Interesting article regarding the importance of 9/11

[zuben el genub]

You can measure temp by what grew. One study did involve Utah. Scientists studied packrat middens and found pollen/seeds and other artifacts from trees and plants that now grow mostly in the alpine zone. So it was colder then. Now plants from warmer climates seem to be migrating north.

We will either have to bioengineer our food crops or find others. Corn and wheat require a certain growing season. Should we only be able to grow them in the far north, the land area is not there.

You can see what too thick a cloud layer can do. The probes sent to Venus showed that. Too light an atmosphere and you have Mars.

One article I saw said that climate change would cause humans to evolve differently.

 

[nlsme]

No, there really aren't as we didn't have the ability nor the inclination to measure climate temperatures that far back. When you're riding around in armor on a horse in the middle of summer, it's hot, but you don't think about exactly how hot it is. The scientific method has only been around 300-400 years or so. The thermometer was not invented until the 16th century. Even then it wasn't the most accurate device at first and we didn't have the ability to measure temperatures in the atmosphere if we wanted to as we had no way to get there.

We don't have a thermometer on the sun, yet we have a pretty good idea how hot it is. Same for many other places, like distant stars, that we have never even been within a billion light years of. To say that there were know thermometers then, therefor there is no way of figureing it out is ignorant. We have the ability NOW to measure what the climate was THEN. In the ice caps are preserved extremely detailed records of atmospheric conditions. As well as other methods to determine past climate (tree rings, fossilized pollin, biological and inorganic marine sediments...). There are many differant ways to determine the past climate. In fact, for most of the earth's history, scientists have concluded that the earth's temperature's were on average 8-15 degrees c warmer than they are today. The thing is, for most of the earth's history, we were not part of it. Could the earth sustain us if it were to go back to its "norm"? That is the debate. I say, the earth isn't sustaining us now.

 

[Bob Maxey]

When that happens, when we see "expert" conflicting data, I turn to what my eyes and ears see and hear.

Go to Google images and input something like "polar cap shrinking," etc.

Nations which border the Arctic are already bickering over the newly emerging land and sea routes from ice cap melting. Polar bears and other creatures that live up there are finding their habitats shrinking.

That 2 degrees being bickered about has global implications, and it is because of the range of actual temperatures you (Bob) are talking about: the 2 degrees is an average of highs and lows. When the average changes, we know that the extremes on either end are also changing, thus the changes in the environment.

Perhaps what is happening with the ice is simply natural and man has nothing to do with it.

 

[nlsme]

Perhaps what is happening with the ice is simply natural and man has nothing to do with it.

Wether it is natural or not, really means nothing. All that matters is the effect it will have.

 

[Frisco]

Perhaps what is happening with the ice is simply natural and man has nothing to do with it.

I have been trying to see it that way, too.