marc12868
Android Expert
If they terminate your serviced for running cyanogenmod and aren't effecting their network (I.e tethering without the plan) then sue...
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- Thread starter tuller
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If they terminate your serviced for running cyanogenmod and aren't effecting their network (I.e tethering without the plan) then sue...
Could they terminate my service just for running CyanogenMod? (I never use tethering, I will use the honor system and never tether without paying for the plan). But how am I, a middle-class person living in a corporation-controlled country, supposed to sue a company with an army of lawyers (if they were to terminate my service)?
benslgdroid
rockstar
Lawyers love that stuff they will do a pay on win.
marc12868
Android Expert
Could they terminate my service just for running CyanogenMod? (I never use tethering, I will use the honor system and never tether without paying for the plan). But how am I, a middle-class person living in a corporation-controlled country, supposed to sue a company with an army of lawyers (if they were to terminate my service)?
They can't legally do anything if you are rooted/ running a custom rom unless you are affecting the network in some way. But even though they can't they can try and they might get away with it, because that's the way companies run... If they do terminate someone for having a custom rom and they have no proof that they were affecting the network then they can be sued.
agentc13
Daleks Über Alles
That being said, unless you are using up a ton of bandwidth (tethering/streaming a ton), it probably won't be an issue at all.
zachavm
Android Enthusiast
I'd stick with a BBB complaint. Much less hassle/money and likely better results.
Does anyone here think they could create something that detects CyanogenMod and automatically terminates your service if it detects it when connected to their network? I'm seriously afraid of this! I love my CM7 and do not want an evil corporation to take its functionality away! I would never tether without paying! In case they ever do create something, could we hack all of the currently developed ROMs to report as stock ROMs? Plus, if they blocked all their phones from running custom ROMs, imagine how much ad revenue that would take away from you guys... And if other companies followed in that technique, this site would loose a lot of money.
agentc13
Daleks Über Alles
I wouldn't worry. IMO, they are posting this to try to get away with it and scare people from doing those things (custom ROMs/root). I really don't think they will kick anyone unless there is some other issue (tethering/streaming and using a ton of bandwidth).
Especially with the Triumph and the fact that it will keep growing those alog files, you pretty much have to root the phone (to stop the alog files form growing) to have any internal memory left. So you can always argue that. Companies put out ToS that are not enforceable all the time to try to get away with things. Just cause they write it like that does not make that the law or make it enforceable in practice.
The question is, if they wanted to, would they be able to automatically drop service on every rooted phone with a custom ROM?
agentc13
Daleks Über Alles
Not legally, no. They could try it, but I don't think it would hold up.
Xerpocalypse
Member
IMHO, it's absolute folly for VM to place such a clause in their TOS. Not only has it been established in a legal court of law that they can't terminate us for rooting, but this also brings up another point:
Ultimately, it is VM's responsibility to provide a better user experience for all of its customers, where possible. This, theoretically, includes ROM updates, as they pertain to user experience. Developers such as Isaac, TG, Mantera, G60, and many others have shown that it's more than possible to coax newer versions of Android to work on the Motorola Triumph, so why hasn't VM taken action? Heaven only knows. Since VM has dropped the ball, it seems that it is now the responsibility of the users to provide themselves with a better experience, through whatever means necesary (i.e., rooting, custom recoveries/ROMS, etc.)
The fact that they discourage and illegally state it will terminate your service this makes me wonder what kind of company VM really wants itself to be.
Ultimately, it is VM's responsibility to provide a better user experience for all of its customers, where possible. This, theoretically, includes ROM updates, as they pertain to user experience. Developers such as Isaac, TG, Mantera, G60, and many others have shown that it's more than possible to coax newer versions of Android to work on the Motorola Triumph, so why hasn't VM taken action? Heaven only knows. Since VM has dropped the ball, it seems that it is now the responsibility of the users to provide themselves with a better experience, through whatever means necesary (i.e., rooting, custom recoveries/ROMS, etc.)
The fact that they discourage and illegally state it will terminate your service this makes me wonder what kind of company VM really wants itself to be.
agianne
Well-Known Member
That is not correct.
TL/DR -
- Rooting your phone is not illegal under the DCMA
- VM can terminate your account for any reason at any time and there is no law or regulation stopping them
The Librarian of Congress released a rulemaking on July 26, 2010 that stated jailbreaking/rooting your device is a specific, allowed exception to the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act), a federal law defined in the United States Code - the courts weren't involved. Said another way, it is not a violation of federal law to root your phone.
Remember that Apple has a locked down device/App Store ecosystem and people can not add legally-acquired, third-party apps to their phones. Jailbreaking/rooting simply allows them to install legally-acquired, third-party apps. The exception is pretty straightforward and doesn't go any further than that.
This rule does not say that you have a right to sue nor does it say anything about conditions under which a wireless company can terminate your service. There are no wireless telecom specific regulations or laws that define those things either. It's an competitive market subject to market forces.
Again, the Terms and Conditions for VM say that VM can terminate your service for any reason. That's pretty cut and dry. As I've said before, they can dump you as a customer anytime they want for any reason they want. It's not illegal because there is no relevant law preventing that.
As a community, we need to do a better job of understanding what the relevant laws are, how they pertain to what we want to do and how we can get what we want while complying with the law. All the tough talk about suing based on laws that don't exist is not a plan for success.
agianne
Well-Known Member
Yes, absolutely. It has nothing to do with rooting specifically. When you began using the service, you agreed to the Terms and Conditions which state VM can suspend or terminate your service for any reason.
Although it is very unlikely VM would do it, if they found out you were using a modified device and dumped you for it, there isn't much you could do because you agreed to Terms and Conditions allowing them to do that.
My personal advice is to just not worry about it. They want your revenue. Even if your device acts crazy once and floods the network, they'd most likely just block that device and allow you to fix it or get another one. When I was a manager in similar situations, I always tried to preserve the revenue stream and only dropped a customer when there was significant, unrepentant and/or repeated abuse. I get why people are worried, but I think we're talking about a theoretical concern that isn't likely to come up in actual practice.
septembersrain
句_句 Smurfing Awesome
From what I'm hearing their major concern is the tethering.
Cyanogen Mod and other roms are not their target UNLESS they already have the built in hotspot/tethering abilities.
I've also been told that certain apps do use an excessive amount of data as well.
ROM Manager for example, Will use a large amount of data when you download a new ROM from its servers.
For them it's about keeping the network from becoming overly congested with customers who are using an excess amount of data.
I have never had a customer tell me of them having their service terminated.
If I ever do, I'll be coming right here to tell you guys...
Cyanogen Mod and other roms are not their target UNLESS they already have the built in hotspot/tethering abilities.
I've also been told that certain apps do use an excessive amount of data as well.
ROM Manager for example, Will use a large amount of data when you download a new ROM from its servers.
For them it's about keeping the network from becoming overly congested with customers who are using an excess amount of data.
I have never had a customer tell me of them having their service terminated.
If I ever do, I'll be coming right here to tell you guys...
Xerpocalypse
Member
Mea culpa, and thanks, it's a bit clearer to me now. I was going to mention that they could because we agreed as customers to their TOS, but I decided not to. Although, I still uphold my belief that it's bad business policy to kick us for rooting, or worse, not providing us with ROM updates when there's an abundance of reasons as to why they should.
Luckily, capitalism helps us a bit, eh?
agianne
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I don't even know that the "official" term/phrase is. I assume it's got to be a phrase something like "gaining root access to the operating system"?
The exception listed by the Librarian of Congress reads:
agianne
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I didn't mean to seem like I was directing that at you specifically. A bunch of us are confused about what's what.
Like you say, market forces are the order of the day in wireless telecom in the U.S., so filing a BBB complaint or a complaint with your state's Attorney General's Office of Consumer Protection (or both) is much more likely to get you somewhere if you think you are being treated unfairly and the company has rejected your reasonable efforts to resolve the issue.
Good, so I get it. They could technically drop me for anything I do that they don't like. The thing is, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot and helping spread a bad reputation about their service if they booted me for having a device with a custom ROM. If they done this practice with all their rooted/custom ROM running users, my guess is that they'd eventually loose a lot of cash. And the only thing I know that companies care about today is cash... So unless they want loads of cash to go into the fire pit, they'd never terminate service for reasons like running a rooted or custom firmware device.
RolaAddict
Android Enthusiast
I do ALOT of tethering.....mainly cause I live in BFE and it's that or nothing and VM hasn't dropped me.There has been like 2 or 3 months I've gone WAY over the 2.5 GB still nothing.They know the phone is for business purposes so that could be why.I literally use my phone for EVERYTHING:GPS,internet,tethering at home or on the go,texing,calling,playing games ect.I don't see VM winning a case if they dropped you cause of data usage.The plan does say UNLIMITED DATA not "You can only use as much data as we say or else you're cut off"They can't PROVE that the phone was rooted or had custom ROM on it without them doing a warrant for your phone if you go to court (which I doubt would fly).I think it's all a scare tactic to keep people from doing what they want with their phones.
OverByter
Resident Slide Rule Guru
Besides tethering I think that another issue that they're trying to address with the rooting language is the probably huge number of warranty replacements for user created bricks. While the Triumph and Intercept are damn close to being unbrickable it certainly doesnt stop people from trying their hardest as these and other forums readily prove. Too many people try to root without having any knowledge or even a reason. There is nothing wrong with doing it just because but be an adult and be responsible for your errors without returning devices that you destroyed and subsequently raise the costs for everyone else. In my view this is the same thing as walking into a store and stealing. Both require a concious decision to do wrong.
OverByter
Resident Slide Rule Guru
Unfortunately they can cut you off for excessive usage. In a legal sense the term unlimited has a different meaning than the dictionary does. They state that unlimited does not mean "unreasonable " which is solely defined by them alone. Such is modern American law twisting the true definition of what appears to be a simple word. As a former president who also happened to be an attorney once stated "It all depends on what the definition of what the word "is" is" ;-)
Petrah
Psychotic Female
And because you (and everyone else who uses it without paying) aren't paying for the service like they should, we now get throttled if we go over 2.5gb per month.
Virgin Mobile never said anything about cutting you off. The plan is unlimited and that has not changed. Even if you go over 2.5gb, you still have data access. It's just slower than normal. They have a right to reduce the bandwidth if you abuse their service or take it without paying for it. If people are going over 2.5gb per month, they need an ISP not a mobile carrier.
ohyeahyeah
Newbie
That does it.. Im done with VirginMobile. Im going to switch to a GSM unlimite everything for $45 or less a month.
marc12868
Android Expert
If you are talking about Straight Talk there terms are even stricter... just saying
. And I don't think there is anyone else who has unlimited everything for $45 or less... T-mo has unlimited everything for $50 though.