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May be leaving Android

Psychotron, I feel ya and hey to be honest it's not much we can do about the saturation of the market until the manufacturers and carriers come to their senses. I just think it's cool to be able to be on my notebook in a Windows 7 environment with ADB running and my VMWare running Ubuntu all at the same time and to be able to switch between at an instant.
 
You do realize by choosing an Android phone you are becoming dependent on Googles wisdom right? They build and run the OS your phone is running...you have a well respected dev here in this thread and others as well admitting that writing for Android is becoming more of a problem. What will you do if Google finally takes control and starts implementing strict guidelines? Will that be too controlling for you?

You are wrong, it is open source that's why we have Sence, Touch-wiz and moto-blur. Not all developers have a problem with android, if that was the case over 400,000 apps would not exist. You are the same individual that claim the the kindle wasn't Android(and it is). Freedom of choice is what Android brings. Apple provides none of this and and thats fine, it is on individual if that is what he or she wants.
 
Android phones are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you are going to get.

I am a victum of this fragmentation in the Android ecosystem. My LG Shine plus runs 2.1. LG Came out with a 2.3 update which screwed up a lot of phones. The update has been pulled and I got a 2.1 phone on warranty exchange. It has been about 4 months. I believe LG has given up on updating this phone.

Under 2.1, I still have the green version of the Market. When I temporarily had 2.3, I had the newer black version. Google has changed to Play, but I still have the old green Market on my phone. This inconsistency amongst the Android products is frustrating.

If you like Android, buy the most expensive top model and at least you increase the chance the your phone may be supported in the future. But that is not guaranteed. Also it does not inspire confidence whwn I read the reviews of my favourite apps and see comments like "latest update will not work on my Nexus (or Galaxy II, etc.). Please fix".

BTW for some reason, posting on Android forum with my Androidphone has always been glitchy and laggy. It is ironic. I do not have this problem withother websites.
 
Also it does not inspire confidence whwn I read the reviews of my favourite apps and see comments like "latest update will not work on my Nexus (or Galaxy II, etc.). Please fix".

Yes, this is a prime example of why all of the varieties of Android are becoming a bad thing. Ardchoille said himself that some things he would write would work on some Android devices but not others. There have been plenty of reports the last few months about how fed up Android devs are getting with this fragmentation, and so are users. Is Google listening?
 
This is just my experience, I had the I phone 4 for 2 years and just upgraded to the galaxy s2 and I would never go back to IOS, and not to mention the progress that android has made in the past couple years says a lot. I think we will see android take over the market as far as operating systems go.
 
Android phones are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you are going to get.

I am a victum of this fragmentation in the Android ecosystem. My LG Shine plus runs 2.1. LG Came out with a 2.3 update which screwed up a lot of phones. The update has been pulled and I got a 2.1 phone on warranty exchange. It has been about 4 months. I believe LG has given up on updating this phone.

Under 2.1, I still have the green version of the Market. When I temporarily had 2.3, I had the newer black version. Google has changed to Play, but I still have the old green Market on my phone. This inconsistency amongst the Android products is frustrating.

If you like Android, buy the most expensive top model and at least you increase the chance the your phone may be supported in the future. But that is not guaranteed. Also it does not inspire confidence whwn I read the reviews of my favourite apps and see comments like "latest update will not work on my Nexus (or Galaxy II, etc.). Please fix".

BTW for some reason, posting on Android forum with my Androidphone has always been glitchy and laggy. It is ironic. I do not have this problem withother websites.

Not knowing how to update the market(google play) on your phone isn't fragmentation. I am positive someone on this forum could have help you with that. The reviews on the market are sometimes not the best to go by. I have seen incidents where it clearly states certain phones or os version is not supported and folks will leave a negative comment when their device is not supported. If you are shopping in the market, it is up to you to thoroughly make sure you read the information that's support your device.
 
Open source doesn't guarantee updates.
I was a member of tmobile forums and used the Motorola Cliq XT. Motorola promised us updates to the next version of Android. And they kept promising. Meanwhile we were seeing apps disappear from the market as developers dropped support for older versions of Android. Contrary to what some folks believe, apps don't stay in the market indefinitely. Motorola finally came back and told us that blur, their skin overlay, was too difficult and time consuming to implement as an OTA in the next Android revision. So. It was confirmed that we weren't getting any more updates on a phone that was just a few months old. And, as devs dropped support for older Android versions, the market would eventually appear empty.

Open source doesn't always equate to the best available.

Which brings me to another gripe, manufacturers/carriers should be required to support devices for the entirety of all contacts signed.
 
That horror story about your Motorola was addressed last year. Google called for update support for phones for 18 months after launch.

Can't really expect to buy a phone on the day that they announce that it's at end-of-life and expect it to be technology-capable for two more years of upgrades.

Hence, 18 months from launch, meaning, first customers delivery.

PS - posting from my phone using Boat Browser ftw. Not glitchy, not laggy at all.
 
That horror story about your Motorola was addressed last year. Google called for update support for phones for 18 months after launch.

Can't really expect to buy a phone on the day that they announce that it's at end-of-life and expect it to be technology-capable for two more years of upgrades.

Hence, 18 months from launch, meaning, first customers delivery.

PS - posting from my phone using Boat Browser ftw. Not glitchy, not laggy at all.

Kudos to Google, but I still feel that carriers shouldn't be allowed to require a contact for devices that are already EOL, or that will go EOL during the contract, yet they continue to do so. Not all customers do in-depth research before signing a contact and some don't even know what
 
^ 100% agree

Carriers do a lot wrong. :(

Google is at least trying to influence things in the proper direction for support and app uniformity/compatibility.

It's more, or at least different, work when you provide the OS but others provide the hardware and still others specify platform changes before they'll sell it for their network.
 
^ 100% agree

Carriers do a lot wrong. :(

Google is at least trying to influence things in the proper direction for support and app uniformity/compatibility.

It's more, or at least different, work when you provide the OS but others provide the hardware and still others specify platform changes before they'll sell it for their network.

Very good points, seriously that last sentence hit the nail on the head. Perhaps Google needs to kick some cooks out of the kitchen and redistribute the load.
 
Does anyone know how to contact Google's Android dev team directly? I bet if they read this thread they could walk away with something that would benefit Android.
 
The only thing I've seen before is their support forums but agree they should have a way for customer feedback
 
Very good points, seriously that last sentence hit the nail on the head. Perhaps Google needs to kick some cooks out of the kitchen and redistribute the load.

The next 12 to 15 months will prove interesting.

We're just beginning to see the differences between Schmidt and Page running Google, and we will see what we will see about Google-Motorola.

Google is counting on the natural cost lowering of capability in silicon to translate budget phones of tomorrow into equivalent power of high end phones today.

If true, the separation of handset classes would change considerably and could significantly reduce upgrade and support issues from the OS and app perspective.

And the Chinese trying to hold up that Google Motorola merger on anti-competitive grounds? Make no mistake - there was a whole tiff with our government over Huawei, and the Chinese did not forget. Someone is angling for something.

This will be an interesting year for Android maturation on many, many levels, in my opinion.

PS - I think that it's pretty hard to contact Microsoft's or Apple dev teams as well as Google. Can't blame them. The majority mail would be spam and trolling, followed by lost lambs asking the wrong group questions, followed by people with a week's experience ready to explain their products to them, followed by those who mean well but are wrong, followed - finally - by someone that the dev team would love to chat with.

Needle in a haystack problem, right there.
 
This is one of the reasons I stopped developing for Android. I'd write an app that worked on my phone. A friend wanted a copy but it wouldn't work on her phone so I had to go and make changes in the code. I finally got tired and quit.

Mind me asking, have you ever developed for Windows on PCs?

Here's what I'd like to see:
* Google tells carriers, no more pre installed apps, you will use Android as is
* Google redesigns Android so that every aspect is themeable - from buttons to notification bars - via .png files without needing root
* Google bans manufacturer skins
* Updates come directly from Google
* Google sets strict standards for hardware


I feel that would alleviate a lot of the fragmentation and frustration. It would also take a ton of work off the manufacturers.

Isn't that exactly what the Nexus phones are supposed to be. Of course anything that isn't Nexus, are completely beyond Google's control.
 
PS - I think that it's pretty hard to contact Microsoft's.. dev teams..

I heard that it was a piece of cake if you're in the parking lot (take your pick which lot) at shift time with a few fat rails of cocaine and a box of the right cigars.


:D
 
Here's what I'd like to see:
* Google tells carriers, no more pre installed apps, you will use Android as is
* Google redesigns Android so that every aspect is themeable - from buttons to notification bars - via .png files without needing root
* Google bans manufacturer skins
* Updates come directly from Google
* Google sets strict standards for hardware

Once all that is implemented you are left with Apple's model and the reason people go with Android is to get something different. I agree 100% with you that something needs to be done regarding updates etc....but when you start to talk about that you go against a lot of what android stands for.

Manufactures develop low-mid-high range phones because there is a market out there for them. My co-worker who is older stepped into the smartphone world because he was able to get an Android phone for under $100. He likes it. I asked him why he didn't go for anything else and it was because of price, he couldn't see spending a lot of money on a phone, pure and simple.

Having said that you can't expect low end phones to receive updates like there high end brothers. Some phones can't handle the software. It's the nature of the beast.

I would really like to see the big manufactures (Moto, HTC, LG, Samsung) come out with one stellar phone per year. It would be awesome if they slowed the technology race to allow customers to enjoy there phones. But once again this presents a very big problem. If HTC says they are only putting out one high quality phone a year then what stops Samsung from coming out with something 10x better a few months later. That high end HTC phone now looks old and HTC is left sitting in the dust. It's, once again, the nature of the beast.

Take away the skins and you are pretty much left with hardware. If all the manufactures just used plain android then you would be left with a bunch of phones similar spec with only looks as a differentiation. There is only so much you can do with that, Eventually all the phones would look the same. Skins allow the manufacture to differentiate between each other. Once again it's the nature of the beast.

Last, Apple did bloatware correctly, the simple told At&t we will not have any, end of story, you don't like it then we will bring the iPhone somewhere else. they stood there ground and the Apple customers really benefited from this. The Android manufactures cared less and what we are left with is a bunch of garbage on our phone that can't be uninstalled. It's frustrating. When I told the same co-worker about using his phone for navigation he said "there is no way I am paying for that!", confused I looked at his phone and he was trying to use At&t's navigation software which cost $9.99/mo. Mean while google navigate was a few icons under it!

Ian, like I said on Google +, keep an open mind, a lot can happen from now until the release of the next iPhone. Maybe for the better, maybe for the worse. Android is it's own worst enemy. Being "open" creates a lot of problems as discussed but closing off the system destroys the eco-system they are trying to create.

I just installed CM9 on my Touchpad and it really made me excited about Android again. I feel that it brings a new freshness that I was missing. But what tickles my fancy certainly doesn't have to tickle yours. Losing you would suck for this community but it would also be a good thing. An active consumer is the best consumer. By leaving Android you tell them that they are doing something wrong and that will hopefully encourage change. Nothing ever changes if you just sit on the internet and complain, money talks, loss of customers talks.

If you read any part of this thread let it be: Fanboys do more harm then good and money talks

Sorry for the long post....
 
Mind me asking, have you ever developed for Windows on PCs?



Isn't that exactly what the Nexus phones are supposed to be. Of course anything that isn't Nexus, are completely beyond Google's control.

I wrote software in C++ and Visual Basic back when I was on Window 98 but I haven't touched a Windows system since 2001. I've been on Linux since then and I still write my own software but mainly in C/C++, Perl and Python these days.

My main reasoning behind the need to change the android theme mechanism is so that the average user can change things like the notification bar or menu icons with their own .png files that they create. The notification bar and menu icons are usually buried in frameworks-res.apk or SystemUI.apk. Even if the common user learns how to change the images, compile .9 pngs, sign the apk's and flash them in recovery, they still can't take that frameworks-res.apk or SystemUI.apk and flash them on the ROM of their choosing. I've even been required to create a completely different frameworks-res.apk from one revision of a ROM to the next revision of the same ROM. I've been creating themes since Cupcake and it's always been a huge undertaking.

I feel that most aspects of the UI should be as easily changeable as is the wallpaper. This alone would keep me on android. The main reason I'm leaving is because I'm tired of all the work it takes just to change the UI to a point where it isn't painful for me to stare at. Not everyone has the same ideas about what makes a good user interface. Maybe I'm just getting old and my will to tinker is dwindling.
 
Not knowing how to update the market(google play) on your phone isn't fragmentation. I am positive someone on this forum could have help you with that. The reviews on the market are sometimes not the best to go by. I have seen incidents where it clearly states certain phones or os version is not supported and folks will leave a negative comment when their device is not supported. If you are shopping in the market, it is up to you to thoroughly make sure you read the information that's support your device.

If there is a way to update the Market or Google Play, please let me know. As an Android 2.1 user I am still getting the old green version of the Market. THIs leads me to to believe that different OS versions get different versions of the MArket, ergo fragmentation.

Which phone company puts out out a list of apps that do not work with their phone? With Android, this a trial or error process. Before buying a new Android phone, is every user expected to post "I'm thinking about buying a [insert new model phone], will [insert name of your favorite app] work on this phone?
 
I wrote software in C++ and Visual Basic back when I was on Window 98 but I haven't touch a Windows system since 2001. I've been on Linux since then and I still write my own software but mainly in C/C++, Perl and Python these days.

My main reasoning behind the need to change the android theme mechanism is so that the average user can change things like the notification bar or menu icons with their own .png files that they create. The notification bar and menu icons are usually buried in frameworks-res.apk or SystemUI.apk. Even if the common user learns how to change the images, compile .9 pngs, sign the apk's and flash them (requires root and recovery), they still can't take that frameworks-res.apk or SystemUI.apk and flash them on the ROM of their choosing. I've even been required to create a completely different frameworks-res.apk from one revision of a ROM to the next.

I feel that most aspects of the UI should be as easily changeable as is the wallpaper. This alone would keep me on android. The main reason I'm leaving is because I'm tired of all the work it takes just to change the UI to a point where it isn't painful for me to stare at. Not everyone has the same ideas about what makes a good user interface. Maybe I'm just getting old and my will to tinker is dwindling.

While it doesn't address your main concerns of: 1) being easily customizable 2) not needing root, have you tried Metamorph?

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=stericson.xda.metamorph

How to MetaMorph/Theme - xda-developers

It's fairly straightforward to change icons like that. But NANDroids should be made and care should be taken, because it's easy for things to go wrong. So yeah, not as easy as changing the wallpaper (which I agree, it should be that easy to slap in some pngs to change icons), but it is possible to quickly assimilate icons into a new ROM, if a rooted user truly wishes to do it.
 
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