in the state of virginia its legal for parents to give their kids alcohol.

[batgeek]

i know people in their 40s and 50s that shouldn't be allowed to drink. i know people in their 40s and 50s that aren't as mature as some of the 16-mid 20yo that i know.

 

[Knewz]

I have to ask, do you know what being a pedophile means? I don't mean to offend, but I just don't think giving kids alcohol is in the same league as pedophilia.

I will admit, i may have stretched that a bit.... but i also did say borderline. yes i'm aware to its definition. But you can easily make a connection between giving children alcohol and pedophilia. You can make a connection between alcohol(usually an over consumption) and sex period. Pedophilia does have to with sex, therefore can be connected to alcohol. If you get an adult drunk enough, you can take advantage of them. No different than a child.

 

[lordofthereef]

Sure, if you are doing it with the intent of taking advantage of them. But that intent sort of has to be there. Calling a person a pedo because he gives a kid a beer is calling that same person a rapist when he gives it to a woman. It's not that act of giving the person the alcohol that makes you the sex offender. JMO

 

[Roze]

Well historically the the drawing of the line coincided with the 'age of majority' which used to be 21 in the US. The age of majority is now 18 so it seems drawing the line at 21 is quite arbitrary at this point. If you want to talk about maturity from what I recall reading not long ago the brain doesn't fully mature until sometime around the late twenties...

I remember an article (can never find these damn articles again) that shows that the brain doesn't reach developmental maturity until you are 25 years old (car rental got this spot on in the US).

I found a forum that cited the paper, lol.

Look at a lot of your college students between 18 to 25. How many shows maturity and how many doesnt. You seem to be thinking when a person reaches a certain age something goes click in their brain and boom they are mature. It dont work that way and I have seen more people reach 21 act the same as they did at 18. 21 isnt a magic number and I think if the courts and gov acknowledge you being an adult at 18. Then you should be able to drink at 18.

Different areas of the brain develop in differing rates into early adulthood. Certainly the pruning and shaping of Corina's brain during her early months as a learning machine were critical. But according to recent imaging studies of children...a second growth spurt in gray matter occurs just before puberty.

Assuming she was a typical girl, Corina's cortex was thickest at the age of 11 (boys peak a year and a half later). This wave of growth was following by anotyher thinning of gray matter that lasted throughout her teen years, and indeed has only recently been completed. This first areas of her brain to finish the process were those involved in basic functions, such as sensory processing and mnovement, in the extreme front of the brain. Next came regions governing spatial orientation and language in the parietal lobes on the sides of the brain.

The last area of the brain to reach maturity is the prefontal cortex where the so called executive brain resides - where we make social judgements, weigh alternatives, plan for the future and hold our behaviour in check.

"The executive brain doesnt hit adult levels until the age of 25" -Jay Giedd, National insitute of Mental Health". "At puberty you have adult passions, sex drive, energy and emotion but the reining in doesnt happen until much later"

It is no wonder perhaps that teenagers seem to lack good judgement of the ability to restrain impulses.

"We can vote at 18 and drive a car. But you can't rent a car until you are 25. In terms of brain anatomy, the only people who have it right are the car rental people!".

source
Well seems like I've reached my brain maturity level *looks* yeah...I still act immature.

Actually, there are plenty of college students that learn maturity through their "trial by fire" (aka mom and dad gave you the boot and you get to learn how to live on your own). And no, I don't think something magical happens in your head at ANY age. The difference is the potential life experiences that a human being can have under his/her belt at those given ages. The average 18 year old hasn't lived a day away from home. They are less likely to be responsible than a 21 year old, statistically speaking.

Yet that 18 year old, can move out of the house...enlist in the army, get married, have kids or buy a house of their own. Those things would show them to require A LOT of responsibility (especially the kids part).

Alcohol to little kids = big no no

I didn't drink until I was 20 even though I could legally drink at 19 and had a fake ID at 18

 

[lordofthereef]

Yet that 18 year old, can move out of the house...enlist in the army, get married, have kids or buy a house of their own. Those things would show them to require A LOT of responsibility (especially the kids part).

Alcohol to little kids = big no no

I didn't drink until I was 20 even though I could legally drink at 19 and had a fake ID at 18

I agree with you. That said, we have to provide a definition of adulthood for legal reasons. Perhaps we just don't want to give kids all of their adult freedoms at once? Or maybe the age of legal adulthood should be 21 (although there are many reasons it would be damn near impossible getting something like this to pass).

We are talking about dieing for your country here, why can women still not be drafted in desperate times of war? I'd rather see equality in the draft than a lowered drinking age.

Some say giving your kid liquor is bad. I say teaching your kid to shoot a gun is bad, yet that is legal almost everywhere. IMO a kid with a gun is more dangerous than a kid with a single beer in his hand that dad let him have at home. I have no data to substantiate my hypothesis, but I would also venture a guess that the kid that dad let's drink on occasion ends up being more responsible with his liquor later in life than the kid that got his first beer at 21.

 

[lordofthereef]

A decent article on drinking age and why it is what it is.

From it:

With evidence that a lower [than 21] drinking age resulted in more traffic injuries and fatalities among youth, citizen advocacy groups pressured states to restore the MLDA to 21. Because of such advocacy campaigns, 16 states increased their MLDAs between September 1976 and January 1983. Resistance from other states, and concern that minors would travel across state lines to purchase and consume alcohol, prompted the federal government in 1984 to enact the Uniform Drinking Age Act, which mandated reduced federal transportation funds to those states that did not raise the MLDA to 21.

 

[jamor]

I do believe that the US has a really high age for the drinking limit. Seriously 21? You can legally vote, smoke, marry, have kids at 18 but you can't drink?

Umm.. actually it makes perfect sense. That argument is getting pretty stale.

It is funny because you hear this argument (which doesn't make any sense at all) over and over because it is just what people hear and regurgitate without even know they are doing it.

Studies of the teenage brain show that adolescents and young adults are more vulnerable to the effects of alcohol on learning, memory and judgment. And those who begin drinking in their early teens are at greater risk to become alcoholics.

The drinking age has been lowered before and it doesn't work.

21-year-old drinking age saves many lives.

 

[Roze]

Umm.. actually it makes perfect sense. That argument is getting pretty stale.

It is funny because you hear this argument (which doesn't make any sense at all) over and over because it is just what people hear and regurgitate without even know they are doing it.

Studies of the teenage brain show that adolescents and young adults are more vulnerable to the effects of alcohol on learning, memory and judgment. And those who begin drinking in their early teens are at greater risk to become alcoholics.

The drinking age has been lowered before and it doesn't work.

21-year-old drinking age saves many lives.

Then why 21? If studies have shown that brain development/growth to the 'maturity' level is not until your mid 20s. Shouldn't THIS be the ideal age if alcohol has a negative effect on the youth's brain?

I just find it VERY ironic that I am given all these choices as an adult at 18 yet if I want a drink, it's illegal. As an adult, I should be able to make the decision if I want to drink or not with my other choices. My action, my consequences. If the State feels that I am unable to make such a decision, than they should also question my ability to use such judgement for the other rights (voting, legally carrying a gun, smoking).

To save lives, drinking should be ILLEGAL but we know what happens with such prohibition

 

[Bob Maxey]

Then why 21? If studies have shown that brain development/growth to the 'maturity' level is not until your mid 20s. Shouldn't THIS be the ideal age if alcohol has a negative effect on the youth's brain?

I just find it VERY ironic that I am given all these choices as an adult at 18 yet if I want a drink, it's illegal. As an adult, I should be able to make the decision if I want to drink or not with my other choices. My action, my consequences. If the State feels that I am unable to make such a decision, than they should also question my ability to use such judgement for the other rights (voting, legally carrying a gun, smoking).

To save lives, drinking should be ILLEGAL but we know what happens with such prohibition

Time was, a 14 year old could buy a rifle and shells. Not sure what the age limit is these days in every state, but in Montana it is 14. Guns are serious and kids that have been trained typically have very few problems.

Voting takes knowledge that most kids lack. They are easily influenced and simply not mature enough to make a well reasoned decision. Besides, the age is set by the United States Constitution. This tells you our founders thought it important enough to make it a part of our founding documents.

Smoking is more dangerous than drinking. Sure, kids can have a drink and quite likely, there will be few consequences. But kids are kids and they lack judgment, so the drinking age is higher.

Alcohol, if you believe the studies, (and as you mentioned in your post) causes problems with development in the early stages, so kids cannot drink at an early age.

Interesting that a kid can get a pilot's license at an early age and they can begin classes at any age. Depending on the craft, they can solo at 14 years of age.

Finally, it is not like drinking at an early age is a good thing. Let kids be kids and learn to tell then no.

 

[zuben el genub]

Some ethnic groups do give kids a little wine with a special meal or special occasion. We let our daughter have a small sample of wine. She still prefers non-alcoholic Cold Duck.

Along with liquor for teething, you could buy paragoric. (opium derivative)

 

[Bob Maxey]

Some ethnic groups do give kids a little wine with a special meal or special occasion. We let our daughter have a small sample of wine. She still prefers non-alcoholic Cold Duck.

Along with liquor for teething, you could buy paragoric. (opium derivative)

Gosh, I do remember Paregoric. Camphorated Tincture of Opium. Imagine giving that now illegal compound to a kid these days. Or anyone else. As I recall, it was an OTC remedy way back when.

When I moved not too long ago, there was a bottle of the stuff in my grandmother's closet. I thought it might be good to freeze and use in ice tea on a hot summer day. Then again . . .

 

[lordofthereef]

Alcohol, if you believe the studies, (and as you mentioned in your post) causes problems with development in the early stages, so kids cannot drink at an early age.

So does caffeine, and at the prevalence that kids are drinking it, it's probably currently a far greater problem than alcohol. I think we should put an age limit on that (seriously), though I am not sure we ever would/could.

Time was, a 14 year old could buy a rifle and shells. Not sure what the age limit is these days in every state, but in Montana it is 14. Guns are serious and kids that have been trained typically have very few problems.

That's fair, but is there evidence that kids, when allowed by their parents to drink earlier on have more than few problems? I don't know the answer to this, but it seems guns are justified in that statement because kids are taught responsibility and generally don't have issues. What if I taught my kid to drink responsibly when he was 14?

 

[Bob Maxey]

So does caffeine, and at the prevalence that kids are drinking it, it's probably currently a far greater problem than alcohol. I think we should put an age limit on that (seriously), though I am not sure we ever would/could.

That's fair, but is there evidence that kids, when allowed by their parents to drink earlier on have more than few problems? I don't know the answer to this, but it seems guns are justified in that statement because kids are taught responsibility and generally don't have issues. What if I taught my kid to drink responsibly when he was 14?

I have not thought much about caffeine and its potential danger. Perhaps we should forbid kids from caffeine if there is a potential for damage.

And no . . . do not give your 14 YO alcohol. Bad idea for any number of reasons.

 

[lordofthereef]

And no . . . do not give your 14 YO alcohol. Bad idea for any number of reasons.

Either my point was missed, or it was avoided. I was touching on the potential social ramifications of a kid being taught to use a firearm. You said they are taught responsibility, so it is rarely an issue. I posed a question: is there evidence that teaching a kid to drink responsibly in your own home is any more of an issue than teaching a kid to shoot?

Caffeine is a problem, but so are a mess of other things. Kids are being taught to eat like garbage, and that follows them into adulthood with obesity, heart disease, and diabetes. If I had to guess, the parents feeding their kids beer are the same parents teaching their kids terrible eating habits as well. Not justifying, just theorizing. The bottom line is that being permitted to drink alcohol really isn't an adolescent's biggest enemy here in America.

 

[SaltySally]

Hey, I know this is two years old, but I found it and had to reply. In Virginia it is legal to give your kids alcohol in your home, or other children in your home if they are accompanied by their parent. BUT... if there is a problem, there are other laws that kick in, such as those against child abuse and neglect. I'm a lawyer in Virginia and I see plenty of cases where parents are hit with protective orders and even criminal charges for allowing their kids to drink in the home. It makes sense to allow parents to decide its okay for their kids to have a little watered-down wine at Thanksgiving dinner, and some cultures have their rituals with alcohol, but getting the kids drunk will not go over easy if it's found out. And there are judges who believe it is abusive to allow a child to drink alcohol regardless of the legality of it by statute. If it happens in the home it should stay in the home. If the police have reason to be at your house and they find your kid intoxicated, or if he sneaks out and gets in trouble elsewhere, all bets are off.

 

[Gmash]

Hey, I know this is two years old, but I found it and had to reply. In Virginia it is legal to give your kids alcohol in your home, or other children in your home if they are accompanied by their parent. BUT... if there is a problem, there are other laws that kick in, such as those against child abuse and neglect. I'm a lawyer in Virginia and I see plenty of cases where parents are hit with protective orders and even criminal charges for allowing their kids to drink in the home. It makes sense to allow parents to decide its okay for their kids to have a little watered-down wine at Thanksgiving dinner, and some cultures have their rituals with alcohol, but getting the kids drunk will not go over easy if it's found out. And there are judges who believe it is abusive to allow a child to drink alcohol regardless of the legality of it by statute. If it happens in the home it should stay in the home. If the police have reason to be at your house and they find your kid intoxicated, or if he sneaks out and gets in trouble elsewhere, all bets are off.

Interesting. Welcome to the forums!

 

[Strings]

I'm going to pop in here with a couple thoughts

First off: do NOT throw words lie "pedophilia" and "abuse" around lightly. As someone who helps abused kids regularly, what you're doing is devaluing the terms.

As for giving kids alcohol: I had a bottle of blackberry brandy in my rooms from the time I was 12 or so. I would occasionally have a glass while reading or painting miniatures (yes, I was a gamer), never even told any of my friends it was there