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ISP WIN for United Kingdom!

They aren't being threatened with violence, but they are being potentially threatened with deprivation of internet access; which is extremely serious in the 21st century.

And as for theft, why is it theft? Because the law says so? The law used to say that women couldn't vote. It used to say that you could legally own someone as a slave. Just because the law says so doesn't make it so, and it doesn't make it right.

The trouble here is that RIAA, and the people who support them, seem to be under the impression that they, and artists, have a divine right to make money. They don't, any more than anyone else does.

Thousands of years of human trade has been built largely upon one basic principle: Plentyful things are cheap and rare things are expensive.

We're in an electronic world where, by all the laws of trade, digital music should be free; because it's potentially in limitless supply. We've had these similar situations before, such as during the industrial revolution when rare things made by hand suddenly became plentiful things made by machines. The market adjusts and copes naturally according to the natural laws of trade: Prices fall, new opportunities arise, and old ones die. People adapt and change.

RIAA doesn't want to adapt or change in the face of advancement. They want to maintain their, in many cases, very priviledged lifestyles. They want to keep everything just the same, and they're using their financial clout to force through laws to maintain that situation. They deserve to fail.

And as for the artists themselves. They have no more divine right to continue to make money from electronic sales than coal miners did from digging up coal. The smart ones adapt and find a way. The stupid fight to maintain the status quo.
 
They aren't being threatened with violence, but they are being potentially threatened with deprivation of internet access; which is extremely serious in the 21st century.
Internet is now considered a utility much like electricty/gas/water in the UK these days.
 
Mpw, I think you don't understand how the three strikes policy works. If they even accusse you, without any burden of proof mind you, three times, your cut off. what if your using filesharing to download legitmately free content? Why are more and more artists like ok, go acting out and speaking out against the riaa? What if you legally own the music your downloading?

In fact, more and more artists are embracing the digital age, cutting out the middle man (riaa, recording companies, etc) and making a killing for themselves. The only people siffering or those who can't adapt, and feel the industry should be put at a standstill because they want it that way.

You also need to look up the difference between infinite and scarce goods.

Just like here in the usa streaming media and rental kiosks put walk in video rental stores out of business. Do you think they should be punished as well?

Also, what's the difference between recording from the radio and downloading mp3's? Should we hunt people who do that down as well and not let them use recording devices any more?

now I just blew an atomic sized hoke through you logic mpw, im curious what you have to say now.
 
And what happens if you don't pay for the electricity you use, or water, or gas? or if you mis-use your service?

You get cut off. Is that not fair either?
That's not the point I was making. Of course you get cut off if you don't pay.
 
Actually, read the three strikes policy. They don't need one shred of proof before they shut you off. You can appeal, but by then the damage is done.
 
stalin had the same idea

Yep we don't need privacy at all.

"Sure officer, you can search my home, my car, my intimates drawer, my computer, everything!"


And mpw is trying to side step the issue here. Just because the law doesn't evolve at the pace of technology, doesn't mean the law is ethical or correct. As someone mentioned, it was illegal for women to vote at one time, and it evolved into something better. What's the difference? Please, explain the difference?

Copying, IS NOT, theft.


theft   [theft] Show IPA
 
Are you saying you think the police shouldn't have any right to search your home if they suspect you of a crime?

they shouldn't (and don't) have a right to search your home "if they suspect you of a crime"
they should (and do) have a right to search your home when they have enough proof to get a warrant

you seem to be trying to get rid of the need for warrants?
 
I'm not trying to get rid of the need for warrants either, but what's being argued here is that there would be an invasion of privacy without any evidence being required; that is simply not true, or do you disagree?
obviously yes

How is an ISP sending you a letter an invasion of privacy?
it's not, i wouldn't mind getting a letter from my isp saying they've been contacted by a rightsholder claiming copyright infringement by me

but i wouldn't want my isp to give my account information to anyone, including any rightsholder contacting them, unless served with a court order to do so
 

Are you saying you think the police shouldn't have any right to search your home if they suspect you of a crime?

Wouldn't that make being a criminal an awful lot easier? What about your privacy, how're you going to protect it without any legal recourse, which there could not be practically be if evidence can't be collected as proof?


Where is the ethical justification of not paying somebody for their work? Where is the ethical justification of taking and keeping what was not offered to you, or meant for you?

It was illegal for women to vote, that was and is demonstrably wrong, and the law changed in keeping with what is considered human rights of equality.

Please explain why you believe it is your human right to be allowed to benefit from another production of art without their consent, and without payment.


Unless what you
 
The market will decide how it is shaped, but your argument is about taking choice away from producers, not about allowing them to choose new income models.

If your vision of the future market comes to be then fine(I personally think it’d be to the detriment of quality and real choice, but that’s another issue perhaps), but you’re talking about back-dating your new income models over already published art, that had it’s production invested in under legal contracts. Why should those contracts of yesteryear be null & void because you just don’t want to pay? You’re the consumer, not a party to those contracts.
I love how you say "the market will decide how it is shaped".. yet you support attempts to literally control the market.

No businesses shouldn't try to find new and innovative ways to make money, they should just sue the crap out of everyone until no one has internet access, and they literally control every aspect of digital media.

Oh thats the third time you've watched this youtube video, your credit card will automatically be debited now.

Look..I want to take a minute to explain EVERYTHING you just pointed out over this entire thread.

Even though artist are the ones who benefit least from the RIAA, it is perfectly acceptable for the RIAA to use them to generate cash for everyone else.

It doesn't matter that the RIAA is really supporting itself before anyone else, it is ok to completely undermine the people who make the industry possible! (the artist) because, the RIAA is going to make its money!

What I have gathered from this conversation, is your are perfectly fine with the RIAA acting like it is the artist best friend and completely ripping them off.

Everything I Have seen seems to support the RIAA's right to make money for itself as a business not protect artist or any sort of industry.

You can't say the RIAA is there for protecting people in one sentence.. and then saying it is there to make money in another.

Do you want artist to be protected?
or
Do you want an exploitative company to make profits for itself?

I am fine with either answer businesses have the right to make money.. but, I really see a flaw in logic here.

I'm sorry... piracy sounds more moral than the RIAA at this point :/
 
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