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Lease a rip-off or not?

and all you are going to have to do is take your 1mil to your wooden casket. You are compairing walking to leasing car. Its like compairing living in the box and savings every penny to enjoying life at your possible means.

You are not reading a thing I posted. There was a deal on Honda Accord SE. Total payment add up to $5500 for 3 years. You'd have to own a $21,000 car for over 11
years just to get the overall price per month to
match this deal. How is it bad? no tire changes, no brake jobs.

No, I'm comparing paying cash for a car vs leasing. I'm comparing paying $5-10k for a good quality used car vs leasing a car. I paid $7k for my car about 3.5 yrs ago for example. If you leased a car at the same time your lease would be up and you'd be getting a new car. Meanwhile, my car continues to truck along costing me nothing in payments. In another 3 yrs I will still have my car that I paid $7k for while you'll be $11k and still be looking for another car.

In short, you're tying up your money making payments to other people while I am stashing my money away where it works for me.
 
No, I'm comparing paying cash for a car vs leasing. I'm comparing paying $5-10k for a good quality used car vs leasing a car. I paid $7k for my car about 3.5 yrs ago for example. If you leased a car at the same time your lease would be up and you'd be getting a new car. Meanwhile, my car continues to truck along costing me nothing in payments. In another 3 yrs I will still have my car that I paid $7k for while you'll be $11k and still be looking for another car.

In short, you're tying up your money making payments to other people while I am stashing my money away where it works for me.


What was the last time you have seen good quality car for 5k? How much valuable time you are going to spend searching for a nice car for 5k.
We are not talking about some car enthusiasts here, we are talking about married person with kids who has to make money, take care of kids, his health, career and have social life.
You paid 7.5k for your car. how much money have you put into it already? How much does it worth now? How much time and effort you are going to have to put into trying to sell it? in 3 years your used car value has dropped value dramatically, its not so great on gas and you have spend losts of money on parts and some necessary maintance.

assume you spent 7k on your beater in 3 years it only cost 4k. You have bought new tires, brakes, changed starter, battery, candles, few things are not working properly and you spend some money on necessary repairs. You are still a winner in financial point of view if your beater did not give you any serious issues along the way.

Meanwhile I paid $5500 to drive new car off the lot for 3yrs. I don't care about repairs, tires etc. Not to mention my MPG is much better, so I save in gas.

Please take your million dollar math elsewhere.
 
I had to go check what I actually paid for it. I pulled up my ebay invoice and found I paid $6500 for it. According to Kelley Blue Book it is worth $7k in good condition. So, after 3.5 yrs KBB claims I could sell it for a profit. Realistically I could get at least $6k out of it locally I think. This is the HUGE advantage of used cars. At a certain point there value stops going down significantly.

Maintenance on my car has been minimum. You are spending $5500 over 3 years on a car. I'm spending $0. If I end up having to spend more than $5500 in repairs then I have a freaking lemon and why in the world am I sticking with it? Also, at the end of the 3 years you have spend $5500 and now have nothing. At the end of the 3 years I still have my $7500 car. Even if I did spend $5500 in maintenance (which would be insane) I can still sell my car and get some of that back. You have nothing.

It is a fact that leasing a car is the most expensive way to own a car. That's not my assertion, that's Consumer Reports and Edmunds saying that.
 
Also, if I was going to buy a car today, I'd probably buy something like this one -
1
Honda : Civic Hybrid Sedan 4-Door in Honda | eBay Motors

It's 8 yrs old, has low miles on it and it's a Civic so it's got a good reliability record. They're asking $10k for it. I would offer then $8k myself. Took me about 30 seconds to find it on ebay.
 
My first car was a great car. It was a used 1992 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera S. I paid $1800 for it, plus $600 on tires, alignment, and brakes. It only had 92,000 miles on it and no real reliabilty issues. Even the interior was like-new. Just gotta know how to look.

I see no issue with financing my Volkswagen Jetta TDI. Brand new, had 34 miles on it from test drives. It should last me about 350,000 miles or so. But most importantly, I really enjoy that car. I loved the Olds, but I can afford the TDI and its financing, and Ilike it, so its worth it to me.

I refused to lease it, though. Why pay out that much money for something I don't own? Its wasted. A bit more and I can keep the car in 6 years. :-)
 
All this talk is making me want to upgrade. I've had my car for 3 yrs I could sell it for what I paid for, tack another $2-3k on it and buy a pretty nice car for $10k. Can't bring myself to sell a perfectly good vehicle though. Oh well.
 
That's what I'm saying. You lose like 20% of the value in the first year and like 40-50% in the first 5 years if I remember correctly. You are sick of your car after 5 years and I sneak in and buy it for half of what you paid. Works for me. :)

Exactly.





FYI I have 2 cars and one is financed another one is leased. Financed car is going to get run to the ground by my parents. The leased one is getting its 4 banger engine to 7-8k rpm all the time. I never warm it up. I don't care if I don't change the oil on time or it's going to be changed a little later. etc.

Are you joking? This will make me reconsider before ever purchasing a previously leased car.
 
Everyone is making really good points and arguments here. I really appreciate all the opinions and good solid info.

Fact is that I have a 08 carry with 165k on it that I bought outright for 5,5k plus my 14 year old camry (it was a 98)

I have that new car urge and don't want a 400 dollar payment. 209 is right up my alley, and unless I'm miraculously making 6 figures at the end of 3 years I'm buying the car at end of lease, no question about that.

Of course, I may have a settlement coming in, in which case I will fork over the 30k upfront (after I haggle the crap out of the dealer) and with warranties and service agreements not worry about anything for at least the first 100k

:D
 
Everyone is making really good points and arguments here. I really appreciate all the opinions and good solid info.

Fact is that I have a 08 carry with 165k on it that I bought outright for 5,5k plus my 14 year old camry (it was a 98)

I have that new car urge and don't want a 400 dollar payment. 209 is right up my alley, and unless I'm miraculously making 6 figures at the end of 3 years I'm buying the car at end of lease, no question about that.

Of course, I may have a settlement coming in, in which case I will fork over the 30k upfront (after I haggle the crap out of the dealer) and with warranties and service agreements not worry about anything for at least the first 100k

:D
One thing I like about leasing, is if you do the standard 36 month, 36,000 mile lease then the car is covered under warranty. After the warranty period runs out then it's someone else's problem. That being said, you can always buy an extended warranty for up to 100,000 miles.
Compare the Costs: Buying vs. Leasing vs. Buying a Used Car

Edmunds actually does a really in-depth breakdown of the numbers. Compares buying a new car vs leasing a new car vs buying a 3 yr old used car. Costs almost $16k more to own/operate a leased car over a 3 yr old car. If you're doing $16k of maint on your car over a 5 yr period you've got a lemon.
I like to buy three or four year cars, as they are still newish and not as expensive as buying a new car. However I'll always buy an extended warranty as I learned not doing so is more expensive in the long run.
 
Compare the Costs: Buying vs. Leasing vs. Buying a Used Car

Edmunds actually does a really in-depth breakdown of the numbers. Compares buying a new car vs leasing a new car vs buying a 3 yr old used car. Costs almost $16k more to own/operate a leased car over a 3 yr old car. If you're doing $16k of maint on your car over a 5 yr period you've got a lemon.

That is true about the lemon, possibility of that is pretty high now days if you live someone around east coast, because there are many flooded cars around.
Maybe I'm missing something from their site, but where are they getting the lease numbers from.
I did not exactly got the best lease deal but here it is.

they have on $30000 car for 1 year.
Down Payment
$1,364
Monthly payment $433 per month $4,763
Insurance
$2,581
Maintenance & repairs $194
Taxes and DMV Fees $1,357
TOTAL $8,895


You can lease a $43000 car for this money. here is the reference.Acura MDX - $379.26 a month + Acquisition Fee + Tax
 
other thing is used cars market is extremely overpriced right now. Thanks to financial crisis, cash for clunkers and few other things. When its going to go down you are no longer going to get that much money for used cars.

It actually makes sanse to buy a new car right now, bexause used market is a rip off for sure
 
Also, if I was going to buy a car today, I'd probably buy something like this one -
1
Honda : Civic Hybrid Sedan 4-Door in Honda | eBay Motors

It's 8 yrs old, has low miles on it and it's a Civic so it's got a good reliability record. They're asking $10k for it. I would offer then $8k myself. Took me about 30 seconds to find it on ebay.


You are arguing about lease and used without realizing that used cars are extremely overpriced right now.
My good friend got 2005 honda Odyssey EXL with 70k miles in 2009 for $12000. Car lasted well until he got into car accident. Car was repaired but issues started to pop up. He had to change his engine mounts later one, for some reason a set of the mounts is about $700 plus the labor,(http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts...&fp=pp&gbm=a&gclid=CMCoxsGqgbYCFbGPPAodLFgAIA here is the reference, one mount is $500) that was just one issue with the car.
 
You are arguing about lease and used without realizing that used cars are extremely overpriced right now.
My good friend got 2005 honda Odyssey EXL with 70k miles in 2009 for $12000. Car lasted well until he got into car accident. Car was repaired but issues started to pop up. He had to change his engine mounts later one, for some reason a set of the mounts is about $700 plus the labor,(2005-2007 Honda Odyssey Engine Mount - Engine Mechanical - Genuine, Rear 05-07 Odyssey Engine Mount - 18373-01100598 - PartsGeek here is the reference, one mount is $500) that was just one issue with the car.

So, you are saying that if he got in the same accident with a brand new car he wouldn't have any problems with his engine mounts? That is a ridiculously silly argument.
 
So, you are saying that if he got in the same accident with a brand new car he wouldn't have any problems with his engine mounts? That is a ridiculously silly argument.


here is the thing, car was running fine, a little bit of shaking at stops. It was probably time to change them anyway. If it was a new car it would most likely to be covered by factory warranty. Even if not I don't think it would break down transmission for few years while car would be leased.

He also lost few thousand at selling it because it was in a structural damage. Plus the costs of extra repairs. He leases his car right not, no issues so far.
 
here is the thing, car was running fine, a little bit of shaking at stops. It was probably time to change them anyway. If it was a new car it would most likely to be covered by factory warranty. Even if not I don't think it would break down transmission for few years while car would be leased.

He also lost few thousand at selling it because it was in a structural damage. Plus the costs of extra repairs. He leases his car right not, no issues so far.

No issues with the car, but he's still paying far, far, far more in lease payments. He spends $700 in car repairs vs $4k plus (your number, not mine) in payments). Plus, he got something out of selling it while with a lease you get nothing.
 
No issues with the car, but he's still paying far, far, far more in lease payments. He spends $700 in car repairs vs $4k plus (your number, not mine) in payments). Plus, he got something out of selling it while with a lease you get nothing.


lease is for convenient not mpney savings that is true. I'm just trying to point out that it's not that much of a difference as much as you are trying to point out. lease is more expensive thats obvious, but sometimes you save valuable time and few bucks on repairs.
 
lease is for convenient not mpney savings that is true. I'm just trying to point out that it's not that much of a difference as much as you are trying to point out. lease is more expensive thats obvious, but sometimes you save valuable time and few bucks on repairs.

It really is a whole lot more though. You don't save time 'cuz you're going to go look for cars anyway. You're not going to go into the lot and lease the first car you lay eyes on. You're going to go around to different lots, drive different cars, research models online, etc..... It's the exact same thing you'd do if you bought a car. So the time savings just isn't there at all. What you pay in repairs is less than what you pay in payments.

For example, let's say I buy a used car for $10k and you lease a new car for $4k a year like you mentioned. Let's say we both ditch our cars after three years and are in the market for something new. Right off the bat, I'm paying less. You're paying $12k in payments and I'm paying $10k. (We're not even factoring in fees and other costs that are going to make your cost higher.) But you pay nothing for maintenance on your car and if your car breaks down you pay nothing so maybe it all evens out.

You've got to do an oil change every 3 months. Let's say I'm spending $100 every three months on an oil change. This is, of course, an absurd price to pay for an oil change, but I'm getting hose and don't realize it. So I pay $400 a year in oil changes. Let's also say that during that three year period I end up paying for a major repair to the tune of $1,000. So I paid $1200 over three years in overpriced oil changes, plus $1k in a major repair bill and now after three years you are out $12k and I'm out $12,200. So, the costs of owning them both are virtually the same right? Wrong. Because we've left out one thing. I own my car. After three years you have nothing and are in the market for another vehicle. After three years I sell my car and am in the market for another vehicle. Even if my car lost half it's value (which is as absurd as the $100 oil changes), I am left with $5k in cash and my car cost me $7200 to operate compared to $12000 for you. Your car cost ~40% more to operate and you are left with nothing. My car cost 40% less and I have $5k in my pocket that I can use for another vehicle. This is assuming high maintenance costs and a low re-sale value on my car. The reality is the difference is probably more.

It's a free country. If you want to lease cars your whole life you certainly can. Personally, I think it's kind of foolish because you are flushing away money that you could be investing/saving. Over the course of a lifetime that money really, really adds up. That's why I said I hope you like the car. Over the course of your lifetime it will cost you close to a million dollars to lease a car / buy a new car. To me it's not worth it. I'd rather have a million in my pocket when I retire. Even if I'm half wrong, I'd rather have half a million in my pocket.
 
It really is a whole lot more though. You don't save time 'cuz you're going to go look for cars anyway. You're not going to go into the lot and lease the first car you lay eyes on. You're going to go around to different lots, drive different cars, research models online, etc..... It's the exact same thing you'd do if you bought a car. So the time savings just isn't there at all. What you pay in repairs is less than what you pay in payments.

For example, let's say I buy a used car for $10k and you lease a new car for $4k a year like you mentioned. Let's say we both ditch our cars after three years and are in the market for something new. Right off the bat, I'm paying less. You're paying $12k in payments and I'm paying $10k. (We're not even factoring in fees and other costs that are going to make your cost higher.) But you pay nothing for maintenance on your car and if your car breaks down you pay nothing so maybe it all evens out.

You've got to do an oil change every 3 months. Let's say I'm spending $100 every three months on an oil change. This is, of course, an absurd price to pay for an oil change, but I'm getting hose and don't realize it. So I pay $400 a year in oil changes. Let's also say that during that three year period I end up paying for a major repair to the tune of $1,000. So I paid $1200 over three years in overpriced oil changes, plus $1k in a major repair bill and now after three years you are out $12k and I'm out $12,200. So, the costs of owning them both are virtually the same right? Wrong. Because we've left out one thing. I own my car. After three years you have nothing and are in the market for another vehicle. After three years I sell my car and am in the market for another vehicle. Even if my car lost half it's value (which is as absurd as the $100 oil changes), I am left with $5k in cash and my car cost me $7200 to operate compared to $12000 for you. Your car cost ~40% more to operate and you are left with nothing. My car cost 40% less and I have $5k in my pocket that I can use for another vehicle. This is assuming high maintenance costs and a low re-sale value on my car. The reality is the difference is probably more.

It's a free country. If you want to lease cars your whole life you certainly can. Personally, I think it's kind of foolish because you are flushing away money that you could be investing/saving. Over the course of a lifetime that money really, really adds up. That's why I said I hope you like the car. Over the course of your lifetime it will cost you close to a million dollars to lease a car / buy a new car. To me it's not worth it. I'd rather have a million in my pocket when I retire. Even if I'm half wrong, I'd rather have half a million in my pocket.

I did not go around lots looking for cars, I mailed 10 (roughly speaking) dealerships around town, wrote them what I want, I ended up at pretty big dealership, 3 hours later I had my brand new car.

I'm looking for a used car right now I've already spent hours and hours online, few days going around dealerships, few days visiting private parties. I know what you are going to tell me "lease another one", sorry can't I need to send that car overseas. So most of cars either crap, or have been in some serious accident, or sellers just want way too much for it. I'm already ready to give up that idea because it's taking too much time that I don't have.

I save enough money every month (I cook, I cook lunch, I don't even have cable TV in my home, I only buy things on sale and do not wear expensive clothing, I take bicycle to work) and I can afford to buy far better car than my Honda Accord. I choose to lease it
a)I and my girlfriend wanted to build credit history
b)neither of us were really good drivers and we decided that we can get something else after 3 years.
c) I work 6 days a week +overtimes, she does too, we simply do not have time to repair our car, our wasted time costs money. I agree even new car can break down, but probability of that is very low.
d)it's great on gas and we got insurance quote lower for new car than for used one. Go figure why. So we save on gas and insurance.
e)It's mostly driven by my girlfriend who is a manager of about 30 people. I wanted here to look presentable without breaking our budget.

I like the car it's simple, spacious, good on gas. If there will be something better on the market in 3 years just because gas is going to hit $5 per gallon really soon and there will be new technologies.

Convenience.
 
Your "convenience" is costing you a million bucks over the course of your lifetime. For me, that's not even close to being worth it. Personally I don't think it's "more convenient" myself, but even if it is, is it a million bucks worth of convenient? You're going to trade being a millionaire for "convenience"? To me that's ridiculous. Few millionaires drive new cars. Just pointing that out.
 
That is true about the lemon, possibility of that is pretty high now days if you live someone around east coast, because there are many flooded cars around.
Maybe I'm missing something from their site, but where are they getting the lease numbers from.
I did not exactly got the best lease deal but here it is.

they have on $30000 car for 1 year.
Down Payment
$1,364
Monthly payment $433 per month $4,763
Insurance
$2,581
Maintenance & repairs $194
Taxes and DMV Fees $1,357
TOTAL $8,895


You can lease a $43000 car for this money. here is the reference.Acura MDX - $379.26 a month + Acquisition Fee + Tax

Agreed, I'm looking at payments of around 220 for a 28k vehicle that I will be buying at the end of three years.

There will be ZERO maintenance fees and my trade in is my down payment. While yes, I am ending up with nothing st end of 3 years, I will be negotiating to buy a used car that I know EXACTLY what and where it has been and how it has been maintained.

I'll take that





Your "convenience" is costing you a million bucks over the course of your lifetime. For me, that's not even close to being worth it. Personally I don't think it's "more convenient" myself, but even if it is, is it a million bucks worth of convenient? You're going to trade being a millionaire for "convenience"? To me that's ridiculous. Few millionaires drive new cars. Just pointing that out.

So if i don't lease I'll be a millionaire.

Frankly I find that entire line of reasoning absurd. WAY too many 'what ifs' and 'maybes' in that line of thinking.

But to each their own :)
 
Agreed, I'm looking at payments of around 220 for a 28k vehicle that I will be buying at the end of three years.

There will be ZERO maintenance fees and my trade in is my down payment. While yes, I am ending up with nothing st end of 3 years, I will be negotiating to buy a used car that I know EXACTLY what and where it has been and how it has been maintained.

I'll take that

The only thing that differs in the equation is the payment. Your payment may well be $50 a month less for a different model of car. You'll still pay the DMV fees and insurance. Yes, the numbers will differ for different models. The principle is the same though. Leasing is a very, very expensive way to operate a vehicle.

So if i don't lease I'll be a millionaire.

Frankly I find that entire line of reasoning absurd. WAY too many 'what ifs' and 'maybes' in that line of thinking.

But to each their own :)

No, if you don't lease and take the money that you would've spent in payments and invest it you'd be a millionaire. You're welcome to poke holes in my math. I used 10% interest (what the market averages) compounded annually over 30 years. If you use your $376 payment, you'd have $822,977.71. Feel free to double check my math. Like I said, what if I'm half wrong? You'd still have $400k. There are expensive and there are inexpensive ways to do things. Leasing/buying new are far more expensive than buying used.

Again, it's your money. Do with it what you will. I just think people should recognize what kind of cash they are giving up just to drive a new car. Personally, I don't think it's worth giving up a million dollars in order to always have a new/newer car. That's just me. Your mileage may vary. If you think it's worth it, knock yourself out. I am not filthy rich. Maybe you are. Maybe you can afford it. Personally, I can't.
 
The only thing that differs in the equation is the payment. Your payment may well be $50 a month less for a different model of car. You'll still pay the DMV fees and insurance. Yes, the numbers will differ for different models. The principle is the same though. Leasing is a very, very expensive way to operate a vehicle.



No, if you don't lease and take the money that you would've spent in payments and invest it you'd be a millionaire. You're welcome to poke holes in my math. I used 10% interest (what the market averages) compounded annually over 30 years. If you use your $376 payment, you'd have $822,977.71. Feel free to double check my math. Like I said, what if I'm half wrong? You'd still have $400k. There are expensive and there are inexpensive ways to do things. Leasing/buying new are far more expensive than buying used.

Again, it's your money. Do with it what you will. I just think people should recognize what kind of cash they are giving up just to drive a new car. Personally, I don't think it's worth giving up a million dollars in order to always have a new/newer car. That's just me. Your mileage may vary. If you think it's worth it, knock yourself out. I am not filthy rich. Maybe you are. Maybe you can afford it. Personally, I can't.


there was a cool Top Gear episode where Jeremy said you can get an S class vs new budget nissan for £8000. Next episode is making fun of Jeremy who's used S class starter broke and he had to pay £1500 to fix it :-)
 
there was a cool Top Gear episode where Jeremy said you can get an S class vs new budget nissan for £8000. Next episode is making fun of Jeremy who's used S class starter broke and he had to pay £1500 to fix it :-)


That's still less than what you would be paying in lease payments.
 
I just ran into another beneficial of leasing to certain people. If you are visiting US for 2-3 years for job purpuses and you need a car, lease is a good option. Your head is not going to hurt at the time when you are leaving US.
 
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