumb phones or feature phones, you weighed up the feature set. You weighed up the reports of build quality... past experiences.... you purchased based on that. Judy because the phone now has android, doesn't mean that has changed.

If you chose a phone from a manufacturer that can handle the OS but chose not to give you an update, surely you can see that your argument is with the manufacturer and not Google.
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct, I thought I had made that clear earlier.

Granted, some devices are impossible to research. I don't even know what phone it is you have but you can chalk this up to experience that thus manufacturer would rather sell you a new phone than spend money developing new updates for your phone that will prevent them making money. Perhaps factor tgey in to your next purchase.

Manufacturers make phones to make money. Developing updates costs money. How much money should a company spend to ensure they can delay making more money. Its like investing in insolvency. Its counter intuitive to any business model.
Click to expand...

As I've said before, If the manufacturer is going to update it anyway, and have announced that they are doing so, then they're still spending the money. My beef is with them dragging their heels for so long about it. 10 months and still waiting. I realize they're doing it to try and get me to just buy another. But here's the rub: Now they've ticked me off and so if I buy another, it's not going to be from the company that already left a sour taste in my mouth. I'm quite confident some exec at Motorola is telling his peers that delaying ICS on the Spring 2011 phone will induce spending on a RAZR or Atrix HD. I beg to differ. In my case its going to induce spending on a Nexus not from Motorola.
 
MarcMaiden said:
I was listening to "TheVerge's" Mobile podcast when the said it best:


Google Nexus phones are Google experience devices - real android devices,

Samsung phones are Samsung experience devices that can run android apps - it's not android, it's Samsung, but can run Android apps.

Doesn't mean one is better than the other but it's a better way of thinking things. I am always tempted to switch to the S3 from the Nexus because I love the looks, design, camera, and hardware - It even has a great Dev community so I can get my stock android fix.....but there is something so special about owning a nexus devices...something so special indeed.
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9to5cynic said:
This is a good point. I'd image that the change from ICS to JB wouldn't be a huge leap in terms of OEM overlays. Not nearly as much so as the jump from GB to ICS would be.

I was in this same situation a few weeks ago.... the s3 looked like an awesome phone - spec wise. And feature wise too. But the nexus is just so nice. :D

Back to the comment about users being unaware of their version (and thus fragmentation), I think that's valid. No one in my family save me knows what version their phone is running. It's fine that way. They need a functioning device... I, on the other hand, want to know all the juicy details. ;D:smokingsomb:
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Could not agree more with the both of you. I have a GSM Galaxy Nexus because I decided the latest software was the most important thing to me. My husband, on the other hand, does not want to relearn everything. He resists updates like the plague. Turns out the GS3 is perfect for him, because Touchwiz is what he's used to.

The benefit to me is that I get my Nexus, and I get to play with the GS3 if I want to. :) It's a great phone, but for me it will always be a Nexus.
 
omnius said:
Actually this has nothing to do with my phone and everything to do with customer service. Your definition of a good company policy and mine clearly differ. I don't see how I could not mistake it for anything but being arrogant when you happily informed me that not only do you find my point of view dismiss-able, but also that I am incapable of explaining it to you. I'm not being rude in pointing that out to you, I'm being rational.

I never said it was a right, I said it would be a heck of an improvement to give me timely updates on a phone they admit can handle it for about 2 years. Not 6-12 months of delays and dragging heels. I dont think I'm being unreasonable at all, but you've already said you find this acceptable. Having said that, you're a ROM developer and rapidly changing phones are a playground for you. I'm simply a user.

Absolutely correct, I thought I had made that clear earlier.

As I've said before, If the manufacturer is going to update it anyway, and have announced that they are doing so, then they're still spending the money. My beef is with them dragging their heels for so long about it. 10 months and still waiting. I realize they're doing it to try and get me to just buy another. But here's the rub: Now they've ticked me off and so if I buy another, it's not going to be from the company that already left a sour taste in my mouth. I'm quite confident some exec at Motorola is telling his peers that delaying ICS on the Spring 2011 phone will induce spending on a RAZR or Atrix HD. I beg to differ. In my case its going to induce spending on a Nexus not from Motorola.
Click to expand...

Its not that you explicitly are incapable of explaining it. No one could explain it to me. That's not being arrogant. Its that the argument makes so little sense that it is inconceivable that even the most talented of spin doctors could get me to agree. That's only rude if you are actually a spin doctor. And if you are, well shame on you.

I hadn't dismissed your point of view until you accused me if dismissing it. THAT I found rude. ...then I felt you deserved the blase and facetious response that you got.

When you choose a phone, you choose the quality, customer service... everything... its a package.

I maintain that none of this is anything to do with android "fragmention". The thread title is a complete misnomer. Perhaps if it were titled "I bought a phone and I'm upset I'm not getting updates" id be more empathetic but the fact you are attacking the entire eco system that even makes any of this possible seems a little niaive.
 
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