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Google phone on Verizon
- Thread starter sam007
- Start date
HookEmHorns*UT*
Well-Known Member
The LG Nexus coming to Verizon is pure speculation at this time I do believe. As for waiting till Dec 2013 for a Nexus device I am pretty sure the wait won't be that long. But if you are looking for a great device with good community support the Samsung Galaxy S3 is a great device! Besides the LG lineup will probably not have as much Developer support.
Rxpert83
Dr. Feelgood
A nexus isn't really a nexus when its on Verizon. I wouldn't be surprised if Google "punished" them by withholding it.
A nexus will have huge developer support like they always have.
A nexus will have huge developer support like they always have.
AntimonyER
CHANGED FROM AF ADDICT MIKESTONY
Yeah I am not too optimistic about another Nexus device on Verizon. Although everything is drawn up in a contract, so if Google got favorable contract terms with Verizon, including addressing the things that ticked them off with the GNex, I could see it happening again. AT&T and Sprint are getting the Optimus G, so I suppose its possible Verizon passed on it for the LG Nexus...
Digital Controller
The Real Bass Creator
You don't really have to limit yourself to Google Devices to get good support with ROM's, honestly, right now the S3 is getting great support with unlocking/roming just because it is popular. The only issue when it comes to support from Developers and ROM makers is when the device is unpopular....
Nope. Not true.
Verizon really doesn't do anything more or less than any other carrier to block rooting.
jhawkkw
Chinchillin'
It's not like verizon was the only carrier in the world to encrypt the bootloader on the galaxy s3 and galaxy note 2 or anything. But in all seriousness, big red is notorious for going the extra mile to gain as much control over anything they possibly can. Whether it be tethering, mobile payments, etc. I'm still waiting for verizon to release the first encrypted nexus phone ever to finially get everyone to see them for what they truly are.
First off, you say that as if any carrier other than the big 4 US ones matter in this discussion. They don't since the rest of the world doesn't buy phones from the carriers. And since 2 of those 4 are GSM, it's really down to Verizon and Sprint.
And by "locked down like Fort Knox", you meant "placed a minimum amount of security that was thoroughly defeated in a month after the phone was released", I believe you are grossly underestimating the security around Fort Knox. And certainly if you are a rooter, and unlocked bootloader is better than a locked on. But the actual value of an unlocked bootloader is largely exaggerated. You are still generally able to change the ROM, you just have few options and can't do things like change the Kernel or Radio (which is of minimal value on current phones).
And lastly, it doesn't matter what Verizon does with the rest of their phones. It matters what Verizon does with the one phone the OP will buy.
Ok, you guys DO realize that the OP didn't ask anything along the lines of "what carrier is best for rooting/roming", right? And that you are in the Verizon section, and the OP could have any number of reasons for wanting/needing to stay with Verizon. Just saying maybe we all should step back, and bring the topic back on track.
Citizen Coyote
Android Enthusiast
I blame Motorola for that more than Verizon. Moto screwed over Photon owners (on Sprint) and Axtrix users (on AT&T) with the latest software updates to 2.3.5. And don't get me started with the original HTC EVO's Gingerbread update that broke root for months. That phone was also on Sprint, by the way. The biggest obstacle to the dev community will always be the manufacturers.
I'm looking to get a smartphone in the next couple of weeks to replace my Nokia N900. A corporate discount makes Verizon the most cost effective option for me by far. But coming from the N900, which is a particularly open device, I'm a little worried about Verizon's reputation for locking things down. I'm not a particularly technical user, but I've enjoyed the ability to get root just by sudo gainroot, and having the ability to dual boot (or even tri-boot) my device, and ideally I'd like to do the same things with whatever my next phone is.
Does Verizon's policy of locked bootloaders make that difficult or impossible? My understanding is that some devices and/or manufacturers are more tinkering friendly than others and that the Galaxy Nexus probably leads the current pack of Verizon phones, but that device is a bit old and lacks expandable memory, which crosses it off my list.
So of the current (or coming soon devices) is there a particular consensus on which ones will have the best developer support?
*I added this to this thread since it seemed to be pretty on topic with the rest of the discussion, but if this should be a separate thread instead please feel free to move it.*
Does Verizon's policy of locked bootloaders make that difficult or impossible? My understanding is that some devices and/or manufacturers are more tinkering friendly than others and that the Galaxy Nexus probably leads the current pack of Verizon phones, but that device is a bit old and lacks expandable memory, which crosses it off my list.
So of the current (or coming soon devices) is there a particular consensus on which ones will have the best developer support?
*I added this to this thread since it seemed to be pretty on topic with the rest of the discussion, but if this should be a separate thread instead please feel free to move it.*
jhawkkw
Chinchillin'
The Galaxy Nexus and Galaxy S3 are probably the two phones with the most dev support currently for "modern" Verizon phones. There is a developer version of the Razr M, and the newly released as of today Razr HD(but not one for the maxx variant). It remains to be seen if those dev communities will be booming because the only way to get them is to pay full retail for them, while they're subsidized versions would be locked down. The Galaxy Note 2 is coming down the road somewhat soon, but if I recall correctly, that will be locked down as well. It remains to be seen if there will be a developer edition of that, though I'm sure there will be a fair amount of devs trying to do stuff with that one as well. There's a new nexus coming out soon, but all initial reports indicate that it will be gsm only, so it won't work with Verizon unfortunately.
Thanks for the info. A subsidized price is necessary to make the cost advantage of the Verizon plans worthwhile. Otherwise I'd probably just by an unlocked GSM phone and go with a T-Mobile prepaid plan for $30-50 a month.
So what exactly does "locked down" mean in a practical sense for Verizon phones? I understand that there is a locked bootloader, but I've also read that there are ways to get around that? But if I can't get around that, how much does it limit me? I don't really have a good idea of how much a custom rom for instance really changes the workings of Android, are they mostly just superficial types of things, or are there roms that are essentially an entirely different OS. For instance I'd love to be able to eventually install something that behaved more like WebOS, or maybe Tizen, or B2G, is that possible with roms, or is it really more just changing the launcher and/or putting a different skin on the same underlying Android? But that's more of a wishlist thing, I assume that with most of these phones that even though they are locked down, there are still ways to do things like uninstall bloatware, sideload apps, etc...
The phones I'm most interested in are the Note 2 (yay stylus!) and the Droid 4 (yay physical keyboard!). I'm guessing the Note 2 will probably be the one with the better developer support?
AntimonyER
CHANGED FROM AF ADDICT MIKESTONY
Well, even with a locked bootloader, custom Roms are still available. Unlocked bootloaders just give you the ability to also change radios and kernels seperately. But for example, the bootloader on the S3, while locked on all carrier's phones, was only encrypted on Verizon's, limiting the development for it. That is the biggest hit you get with a locked down phone, is reduced interest in development. Since you mentioned you were interested in a phone with more developer support, Verizon's actions means the same phone on their network will be less supported than one on a less restrictive carrier.
jhawkkw
Chinchillin'
A big signal for developer support is if a device can be fitted with a custom recovery. If it can't, then you can almost consider it's dev support DOA. If it can, it then comes down to the popularity of the device. Sometimes it takes a while for the devs to figure out how to get custom recovery on it, but once it happens, the sky opens up greatly.
Developer support is important to me, but it is all relative, and unfortunately developer support comes below more important things like overall lifetime cost. And the hardware needs to be able to meet certain basic standards like removable battery and removable storage (bonus points for devices with hardware keyboards and/or a stylus). But developer support, and the customization possibilities that come with it are still pretty important.
Given he fact that I'll likely buy a phone soon after it is released; are there manufacturers that are known for having phones that are easier to hack, or is it more of a crap shoot?
Given he fact that I'll likely buy a phone soon after it is released; are there manufacturers that are known for having phones that are easier to hack, or is it more of a crap shoot?
jhawkkw
Chinchillin'
At this point, anything new that gets released that's isn't a nexus or specifically denoted developer edition will probably come encrypted for Verizon phones. Motorola is probably the biggest offender on encryption. They only thing that remains to be seen is how heavy it is and that can only be determined after it has been released for a couple of days. If light enough, and custom recovery can be loaded, then the kexec method can be used to load custom ROMs, but still leaves you out of luck for kernels and radio firmware.
Which is fairly unimportant now of days.
jhawkkw
Chinchillin'
Kernels are minor in the overall scheme of things but can make a huge difference on a device. It's scary how a bad kernel can cause a good device to hemorrhage battery life even in standby or deep sleep, or make it so a device loses maybe 1-2% battery overnight because of how it manages everything.
jova33
Android Expert
It wasn't easily defeated. Someone leaked the bootloader or whatever. No one hacked it or defeated the encryption. If no one leaked what was needed, the S3 on Verizon would still have a locked bootloader.
But yeah, Verizon likes to have complete control and charge extra for stuff that should be free. Tethering for example. Google wallet that Verizon hates for some reason.
And the fact that Verizon phones with only ever work on their network. Except for a small few that have global capabilities, but I think you would have to do some hacking to get them to work on T-Mobile or AT&T.
Edit: on topic, I'd really like to see the LG Nexus on Verizon, but I could see it not happening. And if you notice, your Verizon GNex doesn't say Google on the back cover, it says Verizon.