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Men's Rights in Terms of Child Support and Abortion

lordofthereef

Android Expert
This is an issue I have had for a long while. A woman finds out she is pregnant. Currently, she has the right to choose an abortion. She also has the right to carry the baby to term and give it up for an adoption.

If the father wants an abortion, too bad. If the mother wants to keep the baby, the father is hit with child support. AFAIK there is no "opt out" period (which I would compare to adoption).

This may be a state by state basis, but I know this is how it works in CA and in IA, where I currently reside.

Thoughts?
 
Please note, I am not trying to argue pro or con abortion, just point out that the mother chooses while the father does not.
 
This is an issue I have had for a long while. A woman finds out she is pregnant. Currently, she has the right to choose an abortion. She also has the right to carry the baby to term and give it up for an adoption.

If the father wants an abortion, too bad. If the mother wants to keep the baby, the father is hit with child support. AFAIK there is no "opt out" period (which I would compare to adoption).
You forgot to include the other option you mentioned. If the mother chooses to give it up for adoption, the father can intervene and take custody of the child.
 
You forgot to include the other option you mentioned. If the mother chooses to give it up for adoption, the father can intervene and take custody of the child.

My point was that, as a man, if I want out, I have no options, if the wife of my child decides to keep the kid.
 
Abortion is murder, imo. It's also unfair. If two people are dumb enough to have unprotected sex, why should only the women be able to weild all that power over the man for the next 18 years.
 
Abortion is murder, imo. It's also unfair. If two people are dumb enough to have unprotected sex, why should only the women be able to weild all that power over the man for the next 18 years.
Again, that is not what this discussion is about. It is mainly about a man having to deal with child support if the woman he impregnates wants to keep the baby. Meanwhile, the woman has options to not have to deal with the kid at all if she so chooses.
 
Only two problems.

1.)Equal risk. When a woman becomes pregnant the risks to her is very clear. But where is the risk to the men? Does the men get something growing inside of them? Do the men have the medical problems associated with pregnancy? When a man and a woman have sex, the woman has 100% of the risk every time she has sex. With out child support there is zero risk to the male. When you are trying to figure out how to divide up responsibility, you need to apply equal risk with the law. When you decide that child support is a choice, you are saying that the risk to the female becomes 200% and the risk to the male become zero. Even if the female never had a choice about having sex, she would still have 200% of the risk.


2.) Once the egg is fertilized, it is 100% dependent on the mother. With out the mother there is zero chance of survival. The decision of not allowing the egg to continue to survive is 100% of to the mother, the doctor, and her support network. 100% of all abortions happen for only one reason, the lack of a support network. If the father wants to stop the abortion, there is only two options, provide a support network for the mother, or take the fertilized egg out of the mother and find a different host.

When a woman gets pregnant, she has no choice in her life on what is going to happen (with out laws). All she can do is direct the outcome to a better end for her. When a guy gets pregnant, he has 100% control over his life from that point on (with out laws). Laws are written so the parties in all endeavors shares equal risk from the outcome. When one party has "skin" in the event, the other has to offer equal "skin".
 
Again, that is not what this discussion is about. It is mainly about a man having to deal with child support if the woman he impregnates wants to keep the baby. Meanwhile, the woman has options to not have to deal with the kid at all if she so chooses.

What kind of power do you think I'm talking when I say she has power she can weild over the man for 18 years?

Only two problems.

1.)Equal risk. When a woman becomes pregnant the risks to her is very clear. But where is the risk to the men? Does the men get something growing inside of them? Do the men have the medical problems associated with pregnancy? When a man and a woman have sex, the woman has 100% of the risk every time she has sex. With out child support there is zero risk to the male. When you are trying to figure out how to divide up responsibility, you need to apply equal risk with the law. When you decide that child support is a choice, you are saying that the risk to the female becomes 200% and the risk to the male become zero. Even if the female never had a choice about having sex, she would still have 200% of the risk.


2.) Once the egg is fertilized, it is 100% dependent on the mother. With out the mother there is zero chance of survival. The decision of not allowing the egg to continue to survive is 100% of to the mother, the doctor, and her support network. 100% of all abortions happen for only one reason, the lack of a support network. If the father wants to stop the abortion, there is only two options, provide a support network for the mother, or take the fertilized egg out of the mother and find a different host.

When a woman gets pregnant, she has no choice in her life on what is going to happen (with out laws). All she can do is direct the outcome to a better end for her. When a guy gets pregnant, he has 100% control over his life from that point on (with out laws). Laws are written so the parties in all endeavors shares equal risk from the outcome. When one party has "skin" in the event, the other has to offer equal "skin".

Only two problems.

1.)Equal risk. When a woman becomes pregnant the risks to her is very clear. But where is the risk to the men? Does the men get something growing inside of them? Do the men have the medical problems associated with pregnancy? When a man and a woman have sex, the woman has 100% of the risk every time she has sex. With out child support there is zero risk to the male. When you are trying to figure out how to divide up responsibility, you need to apply equal risk with the law. When you decide that child support is a choice, you are saying that the risk to the female becomes 200% and the risk to the male become zero. Even if the female never had a choice about having sex, she would still have 200% of the risk.


2.) Once the egg is fertilized, it is 100% dependent on the mother. With out the mother there is zero chance of survival. The decision of not allowing the egg to continue to survive is 100% of to the mother, the doctor, and her support network. 100% of all abortions happen for only one reason, the lack of a support network. If the father wants to stop the abortion, there is only two options, provide a support network for the mother, or take the fertilized egg out of the mother and find a different host.

When a woman gets pregnant, she has no choice in her life on what is going to happen (with out laws). All she can do is direct the outcome to a better end for her. When a guy gets pregnant, he has 100% control over his life from that point on (with out laws). Laws are written so the parties in all endeavors shares equal risk from the outcome. When one party has "skin" in the event, the other has to offer equal "skin".

When a man gets pregnant? lolWUT?
 
When a guy gets pregnant, he has 100% control over his life from that point on (with out laws). Laws are written so the parties in all endeavors shares equal risk from the outcome. When one party has "skin" in the event, the other has to offer equal "skin".

I disagree. The guy can run, but he would be breaking the law at that point if he left knowing his child was growing inside a woman who wanted to keep it.
 
When a man gets pregnant? lolWUT?
I prefer to not place blame with terms like " when a man gets a woman pregnant, because consensual sex is just that, consensual, she got herself has pregnant as he got her pregnant. So instead of placing blame, it is better to refer to the pregnancy as an event that both share in. I really don't believe that a man impregnate a woman but they both become pregnant, she becomes physically and legally pregnant and he becomes legally pregnant. But once again, the woman assumes more risk then the male. I understand that you MUST place blame.

I disagree. The guy can run, but he would be breaking the law at that point if he left knowing his child was growing inside a woman who wanted to keep it.

I am sorry, what laws would he break, notice here I pointed out that with out laws?

roi said:
When a guy gets pregnant, he has 100% control over his life from that point on (with out laws).

Highlighted and bold.

With out current laws, there is zero risk the the male.
 
I am sorry, what laws would he break, notice here I pointed out that with out laws?
He is required to, at the very least, pay child support until that child reaches the age of 18. If he denies being the father of the child, the mother can get a court ordered DNA test. When that comes back positive, part of his paycheck goes to the mother every month for 18 years.
 
When a guy gets pregnant, he has 100% control over his life from that point on (with out laws).

He is required to, at the very least, pay child support until that child reaches the age of 18. If he denies being the father of the child, the mother can get a court ordered DNA test. When that comes back positive, part of his paycheck goes to the mother every month for 18 years.

Ok, one more time, read the above quote, focus on the part where I said "with out laws". Which means, if the current laws where not there, he would have zero risk. ALL of the laws you just stated are LAWS, in which my original quote pointed out does not exist.

But my point still stands, the laws are created to force equal risk out of the pregnancy.
 
Ok, one more time, read the above quote, focus on the part where I said "with out laws". Which means, if the current laws where not there, he would have zero risk. ALL of the laws you just stated are LAWS, in which my original quote pointed out does not exist.

But my point still stands, the laws are created to force equal risk out of the pregnancy.

I see where you are coming from. So the woman has health risks in carrying a baby to term, therefore the man should pay a percentage of his income until the child becomes an adult.

Ok, so I get how it is justified. I still find it BS, personally. First of all, that's saying that a richer man's child's mother is taking higher risk than a poor mans being that he is paying much more in child support than the poor man. If it is really a compensation for risk, it should be a flat value for all people, not an income percentage.
 
I see where you are coming from. So the woman has health risks in carrying a baby to term, therefore the man should pay a percentage of his income until the child becomes an adult.

Ok, so I get how it is justified. I still find it BS, personally. First of all, that's saying that a richer man's child's mother is taking higher risk than a poor mans being that he is paying much more in child support than the poor man. If it is really a compensation for risk, it should be a flat value for all people, not an income percentage.

No, this has nothing to do with the reasons of child support, just the risks of sex. There is 3 parts of the act of sex and pregnancy.

1.) the act.
2.) the results of the act
3.) the responsibility of the act.

To prevent one person entering into the agreement of the act with out risk, is not why we have child support laws. If you dont want children, dont have sex. If you want to have sex, the act of sex produces a child. The risk of the richer man vs poorer man ends here. If the richer man does not want to have a child, do not have to have sex. The risk to a richer man is greater at the act of sex, but not afterward.

The results of the act is 100% risk for the mother, regardless of wealth. There is zero effects to the male about the results of sex that ends up in pregnancy, from a pregnancy stand point. Until the child is born, there is zero results to the male.

The responsibility of the act is why we have child support. The child is going to happen. 100% of all abortions happen because the lack of a support network. In order to provide that support network and reduce the amount of abuse, abandoned, or aborted children. The male must add responsibility to the act. The law is meant to support the child after the act is done and the results happend, and make sure the support network is supplied to prevent abuse, abandoned, and aborted children.

All the risk in pregnancy is falls 100% of the two people that did the act, caused the pregnancy, and have to be 100% responsible for that act.

So when the state forces child support, they are forcing the male/female to take 100% responsibility for the act they committed.

If we take the child and pregnancy out of the equation and replace the act with any other state control activity, we can see the fault with your logic.

If two people wonder down the street and breaks every window on that street, are they responsible for that act?

1.) act of property damage.
2.) the property was damage and the cops where called.
3.) they are both responsible for that act.

With both having the same backgrounds, they would have to share the crimes between then and the punishments for such crimes. The act, the
results, and the responsibilities for the act are different events.


Once the act is over and the results are known, the law has to enforce the responsibilities of such act.

Bottom line, if you don't want to pay child support, don't have sex. But since a woman can have child with out her full consent, it is very harder to place the responsibility on a general population with out blanketing the out come.
 
Or... if you don't want to pay child support, be born a woman because you will never have to under current laws.

Don't get me wrong, I see your point. But a man should have the right to want nothing to do with his kid after it is born just like a woman currently has the right to do the same. How is the woman held responsible if she decides to give the child up? She isn't, but somehow the father is required to be held responsible depending on the mother's own decision.
 
Unless that person doesn't get a paycheck. Then he gets to be a (possible deadbeat) father without paying a cent, once again, putting more of a burden on the mother.
If this is the case, you can bet the mother isn;t going to go as far as getting a court order to try and prove he is the father. He clearly wants nothing to do with the kid. She clearly won't be getting a check. End of story, really.
 
I just feel a man should have more say in the out come of a child conceived. After all its 50% his genetic material making the kid. Most men loves not being involved in all the decision making. Most hate to hear the words of I am keeping it and you are going to pay. Myself I wouldn't give anyrhing for my son. Even though he can drive me to the point of wanting to toss him from a moving car.

Only way men can get more say is to sue and talk to their congressman or congresswoman and plead your case of the child is as much mine as her. Most men don't want to be bothered with a child as they see it as a life ended for their fun.
 
Or... if you don't want to pay child support, be born a woman because you will never have to under current laws.

Actually woman do have to pay child support in cases in which the mother does not have custody of the child.

But a man should have the right to want nothing to do with his kid after it is born just like a woman currently has the right to do the same.

So where is the risk to the male during pregnancy? I mean the result of sex can led to a pregnancy. Pregnancy will permanently reduce the mothers ability to get a good job, full salary, there are physical and mental risks with pregnancy, and most importantly, permanently damage her ability to take care of the child compare to the full input from both of the parents.

If you make it so the male can say, I want nothing to do with the child, after it is born, he has inherited zero risks from the act. With the above example, the male gets to break all the windows with out claiming responsibility. If the male does not want to pay for the child, then they do not have to have sex.

The emotional and physical risks of having the baby and choosing to give up something that is grown inside you is not a small task.
She isn't, but somehow the father is required to be held responsible depending on the mother's own decision.

The act is 100% responsibility of both parents. If the woman wants to say, we will just abort the child, it will have an emotional toll on both of them. But since the mother is required for the child to develop, more on the woman then man, there is zero choice in this. If the woman decides to give it up for adoption, it will have a emotional toll on both, but more on the woman.

What you are saying is this. If two people break windows, when the judge says both of them must pay 50% of their income for the next 50 years to repair the windows, one party can just say "sorry judge, I did break the windows, but I just dont want to pay for the act I commited".

The act committed was committed by both of them, not one. If the mother decides to take the responsibility on herself to deal with something that is happening inside her body, then it is her body and her right.

But it is never a choice, a choice means that you have option and you can choose between them. 100% of all abortions happen because there is no support network and there is no choice for the mother but to abort the child. If I tell you that you are going to jump out of a plane with out a parachute or you can take another persons parachute, but they will have to jump with out one, what would you do?

You guys make abortion sound like picking a flavor at an ice cream store. In reality, it is more like someone has a gun to your head, and tells you to choose between your life, or a complete stranger. Some of us will choose to kill themselves, but the majority will kill the stranger. The emotional toll from that choice, of "us or them", is very real and very damaging.
 
River,
Giving your kid up for adoption or not is a choice. I see this as one in the same as (for a man) being a part of your child's life and supporting him/her financially or not.

I am not necessarily advocating giving the man any say in whether a woman decides to have an abortion or not. But being a part of your kid's live, even if only monetarily, should be up to the man, just like it is ultimately up to the woman, no questions asked.

In California, a woman can "return" her baby to the hospital, I believe withing 72 hours and give it up for adoption if she doesn't want to care for it. The man, AFAIK, does not have the choice of walking away like the woman does.
 
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