Google, Stop! Just PERFECT It!

[Yeahha]

I have the Telus LG Shine Plus. You can go to the Android Forums sub-forum and see the grief we have gone through the last 5 months. When I was first introduced to Android about a year ago, I was lead to believe that the OS would get updated. I now understand that not to be true. If I am going to pay Nexus money, I would have bought the iPhone instead.

But your phone has received updates. It was released on 2.1 and is running 2.3.3 now...IMO that is pretty good seeing as it has weaker hardware compared to most phones that are out now.

Regardless of whatever OS you choose..if you want the latest and greatest or you want your chances of being updated to the next version of the OS you will need to pay for a near top of the line phone when you get it.

 

[IOWA]

I have the Telus LG Shine Plus. You can go to the Android Forums sub-forum and see the grief we have gone through the last 5 months. When I was first introduced to Android about a year ago, I was lead to believe that the OS would get updated. I now understand that not to be true. If I am going to pay Nexus money, I would have bought the iPhone instead.

I have to ask, why were you led to believe you would have all OS updates instantly, or free? If you had to pay to update, would you? That how it is on every other OS in existence.

Moving from 2.1 to 2.3 is pretty darn good IMO, as Yeahha stated.

But here's a question for you. What exactly do you want from these updates that you don't have already?

Oh, also a +1 for getting what you pay for. If you want the updates, getting the latest available hardware is a great way to ensure that.

 

[aysiu]

I have to ask, why were you led to believe you would have all OS updates instantly, or free?

People have this expectation because iOS gets updates inclusive of the price (I hesitate to use the word free in this context).

If you had to pay to update, would you?

Maybe people would, but the manufacturers don't even give that option. It comes either OTA or it doesn't. There's no "If you pay $30, you'll get an official update from HTC or Motorola" option. Rooting and installing a custom rom doesn't count... and some phones don't even get that much long-term support in terms of custom roms--depends on how popular the phone model is to attract developer interest.

That how it is on every other OS in existence.

I get your point here, but that's technically not true--think Linux or certain BSD distros. You basically mean Windows and Mac OS X, right? Even iOS you don't have to pay for new OS updates, only new phones.

Moving from 2.1 to 2.3 is pretty darn good IMO, as Yeahha stated.

Yes, this is true. Anybody on 2.2 or 2.3 should have no complaints. 2.1 is a bit old, as is 1.6... or 1.5. Don't know if anyone's using 1.5.

But here's a question for you. What exactly do you want from these updates that you don't have already?

I think for most people who complain about updates, it's more about not having the latest than it is about any specific missing feature.

Oh, also a +1 for getting what you pay for.

I disagree. Yes, my Galaxy Nexus was expensive, but there are other US$300 phones that will not get updates as soon as they come out.

If you want the updates, getting the latest available hardware is a great way to ensure that.

Actually, if you want the updates, get a Nexus phone, or get another popular model and be willing to root your phone.

 

[IOWA]

People have this expectation because iOS gets updates inclusive of the price (I hesitate to use the word free in this context).

So does Android, at least 1.5 years worth of support/upgrades(according to the agreement Google has with Google experience manufacturers) . iOS gets 2 updates. After that it's pay to play on iOS.

Maybe people would, but the manufacturers don't even give that option. It comes either OTA or it doesn't. There's no "If you pay $30, you'll get an official update from HTC or Motorola" option. Rooting and installing a custom rom doesn't count... and some phones don't even get that much long-term support in terms of custom roms--depends on how popular the phone model is to attract developer interest.

Most likely because they know most people wouldn't want to pay for the update, so they don't even bother.

I get your point here, but that's technically not true--think Linux or certain BSD distros. You basically mean Windows and Mac OS X, right? Even iOS you don't have to pay for new OS updates, only new phones.

Those aren't commercial operating systems, and to get iOS updates past 2 updates, yes you do have to pay. (If the device can handle it, that is.)

Yes, this is true. Anybody on 2.2 or 2.3 should have no complaints. 2.1 is a bit old, as is 1.6... or 1.5. Don't know if anyone's using 1.5.

Your device has 2.3 firmware available IIRC....

I think for most people who complain about updates, it's more about not having the latest than it is about any specific missing feature.

So people want the latest, but don't even know what it is? I know that's the way it is, but I can't say I understand that...

I disagree. Yes, my Galaxy Nexus was expensive, but there are other US$300 phones that will not get updates as soon as they come out. Actually, if you want the updates, get a Nexus phone, or get another popular model and be willing to root your phone.

There is nothing wrong with rooting your phone, and the fact is most people don't care about updates, or even know what version operating system they are running. Most people stuck on 2.1/2.2 etc are happy with what they have, and companies can't go around catering to the vast minorities needs.

Do I want the latest and greatest? Absolutely.

But just to throw out a reality check, Apple's iOS vs Google's Android are two completely different beasts. Two completely different animals. And if you really want to get technical, not one of Apple's iPhone's run the same exact software, despite being only one manufacturer, and only 5 handsets.

Furthermore, when you buy a budget handset you can't possibly expect the same level of performance, updates, and supports as the top-tier handsets. I'm not even sure ICS on your hardware would even function properly to be honest.

But there is nothing stopping you from taking matters into your own hands and updating it yourself.

We are here to help you, and help you make the most out of your device. As someone who had to be on the 'bleeding edge' with updates and such, I've learned that it's not always all that it's cracked up to be.

Like I said before, we are here to help you. I myself am quite knowledgeable about Android and rooting techniques, and I'd be glad to help you maximize the use of your device. I am sure many others here would be willing to help you as well without asking anything in return. That's what AndroidForums is all about. I really dislike when people are unsatisfied with their Android experience.

If you need help maximizing your device, I found a great, helpful, thorough, and concise thread that can help you get the most out of your device.

All Things Root - LG Shine Plus

If you need any extra help, let me or other staffers know and we'll most certainly help you turn your Android experience around.

-Regards,

-IOWA

 

[funpig]

I have to ask, why were you led to believe you would have all OS updates instantly, or free? If you had to pay to update, would you? That how it is on every other OS in existence.

Moving from 2.1 to 2.3 is pretty darn good IMO, as Yeahha stated.

But here's a question for you. What exactly do you want from these updates that you don't have already?

Oh, also a +1 for getting what you pay for. If you want the updates, getting the latest available hardware is a great way to ensure that.

When I bought my Android phone, I was a noob. I had not even heard of Android before. The sales person assured me that the OS on all Android phones would be updated over time. The open system was touted as one that fully supported its phones. I did not know then what I know now, that an Android phone OS was so dependent on the manufacturer. It is a bit disingenuous to tell me a year later that I bought the wrong phone if I wanted updates. Even now some higher end Android phones are being offered for sale with no clear explanation that the phone will be properly supported.

Feel free to go to the Shine Plus website and you can see for yourself what happened. My phone shipped with 2.1 at the end of 2010/beginning of 2011. For months, there were posts, rumours and emails from Telus or LG with demands and promises first for 2.2 and then later 2.3. Dates were given by either Telus or LG reps for when the new update would come out. These dates passed and new promises were made. Sound familiar? You see the same sort of threads and experience for many other Android phones in this Forum. In about Oct, 2011, LG posted a 2.3 update for my phone. It was a disaster. Some features were lost, there was a black screen freeze problem and some phones were bricked. I had to get my phone replaced under warranty (back to 2.1). After about 6 weeks, LG pulled the 2.3 update (so I am still running 2.1 not 2.3) and LG has been silent ever since. I doubt very much that there will be any more support for this phone.

Having converted from Palm (I used Palm for about ten years and a Treo for five years) to Android and having invested in some Android apps, I do not relish the thought of converting to Apple even though I am very impressed by my wife's new to her 3GS. I have looked at upgrading my phone and have been researching a Sony Experia Ray. Telus is touting the Ray as an ics upgradeable phone. This is food for thought:

Sony Mobile discusses the pros and cons of upgrading to ICS | Xperia Blog

Learn about the technical differences between Gingerbread and ICS [Updated] — Developer World

I have to thank Sony for being so forthright. I am going to proceed more carefully with my next purchase. The reality is that there are alot of Android phones being made out there and IMO some of them are crappy. Rather than fix or support the crappy phone, it appears the recommended route is to buy a new one. No wonder so many Android phones are being sold.

 

[jefboyardee]

All they have to do is offer an authorized root... and pigs will fly out of my arse.

 

[Adam MR Smith]

While we have come to know that each upgrade of Android (1.5-4.0) has brought a new UI and changes each time, what we also know is that they have all been improvements and we've ended up with the beautiful ICS. Can it be enhanced visually? I'd say not, it's simple yet bursting with content and innovation. Google have finally created an OS experience that rivals iOS. Google's next release 5.0 (Jelly Bean) may not bring any visual difference but stability and a load of new features (Google Assistant), such as iOS does (notifications and all the other add ons 5.0 brought)

Google have ICS, they have spent countless hours really thinking about what the user needs, what kind of experience they want for the consumer and have created an ideal solution.

Now they have this new foundation, I hope they simply build on top and really unify all their services.

 

[Yeahha]

Welcome to AF Adam MR Smith.

I don't think Android has reached it's peak visually yet. There are plenty of things that can be done to make it better IMO (most you can do on a rooted phone but IMO they should be capable stock) For example why not allow the user to define the color scheme? I personally liked the green from GB better than the blue from ICS. Doing this alone would make it much easier to make a theme on your phone. Another example could be user defined toggles in the notification bar...available on custom roms why not stock?

Once the next version of android comes out there will be plenty of people who can't wait to upgrade because the look and feel of ICS has grown old and there is a feature or two they can't wait to get.

 

[chanchan05]

When I bought my Android phone, I was a noob. I had not even heard of Android before. The sales person assured me that the OS on all Android phones would be updated over time. The open system was touted as one that fully supported its phones. I did not know then what I know now, that an Android phone OS was so dependent on the manufacturer. It is a bit disingenuous to tell me a year later that I bought the wrong phone if I wanted updates. Even now some higher end Android phones are being offered for sale with no clear explanation that the phone will be properly supported.

Its the sales persons fault. He sold you wrong. Its like telling you that when you bought a Kia Picanto, you can upgrade it to use a V8 engine someday. The hardware is simply too weak. You don't expect Skyrim to run on an HP Mini or a 10inch netbook right? Same reason why you shouldn't expect the latest Android OS should be able to be sent to it.

iPhones are also a poor comparison. At the time of selling, the iPhones have the hardware level of flagship Android phones, thus you can expect the two year update window, same as flagship Android phones. For low end weak Android phones, updates aren't really expected. If you want Androids to be like iOS where all recent phones will be updated, the solution is simple: Stop making low end Android phones and concentrate on the high end ones like the Galaxy SII and similarly priced units. The end result of this is that you woudn't be able to afford a smartphone (basing on the fact that you bought a cheap phone, I assume you can't afford a more powerful Android or an iPhone).

Feel free to go to the Shine Plus website and you can see for yourself what happened. My phone shipped with 2.1 at the end of 2010/beginning of 2011. For months, there were posts, rumours and emails from Telus or LG with demands and promises first for 2.2 and then later 2.3. Dates were given by either Telus or LG reps for when the new update would come out. These dates passed and new promises were made. Sound familiar? You see the same sort of threads and experience for many other Android phones in this Forum. In about Oct, 2011, LG posted a 2.3 update for my phone. It was a disaster. Some features were lost, there was a black screen freeze problem and some phones were bricked. I had to get my phone replaced under warranty (back to 2.1). After about 6 weeks, LG pulled the 2.3 update (so I am still running 2.1 not 2.3) and LG has been silent ever since. I doubt very much that there will be any more support for this phone.

This is in no way Google's fault. They just release the OS, and its the manufacturer's decision if they update their phones or not. Its like Google throwing a party and putting some Ice Cream on the table for everyone to try. Its up to the parents(manufacturers) if they let their kids(phone models) eat ice cream, because they are the ones who know if their kids have lactose intolerance (incompatible hardware).

You asking for the ICS update for your phone is like asking Apple to give the iOS 5 to the iPhone 3GS, or trying to run Skyrim on a netbook with a 1.6Ghz processor and no GPU. In a similar scenario, if you want to play Skyrim on a laptop, you have to spend up. If you want to get the updates for your phone, you have to spend up.

Manufacturers don't really care about the low end devices like your Shine. They just put it out there for more money, especially since low end devices obviously won't be getting much updates if at all. Its expected. The "too weak hardware" is a valid excuse, as well as "You get what you pay for".

Having converted from Palm (I used Palm for about ten years and a Treo for five years) to Android and having invested in some Android apps, I do not relish the thought of converting to Apple even though I am very impressed by my wife's new to her 3GS. I have looked at upgrading my phone and have been researching a Sony Experia Ray. Telus is touting the Ray as an ics upgradeable phone. This is food for thought:

Sony Mobile discusses the pros and cons of upgrading to ICS | Xperia Blog

Learn about the technical differences between Gingerbread and ICS [Updated]

 

[Kie]

I cannot imagine a world where Android didn't keep updating. What would we do with ourselves?! Ice Cream Sandwich is just another stepping stone on the road to dessert heaven! Jellybean (which will unfortunately be JB, already used for jailbreak and jailbait, depending on your interests) will be even more amazing!

 

[atljatl]

I cannot imagine a world where Android didn't keep updating. What would we do with ourselves?! Ice Cream Sandwich is just another stepping stone on the road to dessert heaven! Jellybean (which will unfortunately be JB, already used for jailbreak and jailbait, depending on your interests) will be even more amazing!

Very funny parenthetical humour.

 

[funpig]

This is in no way Google's fault. They just release the OS, and its the manufacturer's decision if they update their phones or not. Its like Google throwing a party and putting some Ice Cream on the table for everyone to try. Its up to the parents(manufacturers) if they let their kids(phone models) eat ice cream, because they are the ones who know if their kids have lactose intolerance (incompatible hardware).

You asking for the ICS update for your phone is like asking Apple to give the iOS 5 to the iPhone 3GS

I never blamed Google. Smartphones are a marriage of the OS, hardware, software and service carriers to create the whole Android ecosystem and to make it work properly on a particlular phone. Unfortunately, IMO, some of the Android hardware can be hit or miss. I have no delusions that my lowly Shine Plus could be updated to ICS or ad infinitem into the future, but the reasonable expectation was to go to 2.3 or at least 2.2. LG specifically promised this and put out a 2.3 update, but when it did not work they just pulled it, gave up and now there is no further support, all within one year of purchasing the phone. I am willing to bet in the next few months you will see more than a few posts from 2.3 owners with a similar experience who are going to be clammering for the 4.0 update, complaining that they don't get it in a timely manner or complaining when they do. Been there done that.

And FYI, my son just picked up a free Iphone 3GS from telus (my wife got one last week) and it has just been activated and also updated to iOS 5.1 (official update, not jailbroken). And it works, just google the reviews on 5.1.

 

[Martimus]

And FYI, my son just picked up a free Iphone 3GS from telus (my wife got one last week) and it has just been activated and also updated to iOS 5.1 (official update, not jailbroken). And it works, just google the reviews on 5.1.

I suspect where chanchan05 may have been going with the presented analogy was to point out IOS 5.1 compatibility with older iPhones. While it is true that IOS 5.1 is compatible with the iPhone 3GS, the same cannot be said of the iPhone 3G.

What Devices Are iOS 5 Compatible?

Support for the iPhone 3G supposedly ended with IOS 4.3 which was released over a year ago. At the time I believe the iPhone 3G was less than 3 years old.

With respect to the Android OS, Google does not manage the life cycle of Android Smartphones. This is typically managed by the wireless carrier and the hardware manufacturer. Google's piece of the puzzle is to provide the OS. So I suspect it fair to say that the salesperson who sold you your smartphone was most likely the one who led you astray.

Given that it's in the carriers best interest to get you to replace your smartphone, they typically do not provide long product life cycles. After all, if they did, most smartphone owners would refrain from purchasing a new handset when their contract ends. After all, why buy something new when the handset in your hand does everything you want it to?

 

[davidchsw]

Take LG to small claims court. Learn and move on.

 

[funpig]

While it is true that IOS 5.1 is compatible with the iPhone 3GS, the same cannot be said of the iPhone 3G.

Apple not updating a phone (3G) that is 4 years old and no longer being sold can hardly be an indictment. When Apple rolled out iOS 5.1, approximately 60% of all iphones were updated to the new OS within days. ICS has been out for more than 4 months and yet the penetration is less than 2%. The 3GS for my wife and son are new to us. But judging from the reviews by 3GS owners, the latest 5.1 update was like getting a new phone for their 3 year old phone.

I appreciate that there are certain hardware requirements to run ICS (and as I said before I am not under the delusion that my lowly phone will run it). But there are many Android phones currently sold which meet those 4.0 requirements. However, there seems to be much uncertainty as to whether a particlular phone will be updated at all, when it will be updated and whether the update will even work properly. (eg see blog on Sony Xperia pros and cons of ICS).

My experience with my lowly Android with LG's aborted attempt to update to 2.3 is one but probably not an isolated example. My 2.1 phone still works for what it is, but it was extremely disappointing that LG has not delivered on the promised 2.3 update. I fully expected to get features like app2SD and google voice search etc. When you are promised something and it not followed through, frankly, you feel ripped off. You would not want to go through the same experience with your current 2.3 (or 4.0 or what have you) phone.

Rooting is an option. But if I buy a new car, I do not expect that I need to become an auto mechanic to fix it myself. Also, the root community is phone dependent. Even one of the leading root contributors for my particular phone has become frustrated and has tried to lead an email campaign against LG/Telus to fix the OS on our phone.

Going back to the opening post of this thread, I think this is a legitimate complaint/observation. Users should hold Android manufacturers feet to the fire (I do not blame Google). The next version of Android is probably around the corner (Jelly Bean?). Are Android manufacturers going to support the current (2.3, 4.0) phones in your hands or are they more interested in just selling you a new one?

I believe that individual premium Android phones can certainly be as good if not better than Apple as each leapfrogs the other over time. However, with so many Android manufacturers and models, while there is more choice, there is also more risk of crap, lack of support or delay. So if I am guilty of anything, I am guilty of failing to take care when I chose my phone (or manufacturer).

 

[aysiu]

Going back to the opening post of this thread, I think this is a legitimate complaint/observation. Users should hold Android manufacturers feet to the fire. The next version of Android is probably around the corner (Jelly Bean?). Are Android manufacturers going to support the current (2.3, 4.0) phones in your hands or are they more interested in just selling you a new one?

The only way I can see people holding the manufacturers' feet to the fire is with money. Money talks... at least to corporations. How can you get them to care about updates? If people start buying only Nexus phones. If Nexus phones are selling like hotcakes, and other phones aren't, then HTC, Motorola, LG, and even Samsung (which sells the current Nexus phone) will start pushing those updates out a lot more quickly.

 

[SamuraiBigEd]

While we have come to know that each upgrade of Android (1.5-4.0) has brought a new UI and changes each time, what we also know is that they have all been improvements and we've ended up with the beautiful ICS. Can it be enhanced visually? I'd say not, it's simple yet bursting with content and innovation. Google have finally created an OS experience that rivals iOS. Google's next release 5.0 (Jelly Bean) may not bring any visual difference but stability and a load of new features (Google Assistant), such as iOS does (notifications and all the other add ons 5.0 brought)

Google have ICS, they have spent countless hours really thinking about what the user needs, what kind of experience they want for the consumer and have created an ideal solution.

Now they have this new foundation, I hope they simply build on top and really unify all their services.

I apologize ahead of time if I am mis-reading your statement but notifications was copied directly from Android, this is something we have had from day one.

 

[!on]

The only way I can see people holding the manufacturers' feet to the fire is with money. Money talks... at least to corporations. How can you get them to care about updates? If people start buying only Nexus phones. If Nexus phones are selling like hotcakes, and other phones aren't, then HTC, Motorola, LG, and even Samsung (which sells the current Nexus phone) will start pushing those updates out a lot more quickly.

Yes. Some of these manufacturers have been SAVED by android. So google should lean on them a bit more to update. Yes, many of these handsets are not designated to have future updates, but I believe these manufacturers have underestimated how popular some of their own handsets have become. Take mine for example, moto defy - there were some flaws to iron out & some enhancements to make, but mostly due to it's popularity, there are now a few defy models coming out. So why can't we have updates?

Most of the time it's because manufacturers are producing for NETWORKS & the networks don't know (or care) about updates they just wanna sell units. But it's because of android / google we have such popular handsets, so networks, take note!!

 

[mikedt]

Yes. Some of these manufacturers have been SAVED by android.

Yeh, and many manufacturers have been KILLED by Android, nearly all in Shenzhen. Far too many companies making generic commodity Android devices.

...from my sig..
There are nine million bicycles in Beijing.
There are nine million Android tablet makers in Shenzhen.

So google should lean on them a bit more to update.

Google can only really do that with the branded Nexus devices. As I've already posted many times on here, what a manufacturer does with Android has nothing to do with Google. Android is open source, released under various free liberal open source software licenses, GPL, LGPL, BSD, Apache, etc.

Google could possibly tighten up on the "With Google" products, that have Play, Maps, Gmail, etc. Maybe they'll do that with future versions, a condition of having "With Google" on products, manufacturers could be made to provide timely updates, where feasible.

 

[zuben el genub]

I have a used Nexus S - was surprised when the update to ICS came along so fast.
Took TMO a while to get GB on the SGS4G.

That said - when a new version of Android comes out I wish that some reviewer would give you the whole picture. It's just usually how the "fluff" will work. I read rumors about ICS enabling you to get rid of/not run what you don't need. Never saw any comments about that, how it worked, etc. It does do what it says on the Nexus, but how about a branded phone?

I don't think I'd want automatic updates to the OS. I remember MS and some real clunkers - namely ME and recently Vista. Anyone can make a mistake.

 

[mikedt]

I don't think I'd want automatic updates to the OS. I remember MS and some real clunkers - namely ME and recently Vista. Anyone can make a mistake.

Well you do have to pay for a new version of Windows, it's certainly not an automatic update, same with Mac OS X. Also a PC might not even be capable of running a newer OS, because it doesn't have enough RAM or CPU, etc, e.g. my old Win XP Pentium 4 office PC. Like with phones, e.g. Galaxy Ace and ICS.

On the other hand Service Packs (SPs) and other updates are rolled out and installed automatically. You wake up in the morning, find your PC has rebooted, oh look it's had a load of updates and maybe an SP. These can occasionally break things, like applications and hardware drivers. I remember Win XP SP1 breaking a lot of things and causing problems.

I bought a new laptop last summer, plugged it in, almost first thing it did was to download and install Win 7 SP1 by itself.

Many enterprise users will hold back on updates and SPs until they've properly tested them and they're certain nothing is going to break, e.g. an application that's essential to their business.

 

[tgm1024]

Carriers have a huge say in bootloaders just as much as manufacturers, so it's not all Google's fault there.

I believe that *is* Google's fault. They left the licensing far too open....that was theirs to control from the beginning. Open source or not, they own the brand, and they could have legally locked down whether or not phones conform to that brand.

There is nothing wrong with infinite tailoring, (optional apps, etc.) but it should not come with arbitrary immutable stuff out of the box by manufacturers. At least IMO.

I mean, an NFL app I can't uninstall from my DROID 4?

Perhaps there was a certain chicken and egg problem here: maybe they wouldn't have gained wide acceptance without leaving so very much open to the manufacturers, but if they didn't leave the licensing open to later lock down, they really should have.

 

[tgm1024]

I bought a new laptop last summer, plugged it in, almost first thing it did was to download and install Win 7 SP1 by itself.

I generally recommend this technique for things from BestBuy where their grunts can't keep their hands off of "optimizing" it. Also, I've done that technique on my Dell systems: I don't like how Dell co-opted the help mechanism for example out of the box, and as a result didn't fully trust the rest of the installed hooey.

 

[mikedt]

I generally recommend this technique for things from BestBuy where their grunts can't keep their hands off of "optimizing" it. Also, I've done that technique on my Dell systems: I don't like how Dell co-opted the help mechanism for example out of the box, and as a result didn't fully trust the rest of the installed hooey.

The laptop actually come from Broadway in Hong Kong, a well-known brick'n'mortar tech store there. The only thing I really specified about the OS, is that I wanted it in English and not Chinese. They ran the initial setup in-store.

Came very much as I wanted it, no bloat or demos or junk, Hat's off to Fujitsu for that, totally unlike a Sony Vaio laptop I bought previously. Had to re-install the OS clean on that one to get it running as I wanted, came with so much junk.

 

[mikedt]

I mean, an NFL app I can't uninstall from my DROID 4?

Probably because NFL pays the manufacturer and/or carrier to embed their app on the phone. An agreement between NFL and Motorola, Sprint, Verizon, AT&T or whatever.

One I've come across recently is Facebook that can't be uninstalled, not without rooting. FB on a phone is useless here, yet it was draining the battery, using mobile data and lagging the phone.