Meego Discussion (From HTC One X thread)

[Crashdamage]

Clearly no amount of facts will sway A.Nonynimus from his position that Meego had no support so let's move on...

To me the biggest thing Meego had going for it wasn't even it's sheer power, though certainly that was considerable. No, it was that Meego would unify mobile and desktop like no other OS before or, so far at least, since. Unification of phone/tablet/desktop is quickly becoming the Next Big Thing. Google is doing it with ICS/Chrome, M$ is doing it with Win8/WinPhone and Apple with iOS/OSX Mountain Lion.

But all those are basically efforts to unify existing different OSs intended for particular hardware and uses - phone, tablet, desktop. Meego was about taking a single mature OS - Linux, and a full mobile Linux distro, not just the kernel - and expanding and adapting it to various hardware and uses.

That is where Meego had a huge advantage over the competition and why M$ would do whatever it took to snuff it out. It was ahead of it's time. If Nokia had followed through on what was actually a solid plan, Meego was a winning hand. Sadly, Nokia fell behind on development, then M$ made it rain money. So we as consumers lost out on the chance to have a killer OS on our devices.

 

[chanchan05]

They are losing market share overseas to iOS and Android though. As I said, best case scenario for Meego is that it would be the next Symbian. It would be a smart phone OS that is used by everyone outside of the US.

i forgot to quote this. Actually, that's not so bad since the US only comprises what, 25-30% of the entire world's market? If Nokia gets like 50% of the entire world market, why should it care about the US Market.


@CrashDamage - Seems to be he just feels the US Market is THAT important to Nokia's decision, when in fact Nokia has ignored the US for almost a decade and it became by far the biggest manufacturer in the world.

The great thing about MeeGo was the fact that it was superior to all other OS in a lot of ways, that it cab even run smoother than iOS on inferior hardware. That alone makes it stand out, even without considering its capabilities.

 

[A.Nonymous]

i forgot to quote this. Actually, that's not so bad since the US only comprises what, 25-30% of the entire world's market? If Nokia gets like 50% of the entire world market, why should it care about the US Market.


@CrashDamage - Seems to be he just feels the US Market is THAT important to Nokia's decision, when in fact Nokia has ignored the US for almost a decade and it became by far the biggest manufacturer in the world.

The great thing about MeeGo was the fact that it was superior to all other OS in a lot of ways, that it cab even run smoother than iOS on inferior hardware. That alone makes it stand out, even without considering its capabilities.

The big money is in the US market. Regardless of this, Nokia wants/wanted to be in the US market. The fact that they signed the deal with MS proves they wanted in on the US market. They were never going to get there with Meego. When Meego got canned, the collective US market said, "Meh." WebOS got more attention when it died.

 

[mikedt]

The big money is in the US market.

Is that because of a greedy price-fixing carrier cartel though? AT&T, Verizon, Sprint. I regularly read of people spending over $100 USD a month for service in the US, just think WTH!! Don't you get clobbered for things like $40 a month just for data service, then another $20 on top for tethering in the US?

I'm paying something like 50 RMB (about $5 USD) a month for service here. Even when I was in the UK, I would only be paying equivalent of $15-25 USD a month.

 

[Crashdamage]

The big money is in the US market.

Keep trying to convince yourself. There is far more money outside the U.S.

Regardless of this, Nokia wants/wanted to be in the US market.

Well, yeah. It IS a big market. But Nokia was doing very, very well ignoring it.

The fact that they signed the deal with MS proves they wanted in on the US market.

Well, bottomless billions in support and a foot in the door of a major market would sway a lot of boardrooms. But the fact that M$ was willing to stage a corporate coup and spend unknown billions to do it actually proves:
a. How desperately they wanted to stop Meego.
b. How badly they wanted into markets outside the U.S. that Nokia is so strong in.
c. How desperate M$ is to make WP7 a significant player in ANY markets.

They were never going to get there with Meego.

I've already explained why they very possibly could earlier in this thread.

When Meego got canned, the collective US market said, "Meh." WebOS got more attention when it died.

Only because WebOS had actually been on the market a while, actually available in stores, reviews written etc. and so more in the public's awareness. Meego was snuffed by M$ before it got that far. It says nothing much about how good Meego could've been or it's ultimate chances for success.

 

[mikedt]

Keep trying to convince yourself. There is far more money outside the U.S.

I tend to agree, I'm in China and I'm seeing a lot of high-end phones now, especially in the last year or so, iPhones, Samsung Galaxys, HTCs, etc. Although I think most are only paying relatively small amounts for carrier service, compared to the US. China Mobile is the world's largest carrier, far bigger than Verizon or AT&T.

BTW I'm sure the world's biggest and most lucrative luxury market now is China, not the US. That's where the money is.

 

[Dark Jedi]

I keep hearing that Nokia don't need the US market. Then you say Nokia teams up with ms to get in to the us market. You say Nokia don't need the money from us sales but they take a load of money from ms to put their os on their phones.

You said it Nokia lost 10% of the world cellphone market. That shows they are losing their hold on the world market because of ios and android phones becoming popular and its slowly spreading world wide.

Just because you liked this meego os doesn't mean it was the best. If it was the best Nokia would of kept it. If Nokia didn't need money they wouldn't have got in bed with ms and took their money. Nokia fears apple and Google and needs a brand that will catch peoples eye. What sounds better Nokia phone powered by meego? Or Nokia phone powered by Microsoft?

 

[Dark Jedi]

BTW I'm sure the world's biggest and most lucrative luxury market now is China, not the US. That's where the money is.

Still what over 80% of the population lives below poverty? I can see how china has money

 

[Crashdamage]

I keep hearing that Nokia don't need the US market. Then you say Nokia teams up with ms to get in to the us market.

So? Just because Nokia didn't really need the US market doesn't mean they didn't want it. Any company is always looking to grow and make more money.

You say Nokia don't need the money from us sales but they take a load of money from ms to put their os on their phones.

If you were running Nokia, would you turn down shiploads of M$ cash?

You said it Nokia lost 10% of the world cellphone market. That shows they are losing their hold on the world market because of ios and android phones becoming popular and its slowly spreading world wide.

More because they stuck with Symbian way too long, then failed to complete development of Maemo/Meego in time for it to be a viable replacement.

Just because you liked this meego os doesn't mean it was the best. If it was the best Nokia would of kept it. If Nokia didn't need money they wouldn't have got in bed with ms and took their money.

It absolutely could've been the best mobile/desktop OS! Nokia blew it off for reasons I've covered earlier in this thread.

Nokia fears apple and Google and needs a brand that will catch peoples eye. What sounds better Nokia phone powered by meego? Or Nokia phone powered by Microsoft?

Well, WP7 certainly isn't catching many eyes. And I don't care what sounds better. I care about what is better.

 

[Crashdamage]

Still what over 80% of the population lives below poverty? I can see how china has money

Think. If as you say only 20% of China has money, that would still be a market roughly twice the size of the U.S. market.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Is that because of a greedy price-fixing carrier cartel though? AT&T, Verizon, Sprint. I regularly read of people spending over $100 USD a month for service in the US, just think WTH!! Don't you get clobbered for things like $40 a month just for data service, then another $20 on top for tethering in the US?

I'm paying something like 50 RMB (about $5 USD) a month for service here. Even when I was in the UK, I would only be paying equivalent of $15-25 USD a month.

I think spending in the ballpark of $90-100 a month on cell service is normal here if you've got unlimited talk and unlimited data

Also, I still haven't seen a single reason why MS would fear Meego. Why would they fear an OS that has no carrier support and no OEM support. Again, Intel is not a force in the mobile market. Samsung was already in bed with Android and was only looking at Meego the same way HTC is using WP7. They're hedging their bets, but putting most of their effort on Android. Nokia abandoned Meego because it wasn't going anywhere at all. That's the long and short of it. It had no momentum and there was no way it was going to compete with Android, iOS or WP7.

 

[Crashdamage]

I still haven't seen a single reason why MS would fear Meego. Why would they fear an OS that has no carrier support and no OEM support. Again, Intel is not a force in the mobile market.

I've given several reasons, you just refuse to believe them. Mainly, because it could put a real, full-stack open-source, root-enabled fully functional Linux in your pocket. Let that soak in. Surely you must realize what that really means!

Why would anyone fear Android just before the G1 was announced? Why didn't they afterwards? Turns out they should have. M$ wasn't going to make the same mistake again with Meego. It scared the hell out of Ballmer. M$ realized Meego could take a mobile OS to a new level of functionality and versatility.

Intel is not a force YET...

 

[Dark Jedi]

Of course it scared the hell out of Ballmer. Nokia is the last phone maker MS has to try and get in to the market full steam and not have a few phones with many different makers. MS could care less of what meego can do. THey see a phone manufacturer that isnt in bed with android. They dont want them to go android. So thats why MS went with nokia.

 

[A.Nonymous]

I've given several reasons, you just refuse to believe them. Mainly, because it could put a real, full-stack open-source, root-enabled fully functional Linux in your pocket. Let that soak in. Surely you must realize what that really means!

Why would anyone fear Android just before the G1 was announced? Why didn't they afterwards? Turns out they should have. M$ wasn't going to make the same mistake again with Meego. It scared the hell out of Ballmer. M$ realized Meego could take a mobile OS to a new level of functionality and versatility.

Intel is not a force YET...

Nobody cares about a a "real, full-stack open-source, root-enabled fully functional Linux in your pocket". No one. There is not a groundswell of consumer support looking for that. No one is pissed that Android is not rooted. The vast majority of consumers never bother to jailbreak their iPhones. No one at all cares. They also have no clue that Android is based on Linux, nor do they care at all. There is not a great mass of people yearning for a true, full stack, mobile version of Linux with root access. No one in the vast majority of consumers care at all.

MS needed an OEM that would heavily back WP7. Nokia was the only OEM out there that had not gone all in with Android. Nokia has a smartphone OS on their hands that was dieing (Symbian) and another OS on their hands that was a non-starter (Meego) and they were losing money. MS had an OS on their hands that none of the other OEMs were excited about as Android was working out fine for them thank you very much. It was a perfect match. I'll put it this way. If Nokia had turned MS down, MS would've gone to another OEM (probably HTC since they've been the least successful in the Android market so far) and tossed more money at them than they did at Nokia. WP7 would still be where it is in the market today and Meego would still be dead.

If Ballmer was sitting around terrified that Meego was going to become the next iOS or Android, then he is far crazier than I've ever given him credit for.

 

[mikedt]

I think spending in the ballpark of $90-100 a month on cell service is normal here if you've got unlimited talk and unlimited data

Now is that...

"unlimited"

or
"unlimited *"


* subject to our fair usage policy.
* subject to bandwidth throttling if you use too much.
* thou shalt not tether.
* we reserve the right to limit your data and calls if we just don't like you.
* any other reason we can think of to limit you
* If 3GB is exceeded, an additional 1 GB is automatically provided at a rate of $10 for each additional 1 GB (AT&T "unlimited" data package)

 

[A.Nonymous]

Now is that...

"unlimited"

or
"unlimited *"


* subject to our fair usage policy.
* subject to bandwidth throttling if you use too much.
* thou shalt not tether.
* we reserve the right to limit your data and calls if we just don't like you.
* any other reason we can think of to limit you
* If 3GB is exceeded, an additional 1 GB is automatically provided at a rate of $10 for each additional 1 GB (AT&T "unlimited" data package)

Any or all of those terms might apply.

 

[Crashdamage]

Nobody cares about a a "real, full-stack open-source, root-enabled fully functional Linux in your pocket". No one.

Linux developers. Millions of Linux users. Millions more potential users who don't much care about the name of the OS, they just want the best and/or cheapest. Meego could've the best and the cheapest OS and run well on high-end or low-end hardware.

There is not a groundswell of consumer support looking for that.

You're not making sense. As I pointed out earlier, consumers wern't asking for Android either. Can't be demand before there is awareness.

No one is pissed that Android is not rooted. The vast majority of consumers never bother to jailbreak their iPhones. No one at all cares.

Some are pissed, but you're right most don't care. But root access was not the big deal, just another advantage.

Meego was about what other OS lack in power, flexibility and functionality. Only Maemo and WebOS have come anywhere near what Meego could have been. Android, iOS and WP7 are severely limited in comparison and more demanding of hardware.

With all the success Samsung is having with Android, why do you think they just announced they're doubling up on Bada OS development? I don't hear comsumers demanding Bada devices. So why is Samsung bothering?

 

[A.Nonymous]

Linux developers. Millions of Linux users. Millions more potential users who don't much care about the name of the OS, they just want the best and/or cheapest. Meego could've the best and the cheapest OS and run well on high-end or low-end hardware.

I'm sorry, but there are not millions of people dieing to use pure Linux on a handset. Linux is nothing more than a niche OS on the desktop. With no carrier support and Nokia the only OEM pushing it, it was not going anywhere. It had no support from any company that mattered and there was little or no room for it in the marketplace. Like I said, when it got killed, there was a collective "meh" heard from consumers everywhere.

You're not making sense. As I pointed out earlier, consumers wern't asking for Android either. Can't be demand before there is awareness.

Android came out with backing from Google (way bigger company in the US than Nokia) and there was room in the market for an alternative to iOS. iOS was limited to one device on one carrier. There was lots of room in the market for Android, Google jumped in bed with the carriers in very little time and the rest is history. Meego would've hit the market middle of last year. It would've been competing with Android and iOS (both of which were steamrolling WinMo and BB) and would've come into a market that had no room for it and with little to no support to boot.

When Android came out, there was pent up demand for a good smart phone that wasn't on ATT and wasn't an iPhone. Nokia would've had to convince consumers that they didn't want an iPhone (now on ATT, Sprint and VZW) and they didn't want an Android phone (now on any carrier you care to name) but instead wanted Meego. The argument that it's full stack Linux is not going to carry any weight with consumers. Meego was a dead duck. At best, it's another Symbian like I said before.

Some are pissed, but you're right most don't care. But root access was not the big deal, just another advantage.

Meego was about what other OS lack in power, flexibility and functionality. Only Maemo and WebOS have come anywhere near what Meego could have been. Android, iOS and WP7 are severely limited in comparison and more demanding of hardware.

I don't necessarily disagree with you about Android, iOS and WP7. But I contend that it is completely irrelevant. WebOS devices came out and didn't sell at all. This despite the fact that WebOS is a far, far better OS than Android or iOS IMO. It doesn't matter what the OS has to offer if there is no carrier support or OEM support behind it. Meego essentially had one OEM backing it (Nokia) and no carriers at all. Like, I said, it was dead. Nokia knew that they would make far more money off WP7 even if it flopped (which it still might) than they ever would off of Meego even if it succeeded wildly.

With all the success Samsung is having with Android, why do you think they just announced they're doubling up on Bada OS development? I don't hear comsumers demanding Bada devices. So why is Samsung bothering?

They are hedging their bets just like anyone else. Same reason HTC is making WP7 phones.

 

[chanchan05]

I think spending in the ballpark of $90-100 a month on cell service is normal here if you've got unlimited talk and unlimited data

I have full unlimited data, unlimited voice, unlimited text. No asterisk data as well. My PC reads that I have tethered almost 1TB of data to it in terms of uploads, streams, surfings, downloads over the past year. I download movies and TV series from the US (they aren't available where I am), and can go over 2GB a day watching various streams and videos. Heck there was a time I had to upload a 2GB lecture video through my phone's hotspot feature. My carrier representative told me straight to my face that they don't care if you manage to download 1TB in an hour.

All for less than $50 a month contract. Your carriers over there are shitting on you.

Also, I still haven't seen a single reason why MS would fear Meego. Why would they fear an OS that has no carrier support and no OEM support. Again, Intel is not a force in the mobile market. Samsung was already in bed with Android and was only looking at Meego the same way HTC is using WP7. They're hedging their bets, but putting most of their effort on Android. Nokia abandoned Meego because it wasn't going anywhere at all. That's the long and short of it. It had no momentum and there was no way it was going to compete with Android, iOS or WP7.

One reason I could see with MS fearing MeeGo is, apart from Nokia having full backing on it, if it rolls out, MS has nowhere to turn to with its OS. HTC and Samsung are making WP7 phones sure, but not at a point where they will market it aggressively. MS needed to kill MeeGo to get Nokia.

Outside the US, Nokia's name still holds a certain respect in making tough reliable phones, even smartphones. In countries outside Europe and NA, people mostly consider brand names first before OS.

MS needed an OEM that would heavily back WP7. Nokia was the only OEM out there that had not gone all in with Android. Nokia has a smartphone OS on their hands that was dieing (Symbian) and another OS on their hands that was a non-starter (Meego) and they were losing money. MS had an OS on their hands that none of the other OEMs were excited about as Android was working out fine for them thank you very much. It was a perfect match. I'll put it this way. If Nokia had turned MS down, MS would've gone to another OEM (probably HTC since they've been the least successful in the Android market so far) and tossed more money at them than they did at Nokia. WP7 would still be where it is in the market today and Meego would still be dead.

If Ballmer was sitting around terrified that Meego was going to become the next iOS or Android, then he is far crazier than I've ever given him credit for.

Inside info on Nokia: They only started listening to MS when Elop became president. They were hell bent on going Meego (which they haven't totally abandoned, as they are now developing Meltemi, a MeeGo based platform). Elop is an MS stockholder who bought into Nokia fairly recently as far as I can tell.

Nokia spent billions on developing an ecosystem that could go up against Google. It also had a cloud service which trumped Dropbox/Sugarsync/iCloud/Google in offerings called Ovi Connect. I was one of the beta testers. Ovi was slowly shaping out to be a great service, and MeeGo was the light at the end of the tunnel. The stockholders weren't really too happy though since stocks were dropping due to the cost of transition.

Enter Elop the Trojan MS inserted into ailing Nokia, showering promises of bottomless MS money (if you got 80% of the world using your OS, of course you got money) and a full built existing ecosystem they could use without cost of maintaining their own. The next voting, they voted Elop and threw everything their predecessors built.

It was entirely out of money and greed, and not because of MeeGo being a dead duck that it was dropped.

And even so, with all the problems revolving around Android and the legal battles stemming out from devices running the OS and Google buying Motorola, Nokia is still developing MeeGo behind the backs of MS, and Samsung still running Bada, because they can see that like Symbian before, Android can die even after owning the Market. MeeGo is even more welcoming to developers as an OS than Android is.

Just take a look at the N9: its essentially SGS1 hardware, runs smoother than an SGS2, can run Symbian apps, and can run Android apps too (all you need is Alien Davlik installed). And it multitasks and runs as smooth as any dual core Android out there on weaker hardware. OS wise, MeeGo >> Android. All it needs is a push in the right direction.

 

[Crashdamage]

Well said chanchan05!

 

[mantsos]

If someone is interesting more from MeeGo software and coming Jolla phones welcome to discussion to Jolla | Forum It is just published new jolla and meego forum also address/url jollaforums.com work too.

If you dont know what is this new "Jolla" read more from here Ex-Nokia staff to build MeeGo-based smartphones | The Verge

sorry this little advertising on here where everyone is maybe android fans...

 

[Crashdamage]

Is it available in English?

 

[mantsos]

Is it available in English?

Yes. There is too "Discussion in english" categorie. And now the forum default language is english Have to littlebit more translation some finnish word to english

 

[Crashdamage]

Nice! Many thanks! Just registered and I'm member #6. I'll be keeping an eye on what happens. I just wish I could get the Jolla forum in Tapatalk. And buy a Jolla/Meego phone!

 

[mantsos]

Thank you too! Jollaforum.net is indeed new forum and that's why there is very quiet... but i try to do my best and get more peoples here So maybe some day this my forum could be a big jolla and meego discussion forum

E: "I just wish I could get the Jolla forum in Tapatalk"

This is coming soon!