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I'm having doubts about android, need guidance

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Android is processor intensive, iOS is storage intensive, that's directly in the different natures of how the two operating systems accomplish multitasking.

Android performs preemptive multitasking - the same as Windows, Mac OS X or Linux. (More to the point, exactly like the last two.)

iOS performs multitasking much like Windows 95 did.

Look at the size difference between an iOS app and the equivalent Android one.

Android = Embedded Linux + Dalvik Virtual Machine + Apps that run inside the Dalvik and use common software services provided by the embedded Linux operating system

Android apps are small, and they have to share software services with other apps, and those services are effectively constant - and that takes computing horsepower. Just like any modern desktop operating system.

An iOS app is large. It carries its required services with itself. Even if those software bits are wasteful of storage and duplicated by neighboring apps, which is basically the common case. When an iOS app is running, it's not sharing its services. It can run more efficiently on a less powerful processor because the operating system is not doing as much.

From a software engineering perspective, Android is far more advanced. And many respondents here have read this before. And seem to ignore it when defining quality.

The comparison voiced throughout this thread seems to include a lot of Android vs iPhone.

Then, experience from a model or two of Android devices are somehow defined as "Android" and compared to a possibly specific piece of hardware and an operating system called an iPhone.

No. Sorry.

An unmodified Samsung runs Android and Touchwiz. An unmodified HTC runs Android and Sense. It's not reasonable to use any one of those and then say, here's how Android phones behave, now let's compare to an iPhone, and then make claims against the Android operating system.

Android is a superior software platform by design.

The issue may not be so much a case of, why does it need such horsepower when iOS doesn't?

It's more a case of, everyone here knew 4 years ago that their desktop processors would be far more powerful today, and knows today that processors for their desktops will be more powerful still in two years, for example.

And because everyone knows that, I bet probably no one reading this runs Windows 95, or would again given the chance.

The more hardware catches up with Android, the more capable it becomes.

And the prices don't change from year to year for leaps in hardware quality that can deliver on that.

And if I'm hostile, it's because when my daughter got an iPhone lemon, the famous build quality and service being touted here were non-existent. The thing never worked right at all, the Apple Store did nothing except to say that pictures that all came out with the same ugly color tint, constantly dropped calls and a battery that dropped like a rock - all demonstrated in the Apple Store, was literally met with, "Too bad, next customer." And calls to Apple corporate did nothing.

So, while I sympathize that some have had the exact same experience in the Android world, I hope that I'll be pardoned for pointing out that the peaches and cream myth of infallible Apple product support is total hogwash.

Apple iDevices are made under contract in Asia like many products, including Android phones or components.

Neither are magical.

None are near perfect.

None of the makers are our friends.

Reliability is accepted by the market. But the model is not: deliver quality. The model is: deliver, and let the consumer fight us if we screwed up.

So, by all means, there is no perfect phone, just the most perfect for you being offered today. That's the only one to buy with your hard-earned cash.

And if you happen to want to invest in the one that is more advanced, but has higher hardware requirements, then perhaps Android is what you want.

And probably why it keeps getting offered by more makers on more handsets and has been growing without abatement.
 
lol how is that apples to apples when that phone has a 1.5ghz Quad core processor?
It's apples to apples because the N4 is THE current reference device for Android and the iPhone is THE reference device for iOS. :)

A statement was made that regardless of specs, Android phones eat RAM and lag. My post was an example of an experience one might have with a high end flagship Android device. And since there is only one current flagship iOS device, what iPhone but the 5 could I compare it to? :)

Also, my Android reference/flagship/Nexus device doesn't suspend apps/processes to ensure fluid movement and interactions. My apps run in the background and all the while my N4 chugs along without a stutter. :D

jmar :)
 
That's just it. I never liked how apps run constantly in the background in Android...that always caused me problems like lag, jerky scrolling and constant or at least often force closing or the ubiquitous App Not Responding notice. There is always a tiny delay in even a flagship device running Android especially when you scroll a web page. (Even on the Galaxy Tab) which indeed is noticeable and ruins the interaction for me. When you pay that much for a flagship and it acts like that you don't feel you're getting something better, but something inferior. In my view iOS has far better multitasking which achieves the same end result without compromising performance. (You still get notifications, alerts, and apps resume fast so I don't see the problem here)

In games, you won't notice the lag or jerky scrolling at least I don't because I'm too busy concentrating on the game. Games such as Real Racing and Brothers in Arms 2 run just as good in Android as in iOS, and are often free compared with iOS being mostly pay ware (albeit with ads ) but there are indeed times when android feels inferior, like a 486DX, and that is when you're scrolling a web page, waiting for one to load (I've used many browsers and while Dolphin Mini and Opera come close, they can't beat the almost-instant loading that Safari does) or playing music and switching between apps, to have it cut out, this is where Android falls apart...
 
That's just it. I never liked how apps run constantly in the background in Android...that always caused me problems like lag, jerky scrolling and constant or at least often force closing or the ubiquitous App Not Responding notice.

That sounds typical of crappy budget tablets and phones, like not much RAM, weak CPUs, crap Android builds.

Thing is, I probably know more about these things than anyone else on AF, simply because of where I am, the people I know, and my interests in the cheap 'n' nasty and crap tech products.... you know "The People's Guide to Android in the People's Republic". :D

There is always a tiny delay in even a flagship device running Android especially when you scroll a web page. (Even on the Galaxy Tab)

Where did you actually try a Galaxy Tab, a store display or something? Sort of thing that's all battered and god knows what's been happening to it.

which indeed is noticeable and ruins the interaction for me. When you pay that much for a flagship and it acts like that you don't feel you're getting something better, but something inferior. In my view iOS has far better multitasking which achieves the same end result without compromising performance.

Problem is, it doesn't though does it, You go out of the browser, go and do something else like the Facebook app, go back into the browser, which has to re-load the pages, taking time and using metered 3G data. Kind of like the way Windows 3.0 handled multitasking.


(You still get notifications, alerts, and apps resume fast so I don't see the problem here)

I suggest you might want to try a new sealed in the box Google Nexus Android reference phone or tablet. That will give you a true experience of Android, instead of some adulterated and polluted version that was thrown together in some back-street shed in Guangdong Province, e.g. the $50 Emerson 4.3 that you list in your devices. Or some bashed around display thing that you played with in a store.

In games, you won't notice the lag or jerky scrolling at least I don't because I'm too busy concentrating on the game. Games such as Real Racing and Brothers in Arms 2 run just as good in Android as in iOS, and are often free compared with iOS being mostly pay ware (albeit with ads )

Probably the reason for that is iOS paid apps and games are much more widely available world wide than their Android counterparts on Google Play. Which is free apps only in many countries, including where I am.

but there are indeed times when android feels inferior, like a 486DX, and that is when you're scrolling a web page, waiting for one to load (I've used many browsers and while Dolphin Mini and Opera come close, they can't beat the almost-instant loading that Safari does) or playing music and switching between apps, to have it cut out, this is where Android falls apart...

Again that sounds like your comparing ropey $60 things to those beautiful and expensive $600 Apple tablets and phones. A bit like comparing a Yugo to a Ferrari is it not? - to use a car analogy.
 
That's just it. I never liked how apps run constantly in the background in Android...that always caused me problems like lag, jerky scrolling and constant or at least often force closing or the ubiquitous App Not Responding notice. There is always a tiny delay in even a flagship device running Android especially when you scroll a web page. (Even on the Galaxy Tab) which indeed is noticeable and ruins the interaction for me. When you pay that much for a flagship and it acts like that you don't feel you're getting something better, but something inferior. In my view iOS has far better multitasking which achieves the same end result without compromising performance. (You still get notifications, alerts, and apps resume fast so I don't see the problem here)

Which Galaxy Tab - the earlier 1 GHz older ARM Cortex processor, or one of the new ones?

For the longest time, the iPad was far, far smoother experience than the previous generation Android tablets. They'd been doing it longer and did an excellent job.

Many feel that Android has caught up, depending (again) on model and so forth.

How old was your last flagship device? Which one was it?

For speed and fluidity, mine didn't really catch up fully until last year (and that's just on things I've used, I won't say that either way across the board).

With processor and ram improvements, and more coming this year, that's unlikely to be a factor - reviewer after reviewer for the One and SGS4 are noticing and insisting that we're over the hump for sure now, including on games.

Galaxy Tab (model x) < iPad (model y)

Fair enough.

What's the values for x and y? :)

All Android < iPad (model y)

You don't know that. ;)

~~~~~~~~~~~~

PS - iOS apps crash silently, Android lets you know when that happens. Some believe that apps don't crash on one or the other - truth is, it happens on both platforms.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

PPS and BTW -

In my view iOS has far better multitasking which achieves the same end result without compromising performance. (You still get notifications, alerts, and apps resume fast so I don't see the problem here)
Many iOS features that Android had all along didn't come until iOS 5, and weren't fabulous until they updated their processing hardware as well.

Fair's fair on pointing that out - in the software engineering business, we have a term for that - TANSTAAFL.

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. ;)
 
I am an iPhone user, currently owning an iPhone 5. I have had a 4 (not the 4S) a 3GS, a 3 and an original iPhone, I also own an iPad 2 too, so I consider that I am pretty familiar with the Apple iOS ecosystem.

I also have a Samsung Galaxy S2 and for a while I had a Galaxy S3. I have just bought myself the new HTC One.

Like many people, I had some worries about swapping from an iPhone to an Android device as I like the fact that the iPhone works 'straight out of the box' as was mentioned above. The iPhone doesn't have the bells and whistles that Android does, but what it does do, it does flawlessly for the most part. All that packaged in a lovely skin too.

However, the new crop of Android devices are miles better than the old guard. My new HTC One is just about the most amazing phone I have ever owned; far and away better than my iPhone 5 on looks (no mean feat), speed, screen and battery life. Please check out my review post for my thoughts on this HTC and bear in mind that I am a dyed-in-the-wool iOS user too when you read it.

http://androidforums.com/htc-one/700339-htc-one-reviews-actual-users-2.html#post5686626

If you want to buy an iPhone 5, let me know, i'll see you mine, such is the level of my happiness over the quality of my new HTC. (Note: I won't sell you mine as this is forbidden on the forums, but you get the general idea).

Would I ever go back to an iPhone? Sure I would but frankly Apple will have to pull something really rather amazing out of the bag first!

My thoughts are this, and these are purely rhetorical questions based on my experience with the HTC and iPhone.


  • Apple has better build quality - Not any more. The HTC stands head and shoulders above the iPhone in my opinion, both in looks and in quality of build.
  • The iPhone 5 has better battery life - Not for me, please see my posts in the various battery threads on here for my experiences. The HTC has been off the charger for over 48 hours now with 4 hours of screen on time. Way better than my iPhone 5 could manage.
  • Apple iOS is more stable - Sense 5 has not missed a beat since I bought the phone a week ago and i've been throwing some pretty heavy stuff at it as you do in the honeymoon period with a new device. JB seems to be a huge step up from my first Gingerbread device and the experiences I had with ICS.
I understand why you would want to switch because sometimes you feel the grass is greener on the other side. I thought that with the Galaxy S3 I bought and immediately regretted it and went back to an iPhone. I wanted more from my iPhone so I jailbroke it to allow me the customisation that is natively found in stock Android. I don't regret the decision to get the HTC One for one second and I hope that whatever decision you make, you won't come to regret it like I did with my S3.



Good luck.
 
Early, what ever a Galaxy Tab 2 is, it had ICS and I'm impressed by it, it seems the most responsive and speedy with the stock launcher. I haven't bought it yet but out of all the displays it was fastest and had darn accurate touch response. It was on sale at Best Buy for $299, and they had them online so I could test the Internet with them...

Mike, that Emerson is the most reliable of my cheapies for the price, it survived concrete, another fall on a tile floor (back popped off but i got it back together) and although the screen is shattered it still works and isn't that bad. I use display models so I don't spend $300 and feel jipped if it Doesn't perform to my expectations...try before you buy and all that.

Anyone know if Android can be made to crash silently? Three annoyances are force close alerts, app not responding alerts, (more common) and the annoying and often-false 'low disc space-phone storage space is low' alert (which kills sync and notifications and even kills mail apps from getting email. If I can get the level of control I want, such as controlling what apps run and don't run, and disable alerts I'd be happy with Android, but no one wanted to help me before... Instead of saying 'let Android manage apps' again I state I don't feel comfortable surrendering all control over which apps run to the operating system. Besides all that background junk runs and never suspends causing hot hips and ate-up batteries
 
I don't know of a way to make things crash silently in Android.

Besides all that background junk runs and never suspends causing hot hips and ate-up batteries

Not according to Scootmien's post, and he has battery charts the One forum to prove it - as do I in the Evo 4G LTE root forum.

Your mileage may vary.

If you're using Android and I'm using Android, and I don't have battery issues or hot hips - then the difference may not be Android. ijs ;)
 
Not according to Scootmien's post, and he has battery charts the One forum to prove it - as do I in the Evo 4G LTE root forum.

Your mileage may vary.

If you're using Android and I'm using Android, and I don't have battery issues or hot hips - then the difference may not be Android. ijs ;)
I think it really does depend on the device. On my LG Ally, DInc 1 and 2 and DroidX, I HAD to root to get things the way I liked it. But those were the pre-ICS days. Heck, even ICS had to grow up into Jelly Bean before we really could start to see how fluid and powerful Android could be.

When we finally got Jelly Bean on the GNex was when I really felt Android had truly matured into a something amazing. Now running the very latest Jelly Bean build (4.2.2) on my N4 and N7 (custom ROM by choice) just feels great. But again, experiences are device dependent with Android. The choice is there to get out of it what you want. And that's a beautiful thing. YMMV.

jmar
 
Well, what I want isn't possible. Android is fine if you stare at the home screen and play around with themes and widgets, but what I want is to close apps when i am done with them, and only have them running if I use them often. There is zero reason for Amazon App Store to be running if I haven't used it in a month! I have been more happy replacing Google Play store (which not only runs all the time, but also eats up 15mb of space when running) with 1Mobile Market which has the one click download and install like the App Store on Apple, which can be closed and won't auto start but there is no way to get 100% control over every app I'd use. Not having that control gives me the impression that I'm surrendering control over a device I own to google, but on iOS I can be aassured that when I click that minus sign in recent apps it will shut the app down and it won't magically reappear in recent apps later on. Task killers in Android don't work because the apps restart on their own and the killer eats battery trying to repeatedly kill them. While autostart killer can prevent some apps from running on their own, it doesn't support them all. I'm just happier being in control over that. Also, unless Android can do more than tell me an app crashed, the alerts are nothing short of annoying. They remind me all too well of the car crash sound that used to happen when an iMac crashed. It annoys the user without offering any help. I left behind 'sorry, this program has stopped' when I left Windows for Linux. At least in Linux I have control over which apps run and it crashes silently. Only once has iOS crashed. I've never had to force-reboot, and only Google+ crashed and even told me when I reopened it, but it was optimized for Android so I don't expect it to be perfectly stable.

I won't lie, I'm OCD. I notice when a device I paid for lags, and even the tiniest amount is noticed and annoys me. I still recall how amazing it felt to use my iPad after a month of using my kindle fire. It was like the difference between night and day, especially with scrolling, if I had control over apps it wouldn't lag as much, if at all. I'd hate to pay over $300 for a device and have it lag out of box and eat up battery after three hours....when I get the chance I will give the Galaxy Tab 2 a try but if I still have issues its going back to the store..
 
Frankly, I'd rather have android tell me an app has crashed than take apples approach and not alert the user at all
 
Well if you want to be told the obvious fine. But I know when an app crashes...plus it's not the only Android shortcoming, I often get the Clippy style 'hey, it looks like Facebook is slow, would you like to close it or wait?' Notice (well that is how I interpret it). So an app is slow. Fine. Just don't annoy me with endless wait/force close alerts. Apps being slow is no reason to ask me if I'd want to voluntarily crash them.

Unless the choices in Android and control involve nothing but UI aesthetics, I would have figured android could do what I want it to do. If I want control over apps, and silent crashes I figure I should be able to do just that. Or is customizing in Android not what I thought it would be? I never could get access to the last 15mb of space on my phone, no matter what it refused to install anymore apps there without telling me insufficient storage. I never tried the built-in installer though in 1Mobile, may check to see if it gets around that. I'm not a Dev by any means but one day I will succeed in making Android run how I like it to, by no means do I give up toying with it...
 
This may have already been said before but I'll go ahead and say it anyway.

RAM management in Android is very much different than that of a PC. Surely, eating up all the RAM a device has would cause issues, except that: Since Froyo, Android has implemented a Just-in-Time or JiT compiler which manages RAM based on real time needs. So when a newly opened app needs RAM, the apps and processes which are running and waiting to be opened for quick multitasking will shut down smartly to free up resources for that freshly opened app.

As Android has matured, JiT has greatly improved, especially as Android devices are built with more and more RAM. This year's and some of last year's flagship devices ship(ped) with 2 GB of RAM. Coupled with Jelly Bean and amazing cutting edge processors, devices are fast, efficient and a joy to use.

I really am not kidding that my two Nexus devices are as good as I say it is. I never need to run a task killer and haven't since the early Froyo days. Task killers work against the natural flow of memory management in Android. And as stated, are unnecessary because Android is built to manage memory automagically. :)

Lastly, one of the great things about seeing an app crash in the forefront vs out of sight is that you can either fix the app by changing how you use it (like an overclocking app; don't overclock so high), email the developer about your experience, or get rid of the app all together. There are poorly coded apps for both Android and iOS. Android gives you, however, the ability to see when an app is not performing. And by in large, there is always an alternative app for one which is written poorly.

jmar

P.S. iOS doesn't truly multitask. I have seen it in action on some of my family members iPhones. For example, if the load is too high, a download will suspend to ensure a fluid experience. To some folks, this is a feature. For me and others, it is a flaw, especially considering that I can download multiple files and forget about it while watching Netflix. Choosing a device comes down to preference. Android is my choice. And I fully support yours. :):beer:
 
Well if you want to be told the obvious fine. But I know when an app crashes...plus it's not the only Android shortcoming,

As opposed to when an app crashes on iOS, it just vanishes, and one is left feeling bewildered and wondering what happened? Which is what I often felt when Safari frequently just vanished when I had an iPhone. Although I believe it's more stable these days.

I often get the Clippy style 'hey, it looks like Facebook is slow, would you like to close it or wait?' Notice (well that is how I interpret it). So an app is slow. Fine. Just don't annoy me with endless wait/force close alerts. Apps being slow is no reason to ask me if I'd want to voluntarily crash them.

That's typical of a ropey build of Android running on cheap, slow and poor quality hardware. NOT all Android devices are like that. Kind of like saying all cars are rubbish and are always breaking down, just because one has been driving Yugos and Trabants. ;)

FYI if you haven't already read it...
http://androidforums.com/android-lounge/631594-off-brand-phones-tablets-worth-low-cost.html

You really want to get your hands on one of the latest Google Nexus Android reference devices, and then make your judgements about it. If you order one on-line from a reputable retailer, and you don't like what you find, you can always return it for a refund, there's no risk to you. Google Nexus is what I often recommend that people get over the troublesome off-brand budget things in General Tablet Talk and Other Androids. :D
 
Maybe I've missed it, but can you list the actual brand and model of devices you've actually used and are basing your experiences of android off of?


I don't even remember the last time I've had an app crash on me
 
I don't really care if it is designed to manage apps automatically, I'm just not comfortable with surrendering that control over to an operating system. I like being in control and until Android gives me that control, it will remain sidelined and mostly hang out in my closet. Besides I have found its not so smart as so many crashes and lag happens, which means it isn't shutting the apps down for enough juice, plus some run all the time (I'm talking to you, Play Store) and consume RAM and battery whether I want them to or not. I can disable them in ICS and above, but then the icon vanishes and I have to go into settings, apps, manage and re-enable them, too many steps just to close and reopen an app later on. There must be a way to get what I want with it, I just need to hack a bit...I've found no such help online...

I do find it odd how iOS runs so perfectly on hardware you call 'low end' and which Android seems to gag on. There is a big problem when you need gaming spec hardware to run an embedded operating system. You may call lag and such features, and can live with it constantly saying 'sorry, Facebook has stopped' (no, Android's over zealous crash protection killed it because I've disabled that problem in JB) but I cannot
 
From looking at the devices in your profile Nick, I would say that I can see why you've had some issues. When I had my Lg Ally and Dinc 1 and 2 and even Droid X2, I experienced some of the things you reference. But times have changed in Android. The software has gotten better and the hardware options are higher end. This has led to an Android experience which is just a joy to use and rely upon daily.

Take a Nexus 7 or Nexus 10 for a spin. Take an N4 or even Galaxy Nexus for a spin. The experience will impress you.

:)
 
Can you list what devices you've actually used? It'll help us understand where you're coming from

From what he's been describing, it sounds very much to me like bad experiences of cheapo off-brand budget $50-$100 devices, the kind of things that one finds at Walmart or on Ebay and Alibaba, that usually ship from Hong Kong or Shenzhen. Thing is not all cheapo Android devices are garbage, there are some good ones. I'm in China, so I can pick-over and choose the good ones from the lemons. And don't experience the kind of things, like lag, crashes and general unreliability that he describes.

I presume Nick is quite affluent, and has the money to be spending on $600-$700 iPhones and iPads, and doesn't mind been locked into Apple's way of doing things, like iTunes. Spend $600+ on an iPhone or iPad, you know pretty well what you're going to get and how it's going to work. Buy a Google Nexus tablet, again you know what you're going to get. Spend just $50-$100 on an Android tablet from some name you've never heard of, that can be a real lottery, whether what you get is any good or is garbage. More often or not it's towards the latter. Thing is, I know and often talk to the people who actually make these things, via the various Shenzhen University(Shenda) QQ groups.

BTW I'll be in Shenzhen next month, which is probably the best place on earth to choose a good budget Android device. I'll post what I find if anyone is interested.
 
Again I state that iOS works well despite limited hardware. My 256mb of ram in the iPod can still run well, but 512 MB in Android falls apart. Again I state that I have ZERO control over what runs I Android and that is a deal breaker. Again I state that a mobile operating system shouldn't need gaming spec hardware. A laptop with a paltry dual-core can run Linux but android cannot scroll as good as iOS even with top of the line hardware. Its better but not there yet. I also cannot state enough how apps like Facebook, Gmail, look watered down on Android but are just beautiful and fluid in iOS. Clearly Android has a problem if you find crash alerts and jerky scrolling a 'feature' or worse, think that the customization is worth the price of having an OS which feels hacked together. Problem is what *I* want isn't possible in Android, which is a simple request. Smooth scrolling, fluid animations, more apps, and the ability to close and open them at my own will. Everyone is boasting about widgets but I never could get used to them, they consume RAM and they have been around since Windows Vista, and I never cared for them then. The only time I use the home screen is during the short time I look for and launch an app. I don't stare at the screen, so what It looks like is irrelevant in my situation

Mike, not sure what prices are where you're at but my 16GB iPad only set me back $399 on sale. I can almost guarantee you a $399 Android tablet will lag and crash. Ill even buy one to prove it. That tiny delay when tapping is just unacceptable.

Then there is the issue with upgrades. iOS 6.1.3 is supported as far back as the iPhone 3GS and second generation iPod touch. How many three year-old Android phones and such can be upgraded without rooting and playing with potentially unstable custom ROMs? 65% of Android users are on Gingerbread.

Despite the impressive views I have of the Galaxy Tab 2 tablet, I am likely to find that unlike my ipad it won't replace my laptop, the battery will likely die sooner, and the 16:9 aspect ratio makes it look smaller and the keyboard appears 'squashed' in landscape mode. Other than that it is fast, fluid, so two things are checked off. But I still see Android catching up, while iOS had it right from the start. And did I read history correctly when I saw some reference to Android originally meant to compete against RIM's BlackBerry?
 
Mike, not sure what prices are where you're at but my 16GB iPad only set me back $399 on sale. I can almost guarantee you a $399 Android tablet will lag and crash. Ill even buy one to prove it. That tiny delay when tapping is just unacceptable.

The $200 nexus 7 screams. No lag at all.

You keep ignoring my questions, I'm not sure if you're just trying g to convince yourself here or just want to rant.

Either way, this is going in circles. You are making the same points over and over
 
The devices are in the list under my name. The best performer so far is the kindle fire on jelly bean. I still lack control over running apps, the battery dies after four hours of use, and takes *forever* to recharge. While ANR alerts and crashes are less common they still show. It always seems to take twice as long to do anything in android vs iOS, sad since an iPod touch 4G can beat the hardware of the kindle fire despite it being lower spec, much lower spec
 
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