ElasticNinja
Android Expert
Saw this linked somewhere else, found it an interesting read
The Black Hole of 9/11 - By David J. Rothkopf | Foreign Policy
The Black Hole of 9/11 - By David J. Rothkopf | Foreign Policy
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Interesting article regarding the importance of 9/11
- Thread starter ElasticNinja
- Start date
OutofDate1980
Android Expert
"If global temperatures rise another degree or three this century, 9/11 will be seen as a comparative footnote to an event that could remake the nature of life on Earth and lead to a toll many, many times greater than either 9/11 or the wars it triggered."
Troubling, to say the least.
Troubling, to say the least.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
I noticed the quotations, OutofDate. So I'll assume that you are quoting the piece. So take no offence should I disagree.
Balderdash, just balderdash, I say.
A few degrees does not matter and I know this because I am not a scientist. Since non-scientists are driving the global warming panic, I feel I should comment. I am as brilliant of a non-scientist as the other non-scientists driving G-Warm policy, So there.
Bollocks to the lot of 'em, I say.
Smiley.
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
I'll read it before commenting, but if the thesis of the article is that global warming is going to kill us all, I don't buy it.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
The thesis is that humans inaction with regards to scientists warnings will lead to wide ranging changes in our environment causing a lot of death and misery.
That's only #2...
Oh, 9/11 killed three thousand and violence in Iraq a hundred times that. When you look at things like the famine in the horn of Africa its easy to see the deaths
On-Topic, I don't think they are saying that GW will kill us all, rather the poorer people. The rich will be able to buy the food that is still available. Gloabal warming is most definately a problem that society as a whole needs to accept. Wether it is a man made problem as a whole or not does not matter. It IS a problem, and we should realize it isn't smart to poor gas on a fire.
Off-topic, I love the attempts at whit, while not doing anything to either substantiate ones claims, or refute the claims of others. Really brings the forum up a few notches.
Off-topic, I love the attempts at whit, while not doing anything to either substantiate ones claims, or refute the claims of others. Really brings the forum up a few notches.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
No, not going to happen. The rich will not control the food and just how much G-Warm hurts us or will hurt us or could possibly hurt us will likely always be debated. Give me a break, we will be A-OK.
Of course the rich will control the food, they already do. And, only the ignorant beleive GW will NOT hurt us. The only real debates, are to what degree it will hurt us, and what we can do to diminish its impact. As I said earlier, wether or not it is a man made problem does not matter. No matter the cause, the effect will be the same.
OutofDate1980
Android Expert
Somewhat related is the increase in classified expenditures as discussed in this Frontline show.
Top Secret America | FRONTLINE | PBS
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Went shopping earlier and very few rich people buying plums. Care to clarify what exactly it is you are trying to say? How exactly do the rich control the food?
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
There has been famine in Africa for 30 years. I remember in the 80s when it was THE biggest social problem that we had to fix. It's just now being blamed on global warming? Took them 30 years to get to that point? No political factors involved in that at all? Purely global warming?
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
I went shopping, but couldn't buy any bologna because a multi-millionaire cleaned out the entire meat section just 'cuz. True story.
Ok. Maybe not entirely true. I did go shopping though.
There are not many plums to go around in areas like Somalia, Kenya, or other poor countries now are there. Pro-tip, when trying to refute the claim that the rich control the food in a "witty" way, don't use the availability of a fruit in one of the RICHEST COUNTRIES ON EARTH to do it. It is kind of conceding in an extremely funny way.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Next time please mention you are not talking about the U.S. of A., but worldwide. Certainly, there are countries that have food issues and in many cases, it is because of those at the top. And those at the top are rich, so you are correct, I stand "corrected."
When given a chance, this country can feed the world cheaply and efficiently. The issue is greed and corruption in other countries that want more and more and give less of what they get to their people.
I live in Utah and the rich do not control the food. And if they did, it does not matter as long as I can get me some plums.
As for Kenya, try this link. Apparently, there are plums in Kenya.
KenyaBUZZ - Gardening in June in Kenya
Not to mention, lots of other stuff like casinos and bars:
KenyaBUZZ - Directory
Wait, what Kenya are YOU talking about?
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
I'm confused. Is the famine in Africa caused by the greedy rich people monopolizing the food supply or is it caused by global warming?
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Africa is a hot place. Well, mostly hot. A few degrees will not matter. In Utah, one winter might be ten or more degrees cooler or warmer than in was a year or a decade ago; the summers might show variances all over the place. A few degrees means nothing.
Today, I can take measurements every fifty feet and I'll see a change of a few degrees. Temps might be going up, but how much or what the impact is/will be is still hotly contested. Gore is desperate because people are discovering that the BS might outweigh the facts which vary widely.
I would suggest that in most parts of this country, a couple of degrees is not of concern. Some warn us that the planet will grow a few degrees hotter and that spells doom. Balderdash. If anything a few degrees will not matter because warm climates help produce great food in great abundance.
Growers want warmer temperatures because cold kills crops.
Africa's people are not stupid. The country has been populated for a very long time. If honorable people were in charge, they could solve some of Africa's problems. They need infrastructure and help and they need leadership that cares.
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
The major flaw in the global warming thing is that we've only been measuring temperatures for about a hundred years or so. That's it. Let's say for the sake of argument that the world is indeed warming. For all we know the Earth warms and cools in periods spanning thousands of years and what's happening is completely normal.
I would think the term "global" warming would make it pretty clear we were not discussing only America. And, although America is far separated from the poorest of nations, our economic future does not look so bright. In case you have failed to notice, the poor in America is fast becoming the fastest growing economic class.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
The West will always ne able to buy food - however this can push up process globally (and it does)
Oh no, precipitation levels have been decreasing in areas near the expanding Sahel for decades!
Oh no, precipitation levels have been decreasing in areas near the expanding Sahel for decades!
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
I am most bothered by this idea that a few degrees over a hundred years or so is taken seriously.
I recall reading a debate between a person that argued not only is global warming bad, but one of the reasons the temperatures often tend to cool is because of global warming; and a scientist that showed global warming data compiled from a dozen or so sources showing wide variations in the "official temperature."
The temperatures given for one date would vary widely. So San Francisco on July 5th, 1950, for example could be 70, 65, 90, 89, and so on, depending on the source. And they try to tell us that a few degrees makes any difference. Balderdash, I say.
You really cannot win.
Frisco
=Luceat Lux Vestra=
When that happens, when we see "expert" conflicting data, I turn to what my eyes and ears see and hear.
Go to Google images and input something like "polar cap shrinking," etc.
Nations which border the Arctic are already bickering over the newly emerging land and sea routes from ice cap melting. Polar bears and other creatures that live up there are finding their habitats shrinking.
That 2 degrees being bickered about has global implications, and it is because of the range of actual temperatures you (Bob) are talking about: the 2 degrees is an average of highs and lows. When the average changes, we know that the extremes on either end are also changing, thus the changes in the environment.
Go to Google images and input something like "polar cap shrinking," etc.
Nations which border the Arctic are already bickering over the newly emerging land and sea routes from ice cap melting. Polar bears and other creatures that live up there are finding their habitats shrinking.
That 2 degrees being bickered about has global implications, and it is because of the range of actual temperatures you (Bob) are talking about: the 2 degrees is an average of highs and lows. When the average changes, we know that the extremes on either end are also changing, thus the changes in the environment.
I have not seen ANY credible scientist try to pin statistics from a single location on a single day as proof of global warming. Really, you don't need to be a scientist to see the ice caps melting. You don't need to be a scientist to see the extreme weather happening all over the world. Whether it is a man made problem is a moot point. The ONLY real debates are to what extent it will effect us, and what can be done to mitigate its effect.
Actually, there are pretty accurate climate records going back thousands of years.
It is caused by a number of circumstances. Partly, they can't grow/raise enough food to sustain themselves. Partly, they are to poor to compete with the rich to be able to import enough food. Global warming is just going to exacerbate the problem. So is an exploding global population.
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
No, there really aren't as we didn't have the ability nor the inclination to measure climate temperatures that far back. When you're riding around in armor on a horse in the middle of summer, it's hot, but you don't think about exactly how hot it is. The scientific method has only been around 300-400 years or so. The thermometer was not invented until the 16th century. Even then it wasn't the most accurate device at first and we didn't have the ability to measure temperatures in the atmosphere if we wanted to as we had no way to get there.