Insane left-wing extremists to ban goldfish, circumcision

[vailpass]

Is anyone arguing that there is a compelling health or welfare reason to ban circumcisions?
If so, let's hear it.
If not, you raise your children the way you see fit and don't try to interfere with other parents excercising the same right.
There is a reason "ideas" like this spring from quasi-socialist locales such as ManFrancisco.

 

[nlsme]

The public would never let your religious practices stand. The law would not allow it, and you would be hard pressed to find a legitimate religion that would condone the practice.

Your example is in no way the same as the Jewish Faith and circumcision.

The framers thought free expression of religion was vital so they gave us The First Amendment. They did not think religion would be perverted; your example, for example would be universally decried by the Founding Fathers.

I find it funny, that you say they have a right to practice their religion, regardless of what others think, yet I dont?
Here is a little less perverted example, one that is real. One that does NOT harm ANYBODY. One you should be familiar with. Polygomy...

 

[Dark Jedi]

I find it funny, that you say they have a right to practice their religion, regardless of what others think, yet I dont?
Here is a little less perverted example, one that is real. One that does NOT harm ANYBODY. One you should be familiar with. Polygomy...

Already brought that point up.

 

[Bob Maxey]

I find it funny, that you say they have a right to practice their religion, regardless of what others think, yet I dont?
Here is a little less perverted example, one that is real. One that does NOT harm ANYBODY. One you should be familiar with. Polygomy...

I still say that and your specific example is obscene and would be universally decried as being not a religion, but an excuse to do unthinkable things to your daughter.

As for Polygamy, that is a tough one because it was a part of the LDS Church/Mormonism. That is the problem with debates like this, you can't allow one act in the name of religion and not allow another, and eventually, people start citing examples of terrible acts and What-Ifs that go far beyond the original issue, which is if circumcision should be banned.

Except when it comes to your example, and that is wrong and absolutely abhorrent.

 

[vailpass]

I find it funny, that you say they have a right to practice their religion, regardless of what others think, yet I dont?
Here is a little less perverted example, one that is real. One that does NOT harm ANYBODY. One you should be familiar with. Polygomy...

Are you trying to say you are against gay marriage?

 

[nlsme]

Is anyone arguing that there is a compelling health or welfare reason to ban circumcisions?
If so, let's hear it.
If not, you raise your children the way you see fit and don't try to interfere with other parents excercising the same right.
There is a reason "ideas" like this spring from quasi-socialist locales such as ManFrancisco.

Meatitis and meatal stenosis are more serious complications that have been reported to occur in 8% to 21% of circumcised infants.

And although a very small percentage, there have been more than a few deaths.

There is no health benefit.

Besides, like I said earlier, a vast majority of circumcisions are performed on non jewish/muslim infants.

Do we allow the religions that practice female genetalia mutilation, to do it? Do we allow polygomy(wich has 0 health risks whatsoever)?

 

[nlsme]

Are you trying to say you are against gay marriage?

Where would you get that? Are they imposing on anyone else a risk of permanent disfugerement, negative health effects, death on someone against their will?

 

[vailpass]

Meatitis and meatal stenosis are more serious complications that have been reported to occur in 8% to 21% of circumcised infants.

And although a very small percentage, there have been more than a few deaths.

There is no health benefit.

Besides, like I said earlier, a vast majority of circumcisions are performed on non jewish/muslim infants.

Do we allow the religions that practice female genetalia mutilation, to do it? Do we allow polygomy(wich has 0 health risks whatsoever)?

Yes or no, is it your position that there is a health and welfare argument sufficient to ban the practice of circumcision?

Please exclude your irrelevant side notes on polygamy and genitalia mutilation.

 

[vailpass]

Where would you get that? Are they imposing on anyone else a risk of permanent disfugerement, negative health effects, death on someone against their will?

The argument is that marriage isn't just for a man and woman, marriage should be for any adults that love each other such as two women. And if you can't limit the gender of those who are married, you must then not be able to limit the number of those who love each other enough to be married. So polygamy must also be married.

And if multiple people can get married, why not a man and his dog?
Or is that ridiculous? Is it possible that at some point a line must be drawn?

 

[vailpass]

Meatitis and meatal stenosis are more serious complications that have been reported to occur in 8% to 21% of circumcised infants.

And although a very small percentage, there have been more than a few deaths.

There is no health benefit.

Besides, like I said earlier, a vast majority of circumcisions are performed on non jewish/muslim infants.

Do we allow the religions that practice female genetalia mutilation, to do it? Do we allow polygomy(wich has 0 health risks whatsoever)?

Circumcision not only protects against HIV in heterosexual men, but it also helps prevent two other sexually transmitted infections, a large new study found.
Circumcised males reduced their risk of infection with HPV, or human papillomavirus, by 35 percent and herpes by 28 percent. However, researchers found circumcision had no effect on the transmission of syphilis.

Landmark studies from three African countries including Uganda previously found circumcision lowered men’s chance of catching the AIDS virus by up to 60 percent. The new study stems from the Uganda research and looked at protection against three other STDs. The findings are reported in Thursday’s New England Journal of Medicine

“Evidence now strongly suggests that circumcision offers an important prevention opportunity and should be widely available,” Drs. Matthew Golden and Judith Wasserheit of the University of Washington wrote in an accompanying editorial.

Male circumcision may reduce some STD risks - Health - Sexual health - msnbc.com

 

[nlsme]

Yes or no, is it your position that there is a health and welfare argument sufficient to ban the practice of circumcision?

Please exclude your irrelevant side notes on polygamy and genitalia mutilation.

I would say it should be banned. Like I said, a VAST majority of circumcisions are performed on non Jewish infants. If the Jewish population feels it violates their rights to practice their religion, let them argue for the exemption. Just like the polygomists must do. And why must I ommit my "side comments", they are completely relevant to the topic at hand. Especially considering we are discussing genetalia mutilation, and the governments role in regulating religous practices...

 

[nlsme]

The argument is that marriage isn't just for a man and woman, marriage should be for any adults that love each other such as two women. And if you can't limit the gender of those who are married, you must then not be able to limit the number of those who love each other enough to be married. So polygamy must also be married.

And if multiple people can get married, why not a man and his dog?
Or is that ridiculous? Is it possible that at some point a line must be drawn?

This is going to get off topic fast, if you want to compare beastiality to gay marriage and polygomy...

 

[DoAndroidDream?]

Most people that are circumcised in the USA are not Jewish. The procedure is just performed as a matter of fact.

 

[vailpass]

This is going to get off topic fast, if you want to compare beastiality to gay marriage and polygomy...

Think. What was being discussed?

Going from gay marriage to bestiality is the same logic pattern as going from circumcision to pulling off fingernails or raping little girls.

Neither are valid arguments.

 

[vailpass]

I would say it should be banned. Like I said, a VAST majority of circumcisions are performed on non Jewish infants. If the Jewish population feels it violates their rights to practice their religion, let them argue for the exemption. Just like the polygomists must do. And why must I ommit my "side comments", they are completely relevant to the topic at hand. Especially considering we are discussing genetalia mutilation, and the governments role in regulating religous practices...

1. Mind your own business, you have no right to tell a parent how he/she can raise their children so long as a health or safety imperative is not present.

2. Why would you want to subject a child to increased risk of STDs inclusing AIDS?

Circumcision not only protects against HIV in heterosexual men, but it also helps prevent two other sexually transmitted infections, a large new study found.
Circumcised males reduced their risk of infection with HPV, or human papillomavirus, by 35 percent and herpes by 28 percent. However, researchers found circumcision had no effect on the transmission of syphilis.

Landmark studies from three African countries including Uganda previously found circumcision lowered men

 

[nlsme]

Circumcision not only protects against HIV in heterosexual men, but it also helps prevent two other sexually transmitted infections, a large new study found.
Circumcised males reduced their risk of infection with HPV, or human papillomavirus, by 35 percent and herpes by 28 percent. However, researchers found circumcision had no effect on the transmission of syphilis.

Landmark studies from three African countries including Uganda previously found circumcision lowered men’s chance of catching the AIDS virus by up to 60 percent. The new study stems from the Uganda research and looked at protection against three other STDs. The findings are reported in Thursday’s New England Journal of Medicine

“Evidence now strongly suggests that circumcision offers an important prevention opportunity and should be widely available,” Drs. Matthew Golden and Judith Wasserheit of the University of Washington wrote in an accompanying editorial.

Male circumcision may reduce some STD risks - Health - Sexual health - msnbc.com

Okay, the studies were conducted in Africa, where the risks of contracting stds is significantly higher. The study says it MAY reduce the risk, although they don't know why. Maybe it is because, in Africa, the circumcised penis is an unusual phenomena, and they actually have less sex because of it, thus greatly reducing the transmition of stds? I mean, IF I was to go to Africa, my biggest defense against an STD, is to not stick my wand into ANYTHING, not relying on my circumsized penis to protect me.

Now, MOST doctors in the US will tell you, there is no medical benefit to a circumsized penis, and there are negative risks involved. Ill take their word for it, before I will the skewed study of a 1000 people in Africa, especially considering they can't explain the results AT ALL.

Hell, there was a study that showed circumcision CAUSED aids. And that circumsized virgin males are up to 3 times more likely to have aids...
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/27/health/27iht-health.4734408.html

 

[vailpass]

Okay, the studies were conducted in Africa, where the risks of contracting stds is significantly higher. The study says it MAY reduce the risk, although they don't know why. Maybe it is because, in Africa, the circumcised penis is an unusual phenomena, and they actually have less sex because of it, thus greatly reducing the transmition of stds? I mean, IF I was to go to Africa, my biggest defense against an STD, is to not stick my wand into ANYTHING, not relying on my circumsized penis to protect me.

Now, MOST doctors in the US will tell you, there is no medical benefit to a circumsized penis, and there are negative risks involved. Ill take their word for it, before I will the skewed study of a 1000 people in Africa, especially considering they can't explain the results AT ALL.

1. Again, what do you think gives you the right to tell parents how to raise their children?

2. Do you mean to say "in Africa where the risk of AIDS is higher"? Or is it your position that the risk of STDs in the US is low?

3. Who are these "MOST doctors" you cite? If you are going to state facts please include a link citing your sources. Research Statistics 101. Until then I will probably accept the findings of a published report in the Annals of Epidemiology over your opinion.

4. Is it seriously your belief that these trained researchers, published in the New York Times and endorsed by the head of the World Health Organization, were statistically incorrect because "the circumcised penis is an unusual phenomena, and they actually have less sex because of it,..." and that you were able to catch the error which all of the above named experts overlooked?

 

[nlsme]

1. Again, what do you think gives you the right to tell parents how to raise their children?

2. Do you mean to say "in Africa where the risk of AIDS is higher"? Or is it your position that the risk of STDs in the US is low?

3. Who are these "MOST doctors" you cite? If you are going to state facts please include a link citing your sources. Research Statistics 101.

4. Is it seriously your belief that these trained researchers were statistically incorrect because "the circumcised penis is an unusual phenomena, and they actually have less sex because of it,..."?
You never took that Research Statistics class did you?

1. The fact that there are no positive health effects, and there ARE negative risks, being imposed on someone against their will. Why is it illegal for FGM to be practiced?
2.Comparatively speaking, the risks of catching an STD in America IS low.In Africa 20% of the population has AIDS, America less than .4%.
3.My wife is a Nurse Practitioner, I TALK to doctors ALL THE TIME, but here you go.

In 1975, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) stated in no uncertain terms that "there is no absolute medical indication for routine circumcision of the newborn." In 1983, the AAP and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) restated this position. In 1999 and again in 2005, the AAP again restated this position of equivocation.

Circumcision: Medical Pros and Cons--Infections, Disease, Hygiene and Cancer on MedicineNet.com
4.It is my assertion, that the researchers straight up said, they don't know why. I simply gave a reasonable theory.

 

[nlsme]

Think. What was being discussed?

Going from gay marriage to bestiality is the same logic pattern as going from circumcision to pulling off fingernails or raping little girls.

Neither are valid arguments.

It was being argued that the reason they should't be banned is because of religious freedoms. The religous freedoms of polygomysts, and those that believe in fmg, are a lot more relevant to the discussion than gay marriage, and beastiality. Nice try though....

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Why is polygamy being compared to same-sex marriage? We need to legalize both in order to ensure liberty and equality, imo.

 

[Dark Jedi]

1. Again, what do you think gives you the right to tell parents how to raise their children?

2. Do you mean to say "in Africa where the risk of AIDS is higher"? Or is it your position that the risk of STDs in the US is low?

3. Who are these "MOST doctors" you cite? If you are going to state facts please include a link citing your sources. Research Statistics 101. Until then I will probably accept the findings of a published report in the Annals of Epidemiology over your opinion.

4. Is it seriously your belief that these trained researchers, published in the New York Times and endorsed by the head of the World Health Organization, were statistically incorrect because "the circumcised penis is an unusual phenomena, and they actually have less sex because of it,..." and that you were able to catch the error which all of the above named experts overlooked?

actually yes its much higher risk to catch aids in Africa. I remember a news story where African males that had aids was going around raping women and infecting them. Plus your talking about a country that has no safe sex programs going around talking about safe sex of using a condom. Here in the US I bet more people practice safe sex and using precautions like a condom. More so now that aids has been around.

 

[Dark Jedi]

Why is polygamy being compared to same-sex marriage? We need to legalize both in order to ensure liberty and equality, imo.

Is there anything you don't think should be legal? Or something legal that shouldn't be? I think you tske the first admendment to literally.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Is there anything you don't think should be legal? Or something legal that shouldn't be? I think you tske the first admendment to literally.

I'm a conservative libertarian member of the Republican Party with very strong anti-prohibition beliefs. That's just me.

 

[Isthmus]

What about people bought to a Jewish Mother but non Jewish Father. What should happen then?

Technically that makes you automatically jewish by birth. It's not the same if your father is Jewish and your mother something else.

 

[ElasticNinja]

Technically that makes you automatically jewish by birth. It's not the same if your father is Jewish and your mother something else.

My point is what if they think there father was right and their mother wrong when they grow up.