First Car tuning, would like help.

[Nbgorman]

The cam wasnt that bad considering, the head where they rested was much much worse,and was melted past repair, unfortunately I did not take pictures of it, just the cam. Every thing else is in relatively good shape this week I am heading out to check out a junkyard head for $130, we will see if it is worth it.

 

[ZeroGeined]

Its a good insurance policy to have a local machine shop check it out after you get it just in case. Most junk yards will have a 30 day return policy so if your shop says it isn't any good, you can go back and pull another one.

 

[Nbgorman]

Cams/head

 

[CaseyGordon]

Nice to see that you have taken apart the Dodge engine by yourself. I take great pleasure in repairing and servicing my car as well and I have been taking information off the internet to aid me on this. You may also check out automotix. net/autorepair/diy/dodge-avenger-repair.html which has exclusive Dodge Avenger manuals and repair guides. All described with diagrams for major overhauling and rebuilding. I haven't gone that deep yet though.

 

[ZeroGeined]

Its not really that difficult with these engines considering. It can be quite an enjoyable experience if you're not pressed for time.

 

[Nbgorman]

Its not really that difficult with these engines considering. It can be quite an enjoyable experience if you're not pressed for time.

Agreed, but with this engine I have to say, they made the pluming of the engine unnecessarily complicated, it blows my mind seeing how they chose to place particular parts, not a problem since I will leave a lot of it out, just a pet peve.

 

[ZeroGeined]

What sort of modifications are you planning on for the engine?

 

[Nbgorman]

What sort of modifications are you planning on for the engine?

Currently? I WILL strip almost all of the interior carpeting[approx 15-20 lb.], the front and rear seats and replace the driver and passenger seats with sparco racing seats [ approx. 100-120 lbs.], floor mats [approx. 6 lbs], I am removing the A/C condenser, and compressor [approx. 40 lb.] I am going to remove sound deadening, and probably more as I get into it, I am going to grab a stainless header, and larger pipes, higher profile cams (im thinking stage 2), I am THINKING about replacing the pistons for higher compression ratio, with that in mind I might beef up the valve springs, and will go general porting, polishing, and a SOLID cleaning, I will also installing an msd ignition coil pack, with msd plug wires, then lowering the car about an inch, I am contemplating removing weight from the edge of the flywheel closest to its moment of inertia, and I know I am forgetting things, so I will keep you all updated on how this is going and progress I have made, I am heading out in about 20 minutes to take a look at that new head.

[EDIT] I didnt realize you were talking about the engine, whoops! lol

 

[ZeroGeined]

There's a few modifications that you have listed there that I'd actually recommend against. Granted I have an eagle talon, I'd actually recommend against the stripping of the interior just for the riding comfort. It actually does good for sound deadening, unless you're using this as a track car only, it'll drive you nuts. If its just to get up and go quicker on the road and still be a daily driver, don't do it. The work on the engine will be enough.
Depending on your location, leave the AC stuff in but don't put the belt on. You may be glad you left it.
Most of your engine mods sound good but I'd go with something other than the MSD coils. I've had my car for 3 years now and I'm on my forth one. The Super Conductor wires are nice and solid but the coils keep burning out on me and I've gone over everything and it all comes down to the coils.
If you're doing your flywheel, you might as well do the clutch too, and my transmission guy here (who is also a pro racer) says there isn't much that's better than Spec and they've got the whole package. www.specclutch.com

 

[Nbgorman]

There's a few modifications that you have listed there that I'd actually recommend against. Granted I have an eagle talon, I'd actually recommend against the stripping of the interior just for the riding comfort. It actually does good for sound deadening, unless you're using this as a track car only, it'll drive you nuts. If its just to get up and go quicker on the road and still be a daily driver, don't do it. The work on the engine will be enough.
Depending on your location, leave the AC stuff in but don't put the belt on. You may be glad you left it.
Most of your engine mods sound good but I'd go with something other than the MSD coils. I've had my car for 3 years now and I'm on my forth one. The Super Conductor wires are nice and solid but the coils keep burning out on me and I've gone over everything and it all comes down to the coils.
If you're doing your flywheel, you might as well do the clutch too, and my transmission guy here (who is also a pro racer) says there isn't much that's better than Spec and they've got the whole package. www.specclutch.com

I appreciate your input on leaving the interior in, and ac in, I am committed, being in northern Ohio, it doesnt normally get much above 90 and I prefer windows down, as for the sound I know how loud it will be (we have a 69 c/10 chevy with absolutely no sound deadener, and I love it) I saw that there are other ignition packs called Accel, I am not sure how well they work, I am going to look them up as soon as I post this.


[UPDATE]

The new head looks NEW!!! Old head was rust red on the inside from 150,000 miles, the new head is still bronze. The cams are good (However they will be tossed.) All the valves look great, but will still be lapped and seated. I am honestly not sure about the flywheel lightening, since I am running the 5 speed manual the clutch and clutch components weigh 4x more than the flywheel, and I am not sure if a new, lighter, performance clutch will be in my budget, I will see when I am finished with all of this how much money I have left. Until next time, keep driving.

 

[ZeroGeined]

Not a problem. I've heard that Accel is about par with the MSD but I've only heard positive about another one called the Screamin Demon. It does something like 45kV to the plugs and I'm planning on trying it out next time I change my coils which I imagine will be pretty soon. Lol.

Also, when I was on my computer I found the service manual for the engine that is all scanned into pdf if you (or anybody reading this) are interested. Just pm me and I'll shoot it off to you. No charge. Lol

 

[Nbgorman]

Not a problem. I've heard that Accel is about par with the MSD but I've only heard positive about another one called the Screamin Demon. It does something like 45kV to the plugs and I'm planning on trying it out next time I change my coils which I imagine will be pretty soon. Lol.

Also, when I was on my computer I found the service manual for the engine that is all scanned into pdf if you (or anybody reading this) are interested. Just pm me and I'll shoot it off to you. No charge. Lol

Thanks for the offer, but I have a full service manual already, and if you want I will try those screamin demon coils out, and see how they work. Also, if anyone wants a pair of stock 420A cams pm me and we can negotiate a price and I can get those to you, I would rather see them go to a good cause than to a junk yard. And speaking of computer, I am planning on cracking the ECU to raise the rev limiter, and more tiny tweeks, if anyone has experience on this that would be amazing! And if you ever need to find out something about your engine, check out "dsmtuners.com" they have an amazing forum section, I havent made an account on there because they seem to just deal with the the Eclipse. BUT if you have a question about possible engine troubles, check them out they have a surprisingly large 420A community.

 

[ZeroGeined]

I would also recommend 2GNT.com. They're more for the non turbo 420A engines. Dsmtuners generally have more of a "just boost it"/"drop it and get a 4g63" attitude but 2gnt doesn't care how you treat your car as long as you do it right.

Can't believe I didn't think of that one sooner. Lol

As for the coils, that one is entirely up to you, but if you decide to go that way, it'll be cool to get another opinion on it.

And good luck with that ECU. I've opened up 3 non turbo ECUs and they're all filled with some kind of shock/water resistance gel. Let me know if your find am easy east to get that out.

 

[Nbgorman]

I would also recommend 2GNT.com. They're more for the non turbo 420A engines. Dsmtuners generally have more of a "just boost it"/"drop it and get a 4g63" attitude but 2gnt doesn't care how you treat your car as long as you do it right.

Can't believe I didn't think of that one sooner. Lol

As for the coils, that one is entirely up to you, but if you decide to go that way, it'll be cool to get another opinion on it.

And good luck with that ECU. I've opened up 3 non turbo ECUs and they're all filled with some kind of shock/water resistance gel. Let me know if your find am easy east to get that out.

I Imagine as long as it is disconnected you can wash it out with water (Sounds bad I know) but rinse and clean it out then put it in some rice for a few days, just like with a phone to get any and all water out of it, from then on you might be able to do what you need.

 

[ZeroGeined]

Actually, if you get the gel out and want to clean it, use isopropyl alcohol. I use it for cleaning motherboards and video cards. By the time I get new thermal paste on and tighten all screws down, its all long evaporated and safe to plug in.

How's everything going for the engine so far?

 

[Nbgorman]

Actually, if you get the gel out and want to clean it, use isopropyl alcohol. I use it for cleaning motherboards and video cards. By the time I get new thermal paste on and tighten all screws down, its all long evaporated and safe to plug in.

How's everything going for the engine so far?

Very good idea, and since I am at my moms I havent worked on the engine in about a week, I have a feeling tomorrow will be a good work day, as I said before the new head which HAD to be replaced got replaced, the crankshaft will probably need regrinded just to stay on the safe side, I have been trying to work out a deal with a guy on an Avengers forum to obtain a turbo (albeit small) but I am just not sure how I am going to be able to fit the fuel pump, turbo, innjectors, new manifold, and more stuff in a 2 grand budget, I am not totally sure what all NEEDS replaced so until I am practically finished with the car I am not sure what I am going to do about it. Also with regards to the exhaust manifold, we decided to not go SS and to instead get a good old steel header which is ceramic coated, might or might not wrap it depending on how crazy I m feeling. I am anticipating over 200lbs of weight shed from the car before I am done with it, until then keep driving.

 

[ZeroGeined]

Very good idea, and since I am at my moms I havent worked on the engine in about a week, I have a feeling tomorrow will be a good work day, as I said before the new head which HAD to be replaced got replaced, the crankshaft will probably need regrinded just to stay on the safe side, I have been trying to work out a deal with a guy on an Avengers forum to obtain a turbo (albeit small) but I am just not sure how I am going to be able to fit the fuel pump, turbo, innjectors, new manifold, and more stuff in a 2 grand budget, I am not totally sure what all NEEDS replaced so until I am practically finished with the car I am not sure what I am going to do about it. Also with regards to the exhaust manifold, we decided to not go SS and to instead get a good old steel header which is ceramic coated, might or might not wrap it depending on how crazy I m feeling. I am anticipating over 200lbs of weight shed from the car before I am done with it, until then keep driving.

You only really need to wrap if you're really concerned about your under hood temps. I have a 4-1 header on mine that came with the car and the only reason I wrapped was because of the short ram intake (don't get one) which is sucking up 120+ air temperature. Down from 130+ before wrap.
A small turbo would be preferable on a factory non turbo engine seeing as how it doesn't have the reinforcement that is found in the turbo motors. And you get quick spool times. Lol. I'd like to see how that runs. Also, make sure you get dished pistons for that so you don't blow out your motor. I'd hate to see all that hard work blow up in your face.
If you have it in your budget, get a full cold air intake and a proper exhaust system so your car can breathe better and you'll get more performance out of the work you're putting into the engine.
Keep up the good work!

 

[Nbgorman]

You only really need to wrap if you're really concerned about your under hood temps. I have a 4-1 header on mine that came with the car and the only reason I wrapped was because of the short ram intake (don't get one) which is sucking up 120+ air temperature. Down from 130+ before wrap.
A small turbo would be preferable on a factory non turbo engine seeing as how it doesn't have the reinforcement that is found in the turbo motors. And you get quick spool times. Lol. I'd like to see how that runs. Also, make sure you get dished pistons for that so you don't blow out your motor. I'd hate to see all that hard work blow up in your face.
If you have it in your budget, get a full cold air intake and a proper exhaust system so your car can breathe better and you'll get more performance out of the work you're putting into the engine.
Keep up the good work!

Exactly what I was doing, I have a cold air intake system planned out (Remove driver front fog light cover and rub filter down there )I have headers on the to do list and maybe a 2.75in exhaust through and out, no muffler and no cat as ohio isnt an emissions state I can do that haha I only wanted to wrap the header because the cooler that the engine bay is the cooler the air intake pipe will be, and the cooler the already cool air will be.

 

[ZeroGeined]

Nice planning. I've been wanting to do more or less the same thing. I have the Sensei from bumper on my talon and it had multiple air inlets to it that I could use for the air intake. Don't forget to have a way for water to escape. Most cold air intakes have a bypass valve in case of accidental water ingestion, but to have a way to try to prevent that would still be important.

Glad to see you thinking all of this through though. Thumbs up in my book.

 

[Nbgorman]

Nice planning. I've been wanting to do more or less the same thing. I have the Sensei from bumper on my talon and it had multiple air inlets to it that I could use for the air intake. Don't forget to have a way for water to escape. Most cold air intakes have a bypass valve in case of accidental water ingestion, but to have a way to try to prevent that would still be important.

Glad to see you thinking all of this through though. Thumbs up in my book.

Thank you this isnt my first whole engine rebuild, first I was 8 rebuilding a 427 (Right) output of over 500 horse power with all aeroquip braided tubing, and a ton of modifications, I can remember them all, and an esape valve would be a good idea, wasnt going to do that ince the plumbing will go up at approx. 60 degrees and I doubt I will be pulling enough vaccum pressure to suck small amounts of water that high, might be wrong but I doubt it

 

[ZeroGeined]

Nice. Same goes for myself. I'm 25 and I've been helping my dad with every variation of the engines for '79-'81 Pontiac Firebird/Trans-Am.

What engines were those for?

 

[Nbgorman]

Nice. Same goes for myself. I'm 25 and I've been helping my dad with every variation of the engines for '79-'81 Pontiac Firebird/Trans-Am.

What engines were those for?

1968 Corvette, Featured on the global Thursday shout out on Speedhunters.com

 

[ZeroGeined]

Badass!

 

[ZeroGeined]

Any updates on this?

 

[Nbgorman]

Yes. I have been meaning to do an update post. Sit down. Grab some popcorn, this is a long one..


[UPDATE]

Well dropped a little over half of my budget on parts. Got my new high compression pistons in. New timing belt. New timing belt tensioner. New bearings (main and rod). New camshafts. Got a hand made EGR block off kit. As far as I can remember that is the end of parts which I ordered. As for the camshafts... I meant to order Stage 2 cams right? Well I had accidentally ordered turbo cams... So I checker out CNC-Motorsports website (where I ordered them from) and the turbo cams were incorrectly labeled as "Non-Turbo" cams. So I called up CNC and they did a cross-check to ensure that I wasn't pulling their chain. But all worked out, the sent me a shipping label and all I had to do was send my turbo cams in, and they would get new stage 2 cams sent out. This was 2 weeks ago. Still haven't seen the stage 2 cams lol, but whats the rush? So I had some great experience with them. My father is an engineer at a local piping plant and has the skill to bore out my throttle body. I believe it was stock at 50mm and tapered down to 48mm it is now 58mm and tapers to 55 or so. I will get some pictures of all my parts in later today when I head over to the house. My coolant pipes on the forward of the engine were corroded BADDD. So I sandblasted them and went to paint them, they didn't turn out well, pitted horribly. So my dad and his infinite amount of wisdom made new ones! These are copper pipes with stainless brackets. Should last longer than the car. I went to sand blast the calve cover, because it is going to be a deep black cherry red. And come to find out its powder coated... So sandblasting would take forever. So we threw it in the grill. Baked it at about 700 degrees F and that baked the powder coat right off! But there were air pockets in the aluminum which turned to bubbles... So we grinded those out, filled them with JB Weld. And good as new. We are shipping out the block to get bored .020" and honed. We are also sending the crank to get reconditioned. We are also sending out the head to get milled .020". This will make out .020" overbore 9.8:1 pistons bounce up to approx. 10.1:1. Cheap power. Like I said I will get pictures thrown up.