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I know several people who are going to jump to ATT

Yep, that's it. Phone store employees are inherently clueless ... but then again, most retail sales employees are nowadays.

It's particularly galling in the cell phone market, because you can almost always get better deals on phones by avoiding the stores and shopping online. So knowledgeable shoppers will visit the retail stores to choose their phone, but then go home and actually buy it online. Doesn't seem like an efficient system from anyone's perspective, but that's the way it is.

If you buy it online or through phone sales and have it shipped, you have to deal with shipping the phone back for returns. The one benefit of the store is you can pack up the phone, walk in the store, and return it. I would agree, though, that the stores don't seem that useful, however every time I'm in one "test driving" different phones, the place is packed with people actually working with salesmen or getting support at the service desk. It's shocking how busy these stores are. Plenty of the 90 million still seem to like walking into a store instead of dealing with a website. Not me.
 
I think for a lot of people -- the majority, really -- technology is still a scary thing, and when they need to venture into the frightening world of cell phones they want someone holding their hand along the way. It's a psychological comfort, even if their so-called guide is nearly as clueless as they are.

I think most of us are self-assured (or geeky) enough that we'll happily order online and save the cash ... but we're probably not typical.
 
It seems like they're probably getting it rolled out as soon as they can. And VZW has mended its ways a little bit on crippling features and such.

I think it's fair to judge VZW strictly on its ability to get the phone out, and to hold it accountable for timeliness.

But a lot of the complaints have a pathetic, fanboyish quality that make it sound like VZW doesn't respect us, or just doesn't "get it."

I think VZW sees itself in a war to take down the iPhone and is doing its best. Whether that's good enough, the market will decide. But I think we're getting a maximal effort, thanks to good ol capitalistic competition.
 
I think it's naive to think that Verizon (or any other huge corporation) honestly "respects" us as individuals ... just as it would be silly to say that they're deliberately toying with us by delaying software upgrades.

As a corporation, they have only one goal -- to maximize shareholder value. In the past, they've been confident enough about their market position that they've been able to get away with some really poor behavior in pursuit of that shareholder value. But now the competitive pressure is on, so they have to work a little harder. From our standpoint, that helps a lot ... but they're still not going to move heaven and earth to please the power users, because it would cost them too much. Shareholder value again.

So really, what we should all do is hope like crazy for the continued market success of AT&T and the iPhone ... because it will keep Verizon competing, and on its toes. Otherwise, it'll be too financially appealing for them to go back to their old ways.
 
Get the iPhone then. IMHO the iPhone and Android OS are as different as night and day. They do many of the same things but in completely different ways. If you like the iPhone then there's a high probability that you won't really like Android anyway. Personally, the iPhone OS is wayyyyy too limiting for me. I got bored with it in one week. :(
 
Want to hear something kind of funny? I helped someone in a sprint store make a decision on either a Blackberry or a Hero. (He got the Blackberry, simply because it's a little bit easier to use and it's more inclined for business use rather than personal, which was what he needed)

He was still kind of looking between like 8 phones with a sort of confused look on his face after he talked to a sales rep almost as if to say, "Well sh#t... that was no help." I walked over and just kind of started up normal conversation with him. I know a little bit of what the blackberry can do, and a little bit of what our phones can do. By knowing bits of each phone instead of trying to make a sales quota, I felt I knew more than the employees.

Turns out though, he did need something with a little more inclination on business use rather than personal. Sadly, as much as I wanted to convert him, I had to tell him the black berry would have been better for him. That and the fact that this dude was 47. My dad's 43 and he's considered dropping his Moment for his old Nextel i850. (Yes, that is the equivalent of a flip-brick)

I wish that the EMPLOYEES were smarter than *most* of the customers that they sell to. I feel that it's good to help others out when in need, but those who's job it is to do this should be able to do it better than some random person, I.E. me.

The dude (I think his name was Jeff or something...) was just PUSHING this dude towards the palm pre. He kind of took what ever input the man had and twisted it around to make it seem like he wanted it. That's not right.

When I helped him, the first thing I asked him was "What phone do like the best so far?" followed up with "Well, what do you need your phone to do?". Those, I believe, should be sales etiquette standard questions that are asked immediately.
<rant><mood="annoyed">
The way most sales monkeys in any cell phone store address customers is:


--"Hey there! Looking for a new phone today?"

--"*Insert un-certain customer input here*"

--"Alright, well I want you to take a look at *insert newest phone name here*"

--"I don't really know about this one... I kind of like this other one."

~~~walk over to customer's desired phone~~~
~~~At this point, the monkey will begin to make a mini-rant on all the things that this model can't do and will begin to slowly meander down to the highlight phone~~~

"Now this one here, the *insert newest phone name here*, CAN do *insert mentioned shortcomings*."


That's more or less the way that a sale monkey tried to pressured me into buying the Palm Pre. It felt kind of cheap to me, the phone was un-impressive on a whole, and the keyboard straight sucked. I wanted my Moment, and I had to assert myself to the dude trying to sell me on the Pre that this was what I wanted. I shouldn't have to do that. They're getting a sale and a customer. The only thing it did for me was show me what kind of a grease ball the dude really was. </rant>

 
If VZW doesn't announce a specific launch date for the VZW Nexus One, I know of at least 10 people that are going give up and go with the Iphone.

Sounds like you need to be making your ultimatums to Verizon not us. Make them beg you to stay, I don't care if you get an iPhone. I hope you live in the DC area so that you will be using AT&T's infrastructure instead of mine because I will continue to download ridiculous amounts of data (petabytes of LOLcats even) for no reason other than because I can and I don't want folks with a sense of entitlement clogging up my network with N1 nonsense.
 
I know MOST retail employees are idiots...but I am one and I would like to say that I'm a pretty intelligent guy when it comes to mobile tech. I mean...if you take a gander around my department you see the people who don't know the difference between Sense, MotoBlur and vanilla android. I just wanted to throw out that every once in a while you'll find a guy who knows what he or she's doing. Every once in a very long while.
 
See you people have it all wrong about these Verizon employees, the problem is most of them know just as much as all of us do from all the forums. What you have to understand is, the business there in they have to see whats available, if every person came in and said hey I hear the N1 is coming to Verizon next month and the employee said yes it is, he would loose sales left in right, and they would never be able to sell whats on the floor. Now if you know for a fact a single product is coming just wait, and if you cant wait jump ship and go to at&t, just dont come crying back and saying ohhh i guess i should have waited. Quit your bitching and stop blaming it on the employees, its there job to sell whats available now, and not what could be available 3 or 4 months down the road.
 
I know 10 people that don't give a darn what phone comes out when and would never leave Verizon.

See how that works?
 
I know 10 people that don't give a darn what phone comes out when and would never leave Verizon.

See how that works?

My family has been with verizon for almost 10 or so years now. Never once did we consider a change. They have consistently been the best provider in my area, and all my friends wish that they were on verizon. If I ever have issues, there are 4 stores within 10 miles of me, and they have always been able to help. They have never asked questions when my phone breaks, and have replaced them on-site. I have had 4 different phones with them, and plan on having phones with them for as long as they continue to be the best.

If att has the phones you want, have good service in your area, and you dont travel, then go for it. They cost the same, so its really a matter of phone preference and service.

I spend two month of my year in northern Wisconsin where cell phone service is often questionable. Many of my friends that travel with me there have att and get almost no service for two month. When I first went, I had no service with Verizon up there, but this was also before good cell phones, so landline was ok. Once cell phones become more usefull for me, i sent a request to them and the next year there was a huge tower within a mile of where I stay. It is a verizon only cell tower :p. My ATT friends still get spotty service, and I get perfect reception....

edit: I also had poor service by my house because I live in an HOA. There were no cell towers in the hoa, because he damn hoa board wouldn't approve a plan. they finally did, and now Verizon just put new towers in my neighbor hood. The new towers are cool, they are half tower half light post, so they just replaced the street lights, no unsightly cell towers. They are also bringing fios to my neighbor hood, so verzion is a great option for me.
 
I know 10 people that don't give a darn what phone comes out when and would never leave Verizon.

See how that works?

You've probably startled the OP now.

And while you were doing that I began to wonder how many of the ten people he says he knows know him.

Perhaps he is one of those marbles that fell off the coverage map in the AT&T commercial.
 
I know MOST retail employees are idiots...but I am one and I would like to say that I'm a pretty intelligent guy when it comes to mobile tech. I mean...if you take a gander around my department you see the people who don't know the difference between Sense, MotoBlur and vanilla android. I just wanted to throw out that every once in a while you'll find a guy who knows what he or she's doing. Every once in a very long while.

Have you ever considered moving to Montana? It's gorgeous up here, and my local Verizon store really needs someone who's not an idiot there. :)
 
Well I'm thinking of jumping to Verizon and I have an iPhone. I love the iPhone, but AT&T is getting to me- My apt and work building get spotty reception. I've missed loads of calls from the gf, friends, coworkers, bosses. I know all the smokers in my apt because if I want to make a call with a reliable connection, I go outside. I am surprised and delighted when I can get a connection- I don't assume that I can make a call or connect to the internet- that's how unreliable it is at the places I need it the most.

I would tell the OP friends to see what the service is like- I know these smartphones are all about converging devices, but I am seriously thinking about a Droid/Nexus One and a iPod touch combo over a iPhone.
 
Not planning on leaving verizon anytime soon. I know this at&t fanboy whos got the iphone and swears by it and at&t. we in the car and all the sudden his phone drops from EDGE to GPRS while im still watching youtube over verizons EVDO. Mind you this was pretty rural. ive had trouble finding areas where i dont get coverage or where im roaming. only roamed once while in wisconsin where as one post put cellular service in general gets pretty questionable. Still trying to see what it looks like to roam or.have no service on my droid!
 
I can see having the hope that Verizon woud see this and think about their actions, but they have (demons, oops I mean) actuaries to figure out how many people will leave or stay as a result of their (in)action.

Rest assured, if they do something to piss you off, they've run the equations and had an idea of what may happen so if you leave, they're OK with it.
 
You never know. VZW corporate may be monitoring this thread. Yeah.

I'm thinking that they are just folks with cell phone devices just like we are, and thus they are around the forums for their devices, too, just like we are.

My guess is that they are likely forbidden to identify themselves as Verizon people in the forums.

Of course, I am making the assumption that Verizon people know how to use computers and the internet and how to find their way to a forum about their cell phone devices.
 
Verizon doesn't care about what's going on over here ... we're just a tiny little group of power users who like to complain. More trouble than we're worth.

VZW has something like 90,000,000 subscribers now, right? What percentage of that base is likely to show up over here, or care what we say? A tenth of one percent? Probably less than that.
 
VZW has something like 90,000,000 subscribers now, right? What percentage of that base is likely to show up over here, or care what we say? A tenth of one percent? Probably less than that.

I'd guess there are a couple of thousand users here. According to my calculations that couple of thousand users translates to roughly 26 bazillion readers who have not joined.

Error margin: + or - 2 miptillion.

I'll bet Verizon would love to influence a few geekillion at the very least.
 
I would consider following the recently leaked Desire to wherever it heads in the US. All the perks of the Nexus One with an optical trackpad and carrier support. Sold!
 
I would consider following the recently leaked Desire to wherever it heads in the US. All the perks of the Nexus One with an optical trackpad and carrier support. Sold!
Yes, that does look like a great phone.

If att has the phones you want, have good service in your area, and you dont travel, then go for it. They cost the same, so its really a matter of phone preference and service.
This is what it really boils down to: service. The phone won't matter if you can't get service. For example, I do have one friend that will be switching to Sprint because, though she only lives a mile from me (as the crow flies), she rarely gets a Verizon signal while I get a great signal. However, Sprint works great at her house so she'll be switching for that reason. The type of phone doesn't matter one bit to her.
 
This is what it really boils down to: service. The phone won't matter if you can't get service. For example, I do have one friend that will be switching to Sprint because, though she only lives a mile from me (as the crow flies), she rarely gets a Verizon signal while I get a great signal. However, Sprint works great at her house so she'll be switching for that reason. The type of phone doesn't matter one bit to her.

This is true, and this is why I'm in a love/hate relationship with Verizon. I've got a great signal wherever I travel and in my home area. However, they've done a pisspoor job of getting devices in a timely manner that make it worthwhile to either pony up the cash or sign away 2 years of my life. I haven't been able to get over this speed bump for almost 2 years now, and it's not looking very promising.

LTE can't come fast enough for Verizon. In another few years, an LTE-based phone that comes down from MWC like (the Desire) will hopefully be world ready (including the US) and I'll be able to pick it up and drop my Verizon LTE SIM card in without having to wait for them to bring the device to their line-up. Until then...:rolleyes:
 
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