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Getting ready to write a book
- Thread starter n0ct3m
- Start date
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Be very careful when it comes to editors and book doctors; another term often applied to freelance editors.
For this discussion, let us assume the book will be traditionally published. That is to say, a legitimate publisher, not self-publishing or its variants. You will deal with an editor at the publishing company. His or her job is to make sure your book flows and is well written. He or she will hold your hand and further your book along, from galleys to the final product.
And many well respected authors are edited.
All too often, beginners seem hell bent on hiring an editor because they think they need to do this. Not at all true.
Remember this all caps: MONEY MUST ALWAYS FLOW TO THE WRITER AND NEVER FROM THE WRITER! If you have something worth publishing, it will likely find a publisher.
Bob Maxey
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Not to put a damper on things, but 600 pages? Are you sure you can sell it to a publisher? Consider most editor's mechanical requirements: they typically want 1.5 to double spaced and set with 11 to 12 point type. If your manuscript is set like that and still 600 pages, you will likely never sell it. That would be a huge pile of pages, after all.
I once tried to convince a silly writer that her 2500 page (single space, single side, 10 point set masterwork will NEVER EVER EVER sell because it is too damn big.
I suggest that if your goal is traditional publishing, read the guidelines odffered by the publisher. See if they will consider a manuscript that is more than a ream high.
As for paying for an editor, not a great idea and almost never a requirement. No serious publishing house I am aware of suggests writers pay for a freelance editor. Those chores are most often handled by the writer or your publisher.
You submit a proposal and if they say yes, all you will deal with as far as money is concerned is cashing the advance; hopefully, the royalty checks.
Bob Maxey
Borat38
Newbie
Yeah, a prospective agent in New York I spoke with pretty much said the same thing: that 600 pages is gonna be tough to sell for a new author like me. But the manuscript's already been whittled down from its previous 800 pages. It's long because it's a historical novel (WWII & 1200 AD--in one novel).
What about publishing it in e-book format? I mean, 600 pages doesn't feel like 600 pages when it's inside a Kindle.
mycaermita
Member
I get struck by a Writer's Block too! But I found that the best way to counter this is to simply gather what you can from whatever there is around you. For example, if you're writing a romance, you'd take some inspiration from your girlfriend or relationships of people around you.
Sometimes, I tend to get some of the juice from other authors. I don't think this is a bad technique. Whatever you like to read, sometimes some of the style gets transported into your own and that's not illegal. "A writer is only as great as his inspiration" can be a good one here.
Also, don't fall asleep before you finish your rough draft. Sometimes pausing makes it harder to gather whatever you want to write. Let it flow. Don't think about grammar, spelling or "Is this good? Will people like this?" just yet. When you let your hands type whatever pops into your brain, good things come out.
You can add whatever else you want when you edit it for the first time. At least, that's what I do. Don't forget to take quick breaks in between though! A brain (or our optical nerves) can only take as much from computer radiations. Haha
Allot a significantly long time in your day to finish your book. Around 4 hours or so is a good length of time to write. Try to do it an hour or two after you eat your breakfast. A fresh day brings out fresh ideas. Writing before you sleep only makes you groggy.
Anyway, good luck! Let us know what happens to your book. ^^
Sometimes, I tend to get some of the juice from other authors. I don't think this is a bad technique. Whatever you like to read, sometimes some of the style gets transported into your own and that's not illegal. "A writer is only as great as his inspiration" can be a good one here.
Also, don't fall asleep before you finish your rough draft. Sometimes pausing makes it harder to gather whatever you want to write. Let it flow. Don't think about grammar, spelling or "Is this good? Will people like this?" just yet. When you let your hands type whatever pops into your brain, good things come out. You can add whatever else you want when you edit it for the first time. At least, that's what I do. Don't forget to take quick breaks in between though! A brain (or our optical nerves) can only take as much from computer radiations. Haha
Allot a significantly long time in your day to finish your book. Around 4 hours or so is a good length of time to write. Try to do it an hour or two after you eat your breakfast. A fresh day brings out fresh ideas. Writing before you sleep only makes you groggy.
Anyway, good luck! Let us know what happens to your book. ^^
ScottColbert
Well-Known Member
As a published writer and publisher (though I DO NOT publish my own work), I suggest two books to be close at hand at all times:
1. Strunk and White's Elements of Style.
2. Stephen King's book, "On Writing".
Every writer I know, the ones worth reading anyway, swear by those two books and so do I.
As a small-more micro really-press publisher, I can tell you I read a lot of crap when I had an open reading period. So much so, that I've pretty much decided to just go with people I know-whose writing I know will be good. Some I've found on other forums that had nothing to do with writing-others I've known for years.
My advice for what it's worth is fairly simple and straightforward: Just write. Don't edit along the way-you'll never finish. don't write with the idea of being published-you're going to hamstring your creativity. When I started writing my novella due out this year, I did that, and it really showed. When I said, screw it, and wrote the story the way I really wanted to write it, the difference was night and day.
Read as much as you write. It's like on the job training. Read everything-even genres you don't like. You never know when you you may end up writing in that hated genre. Example: I hated westerns-I just never liked them, so imagine my surprise when the first novel I wrote was a western!
Don't be lazy: do research. If you're writing a period piece, make sure you get the details right. Readers will know when you're fudging. So will editors.
Talk to other writers, go to conventions. Network. Make yourself known. No one will EVER understand you except another writer. Don't believe me? Try talking shop with a non writer and watch their eyes glaze over.
When you get ready to send something out, GOOGLE THE PUBLISHING COMPANY. It's just as important you find out as much about the publishers as they know about you. If a publisher has submission guidelines follow them! We put them up for a reason. If you don't you'll more than likely get rejected without even being read. It's what I do. If someone can't bother to double space their submission as I ask, how are they going to take editorial critiques?
And most important of all, HAVE FUN!
1. Strunk and White's Elements of Style.
2. Stephen King's book, "On Writing".
Every writer I know, the ones worth reading anyway, swear by those two books and so do I.
As a small-more micro really-press publisher, I can tell you I read a lot of crap when I had an open reading period. So much so, that I've pretty much decided to just go with people I know-whose writing I know will be good. Some I've found on other forums that had nothing to do with writing-others I've known for years.
My advice for what it's worth is fairly simple and straightforward: Just write. Don't edit along the way-you'll never finish. don't write with the idea of being published-you're going to hamstring your creativity. When I started writing my novella due out this year, I did that, and it really showed. When I said, screw it, and wrote the story the way I really wanted to write it, the difference was night and day.
Read as much as you write. It's like on the job training. Read everything-even genres you don't like. You never know when you you may end up writing in that hated genre. Example: I hated westerns-I just never liked them, so imagine my surprise when the first novel I wrote was a western!
Don't be lazy: do research. If you're writing a period piece, make sure you get the details right. Readers will know when you're fudging. So will editors.
Talk to other writers, go to conventions. Network. Make yourself known. No one will EVER understand you except another writer. Don't believe me? Try talking shop with a non writer and watch their eyes glaze over.
When you get ready to send something out, GOOGLE THE PUBLISHING COMPANY. It's just as important you find out as much about the publishers as they know about you. If a publisher has submission guidelines follow them! We put them up for a reason. If you don't you'll more than likely get rejected without even being read. It's what I do. If someone can't bother to double space their submission as I ask, how are they going to take editorial critiques?
And most important of all, HAVE FUN!
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
I just stumbled across this thread. I was in the process of writing a book that ended up getting shelved. It was actually a mystery based on a nightmare I had. I am madly in love with the two detective main characters and horrified by the general evilness of the villain, but the plot itself ain't moving at all. I may end up scrapping it or large parts of it.
I then started on another book that is much more promising and I'm really enjoying writing, but there is so much background material and research to be done for it. I really want to self publish it by August or so.
I then started on another book that is much more promising and I'm really enjoying writing, but there is so much background material and research to be done for it. I really want to self publish it by August or so.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Why self-publish? You should try the traditional approach because the benefits are greater.
Bob
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
How are the benefits better? I confess I honestly don't know. I know if I self-publish then I can promote the book as I want to promote it. I can price it how I want to price it. I don't lose the rights to my book or my name. I have the potential to make more money if the book is quality. I read an article recently where some author who has published a couple of books already turned down a half a million dollar deal for his next book in order to self publish. It seems like a huge, gigantic hassle to do traditional publishing. If I do self-publishing, I can publish right after I'm done instead of waiting several months and maybe even a year before publishing.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
There are those stories about self-published books going mainstream but do not count on a publisher finding you and making an offer.
Compared to traditional publishing, yes, it is a "hassle." But the rewards are far greater and you do not loose any rights to your book or your name. It depends upon the contract you sign. Lots of things in those contracts you might find objectionable, like loosing merchandising or movie rights and the potential that comes with that end of the deal.
But those contracts are not set in stone. Once you sell your book to a publisher, you will find little problem finding an agent. And remember this, you do not absolutely need an agent to sell a book; they are there to help you create a great book and avoid being screwed or taken advantage of by a publisher.
For example, JK's 'Harry Potter' books generated hundreds of millions of dollars from action figures, games, and movies. So those rights were important.
As for earnings potential, who is to say. A very tiny fraction of self-published boos go anywhere. And to be fair, not every traditionally published book does gangbusters, either. Lots of failures with both methods. You are often able to get an advance which industry averages put at about 8-15 grand. That is far more profit than the vast majority of self-published books earn.
There are far more issues and problems and dangers with self-publishing than I have time to discuss. Just think about both methods.
Bob
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
Personally, I would enjoy a discussion of the pros/cons of self-publishing. I think it could net some valuable information.
I'm not expecting to get rich off my book. I'm not expecting to sell more than a few hundred copies to be honest and that's probably being ambitious. I just want to get my work out there where people can read it. From what I have read, publishers get literally hundreds of submissions every single day. If I submitted a draft to them today, it might literally take 6 months to a year before they even read it. Even then, there's no guarantee it's going to be what they are looking for and that's fine. I don't want to wait a year to find out if I'm going to be published or not. Even if they accept the draft, the editing process could easily drag on 6-8 months. It might be a year and a half from the time I submit to the time the book comes out. Are publisher's going to promote a brand new author very heavily? I doubt it and I can't blame them. I can self-publish for next to nothing. I would be extremely interested in knowing the pros/cons of both. I'm far from an expert on the subject.
My goal is simply to get the book out there at minimal cost to me in terms of hassle. I'm not expecting to sell 50 million copies or make any sort of best seller's list. I don't want my name plastered on billboards. I simply want to write something that will make a reader, any reader think.
I'm not expecting to get rich off my book. I'm not expecting to sell more than a few hundred copies to be honest and that's probably being ambitious. I just want to get my work out there where people can read it. From what I have read, publishers get literally hundreds of submissions every single day. If I submitted a draft to them today, it might literally take 6 months to a year before they even read it. Even then, there's no guarantee it's going to be what they are looking for and that's fine. I don't want to wait a year to find out if I'm going to be published or not. Even if they accept the draft, the editing process could easily drag on 6-8 months. It might be a year and a half from the time I submit to the time the book comes out. Are publisher's going to promote a brand new author very heavily? I doubt it and I can't blame them. I can self-publish for next to nothing. I would be extremely interested in knowing the pros/cons of both. I'm far from an expert on the subject.
My goal is simply to get the book out there at minimal cost to me in terms of hassle. I'm not expecting to sell 50 million copies or make any sort of best seller's list. I don't want my name plastered on billboards. I simply want to write something that will make a reader, any reader think.
Edit: lol, Just noticed OP's date. Oh well.
Here's some general advice.
1. Write till you finish your first draft. Set a realistic word count goal for every week and finish it. Write at your own pace, but keep writing.
2. Don't worry so much about cliches, grammar, whether or not it makes any sense. Focus on getting the words down.
3. Let it sit for a while until you can look at it again with fresh eyes, then edit or rewrite depending on its needs. Repeat as necessary. Do not dare send off a first draft to an agent or publisher, expecting it to be accepted.
4. Make sure you keep in mind your genre word counts when revising your manuscript. For instance, publishers don't like seeing anything above 120k for an epic fantasy. Yes, yes, many epic fantasies break that, but it's better to stick with the rules until you understand how to break them.
5. Once you no longer see any problems with your work, it might be wise to get a few beta readers. You can find them at the Absolutewrite forums posted above.
Things to keep in mind.
1. If you are going the traditional commercial publishing route, then do not post any of your work online. Sure, you can probably get away with a chapter, but I simply wouldn't do it. That first chapter would be considered published, so if you posted the whole book, then you just published your work. Why would any commercial publisher want to publish something you can get for free or elsewhere?
2. Get an agent. This way you don't have to worry about Publisher's slushpiles and submitting rules. AgentQuery :: Find the Agent Who Will Find You a Publisher and http://querytracker.net/ are good places to start.
3. Stay away from Publish America.
4. Don't worry about copyright. The moment you put the words on paper, it all belongs to you.
Self-Publishing:
1. If you've been denied for a while, then this might be the route to go, at least for one of your manuscripts. Don't expect to sell more than 100 though and don't expect for any publisher to touch your work if it's already been published (whether by your or publisher).
2. It's benefits are mainly for already established authors, who have a fanbase that will stick with them.
3. If you want to simply get your book out there, then I would still try traditional publishing first, and only self-publish once I've exhausted every single agent in my genre. You have nothing to lose.
Traditional publishing:
1. Expect around a 10k advance (money the publisher gives you up front) for one book in a popular genre. Of course this works out in different ways. If you write a trilogy for instance, you may get a 30k advance. Or you may get 6k. It depends on how big the publisher is, and how much they like your book, along with other factors.
And that doesn't take into account royalties, which is your percentage of books sold. But before that, you have to earn out your advance (as in, if you get a 10k advance, you have to earn that back from the books sold). I'm pretty sure most authors don't earn back their advance, but I may be wrong.
Of course you won't know what your advance will be until you're offered one.
2. Get an agent. A lot of publishers, when submitting directly to them, require that you don't submit to anyone else. An agent can bypass that. Basically, having an agent doesn't mean your work will be accepted by a publisher, but it definitely increases the odds.
3. Don't pay your agent anything. Money flows to the writer.
4. By going the traditional publishing route, your book will end up in stores such as B&N, Walmart, etc. And that is still where the majority of books sold comes from.
Good luck. Writing is hard. Getting published is hard. But if you understand that, then you're better off than most who finish that first draft and think it's the next Harry Potter.
Oh, and one last thing. A good book on writing, my fav at least, is Self-Editing for Fiction Writers. After you finish your first draft, get it, devour, apply.
Here's some general advice.
1. Write till you finish your first draft. Set a realistic word count goal for every week and finish it. Write at your own pace, but keep writing.
2. Don't worry so much about cliches, grammar, whether or not it makes any sense. Focus on getting the words down.
3. Let it sit for a while until you can look at it again with fresh eyes, then edit or rewrite depending on its needs. Repeat as necessary. Do not dare send off a first draft to an agent or publisher, expecting it to be accepted.
4. Make sure you keep in mind your genre word counts when revising your manuscript. For instance, publishers don't like seeing anything above 120k for an epic fantasy. Yes, yes, many epic fantasies break that, but it's better to stick with the rules until you understand how to break them.
5. Once you no longer see any problems with your work, it might be wise to get a few beta readers. You can find them at the Absolutewrite forums posted above.
Things to keep in mind.
1. If you are going the traditional commercial publishing route, then do not post any of your work online. Sure, you can probably get away with a chapter, but I simply wouldn't do it. That first chapter would be considered published, so if you posted the whole book, then you just published your work. Why would any commercial publisher want to publish something you can get for free or elsewhere?
2. Get an agent. This way you don't have to worry about Publisher's slushpiles and submitting rules. AgentQuery :: Find the Agent Who Will Find You a Publisher and http://querytracker.net/ are good places to start.
3. Stay away from Publish America.
4. Don't worry about copyright. The moment you put the words on paper, it all belongs to you.
Self-Publishing:
1. If you've been denied for a while, then this might be the route to go, at least for one of your manuscripts. Don't expect to sell more than 100 though and don't expect for any publisher to touch your work if it's already been published (whether by your or publisher).
2. It's benefits are mainly for already established authors, who have a fanbase that will stick with them.
3. If you want to simply get your book out there, then I would still try traditional publishing first, and only self-publish once I've exhausted every single agent in my genre. You have nothing to lose.
Traditional publishing:
1. Expect around a 10k advance (money the publisher gives you up front) for one book in a popular genre. Of course this works out in different ways. If you write a trilogy for instance, you may get a 30k advance. Or you may get 6k. It depends on how big the publisher is, and how much they like your book, along with other factors.
And that doesn't take into account royalties, which is your percentage of books sold. But before that, you have to earn out your advance (as in, if you get a 10k advance, you have to earn that back from the books sold). I'm pretty sure most authors don't earn back their advance, but I may be wrong.
Of course you won't know what your advance will be until you're offered one.
2. Get an agent. A lot of publishers, when submitting directly to them, require that you don't submit to anyone else. An agent can bypass that. Basically, having an agent doesn't mean your work will be accepted by a publisher, but it definitely increases the odds.
3. Don't pay your agent anything. Money flows to the writer.
4. By going the traditional publishing route, your book will end up in stores such as B&N, Walmart, etc. And that is still where the majority of books sold comes from.
Good luck. Writing is hard. Getting published is hard. But if you understand that, then you're better off than most who finish that first draft and think it's the next Harry Potter.
Oh, and one last thing. A good book on writing, my fav at least, is Self-Editing for Fiction Writers. After you finish your first draft, get it, devour, apply.
n0ct3m
Android Enthusiast
Wow, my thread is still around. I never would have guessed that. Anyway, I'm torn at the moment and maybe you guys can help. I really would like to get something written (not necessarily to try and publish or anything, I just want to be able to say I did it) but my issue is that I can come up with a beginning and an end, but it's filling in all the in betweens that has proven to be...problematic. Perhaps I just lack the creativity to do it. Who knows /shrug.
Snedd
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the links. My wife's made some progress in that she's had one story published in a UK magazine (paid) and another in a flash fiction horror anthology (unpaid, writer's copy) but hasn't had any luck finding an agent.
[She has some stories here if anyone's interested
]
TheCompBoy
Android Enthusiast
That can be such a hard question, so all I have is advice.
1. Remember that conflict is what drives a plot and character development. Your MC wants something, she doesn't get it, conflict. Your bad guy wants something, your MC doesn't want him to get it, conflict. Resolution of course being when your MC gets what she wants.
2. Don't forget the natural progression of a story. If you have bad guys running around (whether evil companies or evil wizards or a sick priest), they're going to have lives and continue being a thorn in your PoV's side when they're not being seen.
3. You may want to try outlining. It seems to work for a lot of writers.
Thanks for the links. My wife's made some progress in that she's had one story published in a UK magazine (paid) and another in a flash fiction horror anthology (unpaid, writer's copy) but hasn't had any luck finding an agent.
[She has some stories here if anyone's interested
Does she only write short stories and flash fiction or is she trying to get an agent for a novel length manuscript?
Here are a few things to keep in mind if the latter is the case.
1. You need a good query. The AW forums has an area that will help her there.
2. You need to send a lot of them out. Once again, check AW to see how other people do it, but it usually starts with making a top five or ten list of your 'best' agents (those who've made sales for your type of book, etc) and sending to them first.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
A few comments (and not everything listed is required, read the Writer's Guidelines and consider your genre):
You don't just need a good query, you need a great package.
Some things you might require is a cover letter, a chapter by chapter outline in detail, a list of prior publishing credits (NO, you do not need to be previously published, they like to know as much about the potential author as possible. If they ask, do not fret if this is your first book) a list of competing books, ideas for marketing, a list of photos and illustrations (again, it depends upon the book)
You must read the writers/contributors guidelines. These are available from your publisher and agent. And, you DO NOT need an agent to sell a book. And, the agent will likely have his or her own set of printed guidelines. You must provide whatever they want and no excuses for imperfections.
Bob
Snedd
Well-Known Member
She's looking for an agent for a horror/fantasy novel which we thought had been accepted, but after working with one of the publisher's editors for a few months they lost interest. We never found out why.
A cover letter may or may not be necessary, a list of previous published works can easily go into a query letter (or pitch if you're a writer's conference), and you definitely want to write a synopsis and chapter by chapter outline before you start querying.
But you certainly don't need, nor do agents or publishers ask for, photos and illustrations.
Publishers have their own illustrators. And if you're talking about picture books, then that goes off into it's own odd world of some publishers only wanting text, others wanting dummy books (separate from the text only manuscript), and so on.
But once again, you don't need one single picture in popular YA and adult fiction, nor is it expected and I'll even go out on a limb and say that the extreme majority of publishers don't want it.
Of course the only rules that exist are those that your agent or publisher has set out, and the norms that apply to all the various methods of getting your work published.
I said above you don't need an agent. But if you do go straight to the publisher by snail mail submissions, expect two things and you won't be disappointed.
1. A slushpile that can go on for eternity.
2. The strong possibility that you can't submit anywhere else while your manuscript is in that slushpile.
And then there are writer's conferences. Costly, but possibly effective.
My original advice was only meant to see what exactly Snedd's wife has done and what she could possibly do.
OK, good. I asked that question because I was wondering if she was trying to get a collection of short stories published or something like that.
Well here's my two cents.
1. Keep writing new books. I don't recommend continuing a series for a book that's unpublished/unagented unless you're in it just for fun.
2. If an agent isn't biting the query, then chances are the query simply isn't good enough. So rewrite, get it critiqued, rewrite, get it critiqued, rewrite, so on.
But it could be because the story sounds cliche, or for any other number of reasons.
3. If you have the cash, she may want to check out writer's conferences. It's not a requirement by any means, but I just heard of an AW friend being accepted by an Publisher at one of these things, plus there are other benefits (talking to fellow writers, agents, editors, workshops, etc).
But seriously, if she's not a member at AW forums right now, she needs to be. Loads of published and writers with agents are there who can help. JA Konrath is a famous horror author (nowadays self-publishing) I can think of off the top of my head who's a member at the forums.
I even know a YA writer who had a Publisher's intern read her query in the critique section and asked for the full (this is not the norm though).
I'm not saying the forum is magic. But it's definitely a good resource.
Oh, and my whole perspective may be marred by the fact that I write YA and it's been a booming genre since Twilight. ;P
Good luck!
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Snedd
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the good advice everyone. I've passed on the message about the AW site and forums.
I don't really want to get into mentioning names, or saying such and such a company did this or that, my wife knows the detail much better than me and you never know who's reading! I'm sure that whatever happened the people involved acted with the best of intentions at the time, but for one reason or another things didn't work out.
I don't really want to get into mentioning names, or saying such and such a company did this or that, my wife knows the detail much better than me and you never know who's reading! I'm sure that whatever happened the people involved acted with the best of intentions at the time, but for one reason or another things didn't work out.