Weazol
Android Enthusiast
no according to ofthedamned it was settled before court
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Lesbian Awarded Damages for Prom Ban
- Thread starter hakr100
- Start date
no according to ofthedamned it was settled before court
OfTheDamned
The Friendly Undead
No, she won the case. The school settled after she won, but before she was awarded anything. I can't remember what that part is called right this minute though. That is one of the reasons I was saying that if she was only in it for the money she would have stayed with it until the end.
I appreciate that. My girl and I have had it pretty good though. I know many gay people that have had it MUCH worse than we've ever even thought of. Like I said, the one that really hurt the most was when it affected my son. Nothing ever hurts you as bad as when it hurts your kids.
I think you are right, lesbians are much more accepted than gay men. It may have to do with certain fantasies that guys have and it may just be apart of our society to accept women who are different more than men who are different. I know that most men I have been friends with think it is really cool to hang out with a lesbian, until they see me as competition. Then they aren't as thrilled with the idea. I have been a pretty good "wing man" in the past for some of my guy friends though.
Weazol
Android Enthusiast
Ok I will back down then.
The title of this made it seem like she was just after 35 grand
OfTheDamned
The Friendly Undead
I understand your position a lot more now. I might have actually agreed with you if that was the case.
F
faber78
Guest
If that's the case and she followed it through to the end my opinion might change as well. I don't know anything about the case, other than what was stated on this thread.
I'm sure you've gotten the "You're going to hell" for being a lesbian. When I die and go to hell I am going to takeover the throne down there even if I have to do it by force. Hell will be the new goal and Heaven will be the boring, safe place. All lesbians will be appointed to the highest class!I appreciate that. My girl and I have had it pretty good though. I know many gay people that have had it MUCH worse than we've ever even thought of. Like I said, the one that really hurt the most was when it affected my son. Nothing ever hurts you as bad as when it hurts your kids.
I think you are right, lesbians are much more accepted than gay men. It may have to do with certain fantasies that guys have and it may just be apart of our society to accept women who are different more than men who are different. I know that most men I have been friends with think it is really cool to hang out with a lesbian, until they see me as competition. Then they aren't as thrilled with the idea. I have been a pretty good "wing man" in the past for some of my guy friends though.
You shouldn't be competition to your guy friends unless they are chasing lesbians, right? But yeah, women make great wingmen! If you ever come to the Philly area let me know! Haha!
mrqs
Android Expert
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
What about this case warrants a monetary reward of that scale? Seriously? Sure the school should be punished, and everyone involed, but where was or how could there be a monetary damage of this magnitude? And before making any snap judgements, id like to hear both sides of the story. After all, the trith is generally somewhere in the middle. Was this girl a bad student? Promiscuous behavior in public areas of the school? Etc etc. Any other violations of school policies? Law breaking? Id like to hear what really happened, from both sides.
Litigious society. These days, emotional experiences are equated with money. Kinda like "buying your happiness." Even though it may not provide the same joy of going to her prom, she's walking out with some cash so she can elope with her lesbian-lover.
I think fining the school is appropriate, but doesn't that take away from the kids that go there? Maybe getting the school officials on some sensitivity counseling? It won't change them, but at least they'll suffer a bit like the lesbian did. An eye for an eye.
How much do you think the defendant should've requested in damages if not $35,000? how much would you have awarded as suitable punishment against the school?
Edit:
I'll ask the same question as above of you too smacky.
Even if she was(and there's zero suggestion anywhere of that being the case), the school should've prevented her on those grounds, not based on sexuality.
Well, if I remember the story correctly, there wasn't a prom. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it won't make a difference on what I still think is appropriate.
I think the cost of the prom. If there wasn't a prom, host a prom with the fine money, and people can donate more if they feel like it. It won't be hard to get the surrounding community's support, much less the entire internet's support if you post in the right places.
A delayed prom sounds shitty, but it should be an option.
If the students don't want a prom, and I say they questionnaire all students and gauge interest that way, then award the students a cash sum for the prom. Divide whatever the cost, x, of a typical prom, and send checks students or their families. After all, it is the families and community that pays for these things. Hell, the prom I never went to was funded by senior candy sales. The seniors actually worked for a portion of the funding.
Something along those lines. Or you can simply do nothing. It's not like doing the above won't have negative consequences either. When a minority starts to see things go their way, a few of the rotten apples take advantage of it and ruin it for the others. So all the decent homosexuals may just take the higher road in a situation and attribute silly actions like this to ignorance, some may find the most trivial things and make it a sexual orientation thing. We've seen it with race and gender discrimination cases.
But you can't snub them either.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
How much? However much in monetary losses she sustained. Prom dress, legal fees, etc. Nothing that would amount to 35k. Punishment for the school? Fire all the pfficials that made this happen. Hire new people. Make an example out of them. Because one girl doesn't go to prom the kids have to suffer? There goes that new computer lab or science lab.
Do you really think forcing people to host/attend a prom is really appropriate?
This girl sued because of the injustice, she didn't seek to punish, but to prevent the continuation or repeat of injustice.
No, it's not because one girl doesn't get to go to a prom; it's because a section of the community, homosexuals, were being persecuted. Anyway, the science lab for the kids should be safe, the school board will just claim on their insurance.
Worth repeating:
This girl sued because of the injustice, she didn't seek to punish or gain financially, but to prevent the continuation or repeat of injustice.
Do you really think forcing people to host/attend a prom is really appropriate?
This girl sued because of the injustice, she didn't seek to punish, but to prevent the continuation or repeat of injustice.
No, it's not because one girl doesn't get to go to a prom; it's because a section of the community, homosexuals, were being persecuted. Anyway, the science lab for the kids should be safe, the school board will just claim on their insurance.
Worth repeating:
This girl sued because of the injustice, she didn't seek to punish or gain financially, but to prevent the continuation or repeat of injustice.
Does money equal "prevention of the continuation of injustice? Who's to say the school now continues to ban homos from prom to make a point and just continues to pay fines like this to assuage the community?
Where did I say students should be "forced" to attend prom?
How much can I sue you for the injustice that are your posts, which in three threads now, has merely been the role of playing Devil's Advocate?
No, but the money was not her core reason to sue.
You really don't appear to know what you're talking about; maybe it's time you either read up or shut up?
Part of the legal settlement was that the school adopts a non discriminating policy; it can't continue to pay fines like this because this wasn't a fine, it was a settlement, and one they'd be very unlikely be able to repeat under any such policy you propose.
You suggested that the 'fine' should be used to host a prom, despite the fact that making the hosting of a prom under duress as a punishment would totally miss the spirit of such an event.
I think you totally lack any empathy or understanding as to why this girl took the legal action she did.
I think I understand what you're saying, but you do make it difficult(whether deliberatly or not): show me where my posts have been unjust please.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
So how does the awarding of monies in any way shape or form, to someone who has sustained little or no financial loss, considered justice?
I got picked on in school because I was the nerdy kid. Do I deserve some sort of big settlement? After the columbine incident I was pulled out of my electronics class and interrogated by the school deans and police to see if I was a threat to shoot up the school. So were the rest of the people who had high GPA's and didn't care to mesh in with the jocks and such. Do we deserve a monetary settlement as well? Its still discrimination is it not? What's fair for one is fair for all right? But no, we only pay attention to groups that are thrust in the limelight, and no one gives a rats ass about the other groups. Talk about a double standard. If people preach equality for all, I expect it.
I got picked on in school because I was the nerdy kid. Do I deserve some sort of big settlement? After the columbine incident I was pulled out of my electronics class and interrogated by the school deans and police to see if I was a threat to shoot up the school. So were the rest of the people who had high GPA's and didn't care to mesh in with the jocks and such. Do we deserve a monetary settlement as well? Its still discrimination is it not? What's fair for one is fair for all right? But no, we only pay attention to groups that are thrust in the limelight, and no one gives a rats ass about the other groups. Talk about a double standard. If people preach equality for all, I expect it.
Generally if somebody has damage done to them there is often no other way to award damages other than financially.
As much as people say they would like to see 'an eye for an eye', this simply is not a practical solution in many cases; if somebody causes damage to your reputation by publicly announcing falsely you to be a paedophile, then the solution to that damage is not to publicly announce false information about them.
A court will therefore award damages financially, and often the court will award punitive damages on top of actual damages as a form of punishment where other forms aren't practical; such as sending a school board to jail.
That would depend on the circumstances, I'm assuming you're content with what you settled for?
What damage was done to you? If you were simply questioned and then allowed to go I see no damage.
mrqs
Android Expert
That's the point I was making, 'an eye for an eye' etc. is not a practical remedy to damage, it's just a punishment, and IMO not a practical one.
Generally in the case of deformation of character the only suitable remedy is financial, and very often the plaintiff will be heard saying that no amount of money alone would make up for the anguish of the damage; I've never heard somebody sue in such cases solely for the money, and part of the remedy is nearly always a retraction of the false statement.
Financial damages are not the perfect solution, but at least they're practical in the vast majority of cases.
3devious
Android Expert
Well, since society frowns upon kicking someone in the junk when they are being a douche, people go for your wallet to bring the pain in the only way that Americans seem to understand. If I were her, I would have offered the money back plus some to give the staff, classmates and their parents a good kick (and no, the guys couldn't wear a cup.) I'd throw in even more if I were allowed to tape it. I would keep that longer than prom photos of me with obnoxious 80s hair.
OfTheDamned
The Friendly Undead
As far as the money goes, it is the way our society works.
When kids do something wrong they are punished by having something taken away or in a physical way. Taking something away is usually done in the form of grounding (loss of freedom), time outs (loss of freedom on a shorter scale), toys or property taken away, privileges revoked etc.
In the adult world we still use the same punishments for the most part. When someone does something wrong with regards to breaking a law we take away their freedom and put them in jail (grounded, timeout and revoking privileges) or we fine them (taking something away from them). When someone does something to someone on a personal level, such as this case, the main way that our system is going to deal with it is by taking something from someone (the school) and giving it to someone else (the girl). Since there aren't too many things that can be taken from the school, the natural thing to take is money. Which is the case when stuff like this happens majority of the time.
The eye for an eye thing isn't really practical in our society majority of the time. In a wrongful death case, the victim's family is awarded a monetary amount for the loss of their loved one. If we really tried to practice eye for an eye then a family who lost a son would then get to kill the other families son. Even if you agree with the idea, it isn't going to happen. So the family who lost their son gets money form the family who caused the loss.
Also, most of us had problems in high school. Even the prom king and queen had problems simply because they were teenagers. Nobody has a perfect life when they are a teenager. The difference is that most of the people we all went to school with were not and are not discriminated against by those that run the school. The people in charge aren't supposed to do that and they knew it was wrong in this case from the start.
Last, the school did have a prom. Majority of the kids in the school attended the real prom. The girl and a few others were sent to a decoy prom so that they would not be in attendance of the real prom. This shows are much farther the school went to discriminate against her and only shows, to me anyway, why they should have been punished even more. They payed her $35k and made a promise not to do it again. I don't even remember reading anything about the school officials losing their jobs.
When kids do something wrong they are punished by having something taken away or in a physical way. Taking something away is usually done in the form of grounding (loss of freedom), time outs (loss of freedom on a shorter scale), toys or property taken away, privileges revoked etc.
In the adult world we still use the same punishments for the most part. When someone does something wrong with regards to breaking a law we take away their freedom and put them in jail (grounded, timeout and revoking privileges) or we fine them (taking something away from them). When someone does something to someone on a personal level, such as this case, the main way that our system is going to deal with it is by taking something from someone (the school) and giving it to someone else (the girl). Since there aren't too many things that can be taken from the school, the natural thing to take is money. Which is the case when stuff like this happens majority of the time.
The eye for an eye thing isn't really practical in our society majority of the time. In a wrongful death case, the victim's family is awarded a monetary amount for the loss of their loved one. If we really tried to practice eye for an eye then a family who lost a son would then get to kill the other families son. Even if you agree with the idea, it isn't going to happen. So the family who lost their son gets money form the family who caused the loss.
Also, most of us had problems in high school. Even the prom king and queen had problems simply because they were teenagers. Nobody has a perfect life when they are a teenager. The difference is that most of the people we all went to school with were not and are not discriminated against by those that run the school. The people in charge aren't supposed to do that and they knew it was wrong in this case from the start.
Last, the school did have a prom. Majority of the kids in the school attended the real prom. The girl and a few others were sent to a decoy prom so that they would not be in attendance of the real prom. This shows are much farther the school went to discriminate against her and only shows, to me anyway, why they should have been punished even more. They payed her $35k and made a promise not to do it again. I don't even remember reading anything about the school officials losing their jobs.
You really think ****-punts and sackings are the solutions to problems?
The thing with fining the school is that don't the students suffer more than anything when the school doesn't have money to send them places? Why should the whole school suffer because of one decision some administrators made?
The fact that we equate money with revenge is pretty sad. I don't care if there is no other way to "punish" wrongdoers. Unless that person caused obvious damage to you or your things, there should be no reparations.
3devious
Android Expert
The best thing for the students is to put them in a school where they won't be taught to marginalize people for no reason. The whole school already suffers due to the blatant failure of its leadership and student body to act at all rational. I could care less about that school. That whole town should be left to rot.
The administrators, the students attending the "real prom" and their parents: Let them all suffer the conswquences. They should have thought of that before they did what they did. If the school can't take Bratleigh to the art museum, maybe someone can explain to her that her parents enrolled her into a hate filled institution that should have all of its funding cut until a better way of doing business is found by them.
It isn't revenge, it's justice. If your town conspires against you, please post about it here so that you can be told to get over it and that they're just going to get away with it.
Violence isn't the solution to problems, but sucking it up and letting abusers go unchecked is going to cause worse violence at some point. Sure, it's sad that people are motivated to do the right thing and punished effectively by monetary outcomes. That is the way things are and materials are increasingly effective incentives to encourage behavior that you want and more effective as deterrents for behavior you don't want.