There are those little applications out there that validate upon program start-up and will not work if the authorization provided by the device does not match.
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Google: Android Market will have 15 minute refund window
- Thread starter sookster54
- Start date
I agree, 24 hours was much better. I have recently seen on the market where people are posting in the free trial versions to uninstall and reinstall the free demo versions to avoid paying for them, I feel that is taking advantage of the opportunity to try them on the same thought I am really disappointed at some of the apps that they charge for, I understand someone developed them but come on help us out here, it's not like our phone were cheap or free.
Well, we all have the ultimate power because of the free enterprise system. Just don't buy an app if you haven't used a free trial version first to test it out. That will force developers to put out a free trial version, or they will force Google to put back the 24 hour refund period. That is how business works.
I think this is crazy. How can you evaluate an app in 15 minutes? Now, ALL developers - even people who do this on their own - will have to build a "lite" or time-limited version they can offer for free - which means they are NOT working on the REAL version of their app, making it better for all of us.
We need to tell Google you think this is a bad idea. One way is to use Google's own problem reporting system. Click on the link below, sign-in with your Google ID, then scroll to the bottom and click on the Star where it says "Vote for this issue and get email change notifications." Even better, leave a comment (be nice!), telling Google what you think.
Here's the link:
Issue 13116 - android - Change refund time in Market. 15min is way to little.
If anyone comes up with a better way to tell Google what we think, please post it here!
Dan
We need to tell Google you think this is a bad idea. One way is to use Google's own problem reporting system. Click on the link below, sign-in with your Google ID, then scroll to the bottom and click on the Star where it says "Vote for this issue and get email change notifications." Even better, leave a comment (be nice!), telling Google what you think.
Here's the link:
Issue 13116 - android - Change refund time in Market. 15min is way to little.
If anyone comes up with a better way to tell Google what we think, please post it here!
Dan
RichSz
Not Entitled
Well, that wasn't mine - but I admit I did not notice it. Too angry!!
Dan
PS - I do see I had a typo - a better way to do tell Google - so I'll fix that. Interesting question - should I fix the OP's typo in the link text in my message - or leave it the way it is, wrong, on the Google Code web site?? Hmm ...
Really? For 99 cents? No Starbucks coffee for you!
I can see why some would beef from a purely philosophical level, but practically how many people are really going to be stiffed by this policy change?
I have 72 apps installed, 7 of which are paid and the most expensive was $4.95 (which had a free trial version). I have never installed a paid app without first doing some research and have never uninstalled one for a refund. If after looking at the reviews and ratings, it should be reasonably easy to know if most apps will suit your needs in 15 minutes (there will always be exceptions).
They should probably tier the refund time like all apps under $1.00 would be 15 min. $1.00-2.00 would be an hour, etc, assuming the more expensive the app, the more functionality it delivers and requires a higher degree of evaluation.
I have 72 apps installed, 7 of which are paid and the most expensive was $4.95 (which had a free trial version). I have never installed a paid app without first doing some research and have never uninstalled one for a refund. If after looking at the reviews and ratings, it should be reasonably easy to know if most apps will suit your needs in 15 minutes (there will always be exceptions).
They should probably tier the refund time like all apps under $1.00 would be 15 min. $1.00-2.00 would be an hour, etc, assuming the more expensive the app, the more functionality it delivers and requires a higher degree of evaluation.
BookLover
Android Expert
The most expensive app I've purchased to date is Tasker.
It took me way over 15 minutes (more like 15 hours) to set up some things I wanted to evaluate Tasker for.
I agree that there should be a tiered system, either by cost or by app type. Productivity apps need a few hours AT LEAST for evaluation to make sure notifications work, if you're working with exchange, does it do what it says (if you download over a weekend, it's unlikely you'll get anything within 15 minutes to test exchange with).
Most apps I'll know within an hour if I want to keep them. But I've only paid for only a handful. Most of my apps are free.
It took me way over 15 minutes (more like 15 hours) to set up some things I wanted to evaluate Tasker for.
I agree that there should be a tiered system, either by cost or by app type. Productivity apps need a few hours AT LEAST for evaluation to make sure notifications work, if you're working with exchange, does it do what it says (if you download over a weekend, it's unlikely you'll get anything within 15 minutes to test exchange with).
Most apps I'll know within an hour if I want to keep them. But I've only paid for only a handful. Most of my apps are free.
or maybe i was talking about the $4,$5,$7+ apps. and 3 shitty $.99 apps is a gallon of gas so yea. really.
and starbucks is crap
edit: and im out $22 dollars even tho i had backed up my apps with both mybackup pro and titanium. the developers wouldnt refund me so i could re-purchase the apps and told me to take up the matter with google who in turn told me to take up the matter with the developers. they did however kindly invite me to buy them again which i did not
If they wanted to avoid piracy, they'd need to get rid of the window period. Someone who knows what they're doing (and wants to rip off hard working developers) can do it as easily in 2 minutes as 24 hours, given that very few apps have any sort of DRM enabled. Hell, people might be *more* likely to pirate now, if they want to try the app for longer without committing to it.
I've taken advantage of uninstalling just when I downloaded an interesting looking game that I found to be boring as hell. 15 minutes is enough time for that, but I still don't see the motivations in the change.
I agree that the developers will need to have trial versions available if they expect you to buy something with only a 15 minute refund policy. I never would have bought Touchdown at $19.99 without having made sure it worked using the free version. If all I had was 15 minutes to evaluate it then that would have definitely been one no sale for the developer. It took more than 15 minutes to configure it and download the first piece of email.
JackHughes
Lurker
It's completely ridiculous.
I'm a developer for the market, and even I think it's a stupid idea. It's only going to hurt sales, not preserve them! If I were buying an app, and I had such a limited time frame, I'd just not bother! I think that as Google appears to be trying to mimic the iTunes App Store, they're inheriting all the BAD ideas!
While the iTunes App Store requires an app to undergo a extraneously thorough review, the Android Market does not! And while that gives advantage to the developer, it is BALANCED by a trial period for the user! 24 hours may be too much time for, say, a game, but it's not simple games that make the market!
What about really good in-depth robust apps?
This encourages, imo, three main things:
-LESS purchases by the consumers too scared to put down money with no guarantee of a good app
-MORE user of pirated apps, because people are going to want to "trial" an app SOMEWHERE
-LESS robust, well-developed, well-thought-out GOOD applications!
Cause seriously. If a developer can get the same sales from less work, there are those that will abuse this option. This is where it went wrong. The developers are not the king of a market. Consumers are. Someone can make a ton of a product, but they're nothing without the buyers; they won't amount to a thing!
So suggestions??
-Change the time period to something REASONABLE! 12, 6, 3, 1 hour at MINIMUM!!!
-Don't try and mimic everything Apple does. Just cause they can turn out a good product doesn't mean they are the final authority on what works and what doesn't. (After all, why make android if you already think "Apple knows best"?)
-LISTEN to the consumers AND the developers! Come up with real compromises! Don't piss one off at the expense of sorta satisfying another.
I'm a developer for the market, and even I think it's a stupid idea. It's only going to hurt sales, not preserve them! If I were buying an app, and I had such a limited time frame, I'd just not bother! I think that as Google appears to be trying to mimic the iTunes App Store, they're inheriting all the BAD ideas!
While the iTunes App Store requires an app to undergo a extraneously thorough review, the Android Market does not! And while that gives advantage to the developer, it is BALANCED by a trial period for the user! 24 hours may be too much time for, say, a game, but it's not simple games that make the market!
What about really good in-depth robust apps?
This encourages, imo, three main things:
-LESS purchases by the consumers too scared to put down money with no guarantee of a good app
-MORE user of pirated apps, because people are going to want to "trial" an app SOMEWHERE
-LESS robust, well-developed, well-thought-out GOOD applications!
Cause seriously. If a developer can get the same sales from less work, there are those that will abuse this option. This is where it went wrong. The developers are not the king of a market. Consumers are. Someone can make a ton of a product, but they're nothing without the buyers; they won't amount to a thing!
So suggestions??
-Change the time period to something REASONABLE! 12, 6, 3, 1 hour at MINIMUM!!!
-Don't try and mimic everything Apple does. Just cause they can turn out a good product doesn't mean they are the final authority on what works and what doesn't. (After all, why make android if you already think "Apple knows best"?)
-LISTEN to the consumers AND the developers! Come up with real compromises! Don't piss one off at the expense of sorta satisfying another.
What country to do you live in where a Starbucks costs 99cents?
If it only cost 99cents Id probably quit my job and live there.
I guess you missed the point, or maybe I wasn't clear enough. Here's the explanation: I see so many people perfectly willing to use free apps (while griping about any ads), who go ballistic about paid apps, many that cost as little as 99 cents. And I suspect that many of those complainers have bought Starbucks coffee for $3+ (and don't nitpick me about the grande or vente).
We've all paid a lot for phones and wasted a lot on coffee (just an example). I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to support the devs who do the work that I can't in making this stuff fun. It's just a gripe of mine.
i think thats the perfect solution myself
I'm not all that concerned about a $0.99 app. However, I have purchased and returned two apps that cost substantially more than that, both on the day after purchase, because it took that long to determine the app was not providing what I was looking for (in one case), or just didn't work properly (in the other case).
I have also purchased and kept a whole bunch of apps.
The impact of this new policy for me is simple: It will greatly REDUCE the amount of apps purchasing that I do. Fifteen minutes, even one hour, is not sufficient time to properly determine if an app is going to serve your purpose.
I have also purchased and kept a whole bunch of apps.
The impact of this new policy for me is simple: It will greatly REDUCE the amount of apps purchasing that I do. Fifteen minutes, even one hour, is not sufficient time to properly determine if an app is going to serve your purpose.
ozzzy3z
Well-Known Member
I was picking up family from the airport and was going to give FlightTrack a try. But at $4.99 I instead went with the free version of FlightView. I've heard good things about FlightTrack but I wasn't willing to spend $5 for an app I couldn't properly test. Especially when a competitor offers a similar free app. Per this example, I think this move will hurt more devs than it will help.
For example, I own Navigon (paid $40 for it in November) because I had a reasonable amount of time to test it out. If I only had 15 minutes to request a refund, I NEVER would have tried it.
This change is very short-sighted. I also think it will flood the market with under-developed paid apps since devs know if you buy it you're essentially stuck with it.
For example, I own Navigon (paid $40 for it in November) because I had a reasonable amount of time to test it out. If I only had 15 minutes to request a refund, I NEVER would have tried it.
This change is very short-sighted. I also think it will flood the market with under-developed paid apps since devs know if you buy it you're essentially stuck with it.
Essex
Android Enthusiast
I've been thinking this one over. I think Google has implemented the 15-minute refund window as a structural disincentive for developers to create paid apps. Bear with me for a moment. From this consumer's perspective, 15 minutes is really not enough time to download and evaluate an app. As a result, I will be much less likely to try an app unless there is a "lite" version. So, if a developer wants my sale, the developer will have to make a "lite" app for me to try out on my device. Thus the developer will have to make, and support 2 apps just for one (potential) sale. What if I use the "lite" app, then decide that the paid version isn't worth my money? The developer just created 2 apps and didn't make any money from either of them. On the other hand, if the developer declines to provide a "lite" version of the app, I won't even consider buying it in the first place. The developer has already lost my sale. From a developer's perspective, is creating a paid app really worth the hassle?
So, as a consumer I have no incentive to experiment with an app unless there is a "lite" version. And a developer will have to make two apps ("lite" and full) just to even have a chance at roping me in. What's a developer to do then?
Why create free, ad-supported apps! That way, I (the consumer) don't have to risk any money while I evaluate an app, and the developer only has to create and support one app. In the meantime, the developer gets paid every time I open the app and accidentally (or intentionally) click on an ad. Most importantly, Google makes money off of ad-supported apps. Just look at Angry Birds. Rovio has been pretty candid about their lack of motivation to create a paid version of Angry Birds. They'll get around to it eventually, but it doesn't seem to be a priority for them at the moment. Rovio gets paid every time a user opens Angry Birds, rather than just once after the initial sale. One unnamed developer of a popular ad-supported Android game told me via email, point-blank, that users who play ad-supported games in airplane mode - to block the ads - prevent the developer from getting paid. He also was concerned about piracy of paid apps, which is why he has no immediate plans to release a paid version of the popular and highly rated game. (Why would somebody pirate an app that is already free?)
Basically, I think Google is leveraging the Market as another advertising platform. The 15 minute refund window simply makes it less convenient for folks like me to pay for apps, less convenient for developers to make (and profit from) paid apps, and more convenient for developers to create free, ad-supported apps instead.
I dunno, maybe I'm just grasping for straws here. But it just makes no sense to neuter the 24-hour refund window, unless Google intends to encourage the development of more free, ad-supported apps (with ads provided by Google via AdMob). I'll be watching to see whether free, ad-supported apps become the norm over the next six months. If the Android Market moves towards an ad-supported platform, I just may have to consider moving to a different platform that encourages developers to make paid, ad-free apps. I prefer to pay for my apps so that I don't have to be subjected to ads every single time I use the app. I might be in the minority though. I think this 15 minute refund window is Google's way of nudging developers and consumers alike towards a free, ad-supported Market. Time will tell.
So, as a consumer I have no incentive to experiment with an app unless there is a "lite" version. And a developer will have to make two apps ("lite" and full) just to even have a chance at roping me in. What's a developer to do then?
Why create free, ad-supported apps! That way, I (the consumer) don't have to risk any money while I evaluate an app, and the developer only has to create and support one app. In the meantime, the developer gets paid every time I open the app and accidentally (or intentionally) click on an ad. Most importantly, Google makes money off of ad-supported apps. Just look at Angry Birds. Rovio has been pretty candid about their lack of motivation to create a paid version of Angry Birds. They'll get around to it eventually, but it doesn't seem to be a priority for them at the moment. Rovio gets paid every time a user opens Angry Birds, rather than just once after the initial sale. One unnamed developer of a popular ad-supported Android game told me via email, point-blank, that users who play ad-supported games in airplane mode - to block the ads - prevent the developer from getting paid. He also was concerned about piracy of paid apps, which is why he has no immediate plans to release a paid version of the popular and highly rated game. (Why would somebody pirate an app that is already free?)
Basically, I think Google is leveraging the Market as another advertising platform. The 15 minute refund window simply makes it less convenient for folks like me to pay for apps, less convenient for developers to make (and profit from) paid apps, and more convenient for developers to create free, ad-supported apps instead.
I dunno, maybe I'm just grasping for straws here. But it just makes no sense to neuter the 24-hour refund window, unless Google intends to encourage the development of more free, ad-supported apps (with ads provided by Google via AdMob). I'll be watching to see whether free, ad-supported apps become the norm over the next six months. If the Android Market moves towards an ad-supported platform, I just may have to consider moving to a different platform that encourages developers to make paid, ad-free apps. I prefer to pay for my apps so that I don't have to be subjected to ads every single time I use the app. I might be in the minority though. I think this 15 minute refund window is Google's way of nudging developers and consumers alike towards a free, ad-supported Market. Time will tell.